WTOP: 19yr old killed by his own pit bulls

[Corcaigh]

a dog highly aggressive towards other dogs may be completely non-aggressive towards humans, and vice-versa.

'may' ... good luck with those odds.

[GoSkins561]

So we get rid of all high prey drive dogs?

First, it is untrue that certain breeds are unable to be properly socialized around other dogs. There is no evidence of that, because there are dogs of every breed that are properly trained.

Second, what is your solution to prevent dog-dog and dog-human attacks?

Facts are facts and you tend to watch to much TV. All dog owners are not Ceaser Milan and nor will they be, therefore the chances of the average joe pit bull owner training a Pit Bull to not be dog aggressive is highly unlikely.

Here is the difference between Pits and other dog aggressive breeds. Pits are extremally powerful, and lb for lb , I would guess there isn't a single breed out there that has the strength and tenacity of a Pit Bull. (maybe a Jack Russell)

If there were more owners like Adam and LJS there probably would be less issues with the breed. With that being said more people get comfortable with the " my Pit is so sweet " and "it's the owner not the breed" mentality they become complacent and ignore the obvious problems with the breed.

The 19 year old in the OP was killed because he got in the way of his own dogs being dog aggressive, had he let them chew his moms dog apart he would probably still be alive. The many babies and kid mentioned would be alive if thier parents and grandparents did not own pit bulls.

All of these attacks are not because the dog was beaten, abused, not trained properly, trained to fight etc. It's because the Pit did what Pit Bulls do.

My solution, again I don't care what other communities do, I would like to see Washington County outlaw them completely, unless you are willing to become certified and trained on Pit Bulls.

I don't want to take Adam and LJS's Pits away, I don't hve a problem with taking away the 15 year old douche bas pit because he thinks he looks hard.

[Koolblue13]

Dogs of any breed can be to dangerous, to count on individuals being accountable for them.

Who knows, they could have been inbreed puppy mill pitts or from somebodys back yard.

Doesn't make the breed bad. I lived with one of the most peaceful dogs ever who was a dopey 100lbs blue pitt. RIP because he was shot for being a pitt.

My large bully breed walks around town and nobody is afraid of her, nor should they be.

She was raised correctly.

[Koolblue13]

also funny is all the people who think what Vick did was no big deal, yet the entire blood line of the Pitt should be destroyed. Fail.

[GoSkins561]

JMS , go read the link and Adams post, Pit Bulls are in fact dog aggressive.

[Koolblue13]

JMS , go read the link and Adams post, Pit Bulls are in fact dog aggressive.

So are a lot of breeds.

[hockeysc23]

JMS , go read the link and Adams post, Pit Bulls are in fact dog aggressive.

I thought we were concerned that these dogs were attacking humans not other dogs?

And if you are trying to associate that a dog can be dog aggressive and therefore human aggressive that is not true.

"An opposing argument is that no breed is inherently aggressive towards humans and that regulating one breed simply moves the irresponsible owners to start focusing on breeds that haven't yet been regulated, moving the problem to other breeds. This is one of the positions taken by the American Veterinary Medical Association."

get rid of pittbulls and irresponsible breeders will move to another breed. Id rather try to fight off a 40-60lbs Pitt then a 100lbs Rottweiler.

[GoSkins561]

So are a lot of breeds.

I agree, however the power of the attack isn't comparable to other breeds.

[Koolblue13]

I agree, however the power of the attack isn't comparable to other breeds.

My dog has been attacked twice. Both Pitts. She almost killed both. It was awful to watch and scary to break apart.

[Heisenberg]

I agree, however the power of the attack isn't comparable to other breeds.

I'd say a Rott or German Shepherd could come pretty damn close.

[hockeysc23]

I'd say a Rott or German Shepherd could come pretty damn close.

The jaws of the Pitt Bull make it tough but its pretty much comparing getting attack by a tiger shark or great white. Both are going to suck.

Any of the bigger dogs (Rott, German Shepherd, or Doberman) have the type of weight behind them to do serious damage.

As mentioned before proper training is a must. Require certification to own a pitt but eliminating the whole breed shows ignorance.

[Heisenberg]

The jaws of the Pitt Bull make it tough but its pretty much comparing getting attack by a tiger shark or great white. Both are going to suck.

Any of the bigger dogs (Rott, German Shepherd, or Doberman) have the type of weight behind them to do serious damage.

As mentioned before proper training is a must. Require certification to own a pitt but eliminating the whole breed shows ignorance.

Quite frankly I'd be perfectly fine with requiring training/licenses to own any dog.

Far too many impulse adoptions/purchases by irresponsible people out there and it results in nothing but a ton of problems.

[hockeysc23]

Quite frankly I'd be perfectly fine with requiring training/licenses to own any dog.

Far too many impulse adoptions/purchases by irresponsible people out there and it results in nothing but a ton of problems.

Which I believe is a fine compromise and solution. Eliminating a breed due to irresponsible owners is not.

[dockeryfan]

You love to assume, and you really have no clue about my neighbors, how much he worked with the dog, and if the dog was socialized.

I am not assuming anything. Their dog attacked your dog, I believe. They were the owners, and they couldn't control their dog. The negligence is on their part, no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter how hard they tried to do anything. They failed. No assumption.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Very sad story and i would def agree with Duckus!

[GoSkins561]

I am not assuming anything. Their dog attacked your dog, I believe. They were the owners, and they couldn't control their dog. The negligence is on their part, no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter how hard they tried to do anything. They failed. No assumption.

You are actually helping me prove my point. Very few people should be allowed to own a pit bull, they can jump(climb) 8' fences if they have thier mind set on it, they can pretty much kill any other breed of dog, owners tend to not take enough precautions to prevent kids and other dogs from being attacked.

Agree, it was thier fault, however they had a fenced in yard, and it was the dogs natural temperment as a Pit Bull that led to it jumping the fence and attacking my dog, no questions asked or butt sniffing(normal Pit Bull behavior when acting aggressive towards another dog.

Lets make a list of rules for Pit Bull owners.

1. You must walk the Pit Bull on a leash regardless of whether your back yard is fenced in or not.

2. Fenced in yards must have at least an 8' tall fence and be covered with barb wire.

3. In order to own a Pit Bull, you need to be trained to an equal or greater than Ceaser Milan.

[GoSkins561]

I'd say a Rott or German Shepherd could come pretty damn close.

Check out this video, I think this is a great display of the Pits amazing strength. I agree Rottis and Shepards are powerful, as mentioned by Hockey, the jaw strength is incredible. This video shows how determined Pit Bulls can be, pretty cool video showcasing thier strength.

[hockeysc23]

Check out this video, I think this is a great display of the Pits amazing strength. I agree Rottis and Shepards are powerful, as mentioned by Hockey, the jaw strength is incredible. This video shows how determined Pit Bulls can be, pretty cool video showcasing thier strength.

Probably not the best video to show because while it does display the power of the pitt bull it also shows lots of pitt bulls hanging out in the sidelines watching and the differences between properly trained pitt bulls and the owners several people on here have encountered.

If Pitt Bulls are so aggressive you would have to assume at this big events all they do is breakup dog fights correct?

[GoSkins561]

If Pitt Bulls are so aggressive you would have to assume at this big events all they do is breakup dog fights correct?

Why do you think they are on a leash?

Why do you think the dogs doing the tug of war had thier owners standing behind them huge leather harness strapped around thier chest? My guess is, if they were to let thier dogs go when they are that amped up, they will fight 99.999 percent of the time.

[hockeysc23]

Why do you think they are on a leash?

Why do you think the dogs doing the tug of war had thier owners standing behind them huge leather harness strapped around thier chest? My guess is, if they were to let thier dogs go when they are that amped up, they will fight 99.999 percent of the time.

Shouldn't all dogs be on leaches? i guess I get confused because you and several others portray pitt bulls as such a vicious breed, that is dog aggressive that they cannot wait to attack others. It's in their nature and its not a matter of if but when.

But when proper pitt bulls are shown that are trained even in competitions you would assume that a dog as vicious and aggressive as pitt bulls are made out to be that they would be carrying their owner with them to attack the dog next to them. And it isn't the case.

[GoSkins561]

Shouldn't all dogs be on leaches? i guess I get confused because you and several others portray pitt bulls as such a vicious breed, that is dog aggressive that they cannot wait to attack others. It's in their nature and its not a matter of if but when.

But when proper pitt bulls are shown that are trained even in competitions you would assume that a dog as vicious and aggressive as pitt bulls are made out to be that they would be carrying their owner with them to attack the dog next to them. And it isn't the case.

Pit Bulls are Dog Aggressive, from a post earlier

This source is not biased, they are trying to right fit potential dog owners with Pit Bulls.

This is what it says, oh yeah did I meniton my dog had it's ass kicked by a Pit half her size in less than 10 seconds, and ended up with 100 stitches?

http://www.rescueeverydog.org/pitbull_breed.html

What would be the ideal owner for this breed?

The ideal owner of a pit bull is an extremely responsible person committed to the care, training and exercise of their dog. Such an owner should be knowledgeable about the breed (or at least willing to learn), very aware of the dog aggressive but people loving nature of the breed, and dedicated to protecting not only their dog, but also the breed as a whole from the continuing media hysteria generated by bad press and bad owners. The ideal owner of a pit bull would never allow their dog to roam the neighborhood, be off leash in a public place or around strange dogs, and would not leave their adult pit bull alone and unsupervised with another dog of any breed, since fights can start between unsupervised dogs, especially dogs of the same sex, and such fights can have serious consequences. This owner would spay/neuter, make sure their dog remains socialized with all types of people, contain their dog securely when not supervised by an adult, obedience train their dog, and insure that their dog is well exercised every day. This owner would NOT be looking for a guard dog, as pit bulls are typically very people friendly and not naturally inclined toward "man work." This owner would either have no other dogs or an altered dog of opposite sex, since many pit bulls are same sex aggressive and can be placed with a non-dominant dog of opposite sex.

Is this breed good with other dogs in general?

The short answer is no. Developed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, most pit bulls are dog aggressive, at least to some degree. Some pit bulls will simply not tolerate any other dogs, regardless of sex. A few pit bulls will remain dog friendly their entire lives, but they are a minority.The majority of pit bulls are at least same sex aggressive and as adults will not do well with other dogs of the same sex or those that are "pushy" with them, although as pups they may get along fine (this can be very misleading to a novice pit bull owner). Pit bulls will commonly start developing signs of dog aggression between the ages of 8 months and 2 years, although it can develop at any age and can come on either gradually or quite suddenly. It is important to note that many pit bulls do not display the "typical" signs of dog aggression before a fight. They may not growl, bark, or posture at all, but simply alert and raise up on their toes. Owners of dog aggressive pit bulls learn to "read" their dogs and recognize the subtle signs indicating impending dog aggression. Training will not eliminate dog aggression in the pit bull but, when combined with responsibility and vigilance, training can bring these natural tendencies under control in on-leash situations. Where housemates are concerned, if one is a pit bull, extra care should be taken to prevent tension over food, desirable treats (like bones), and favored toys. These items are often "triggers" for spats or fights between dogs sharing the same house and owners should be very aware of them. This is also the reason that an adult pit bull should NOT be left alone with housemates or other dogs. Due to their fighting heritage, many pit bulls do not recognize signs of submission given by a dog they are fighting and, if they are unsupervised, the results can be disastrous. It should be noted that many breeds have dog aggressive tendencies, and leaving any such breed unsupervised with another dog, especially a dog of the same sex, can lead to a tragedy.

From a Pit Bull owner

While I disagree with GoSkins561 on a lot of views when it comes to pits (we have already gone around a few times during past official semi-annual ES pit bull threads ) he is correct on his point concerning the pit bull breeds and dog aggression.

Dog aggression is not an issue of socialization, though it can help minimize the effects depending on the individual dog. For example, socialization may help with a pit bull whose level of dog aggression is "tolerant" (versus friendly), but is unlikely to have an effect on one which is full blown dog aggressive.

It is important for all dog owners, but especially those who own terriers, specifically pit bulls, to realize that dog aggression is not a yes or no proposition. A dog might be completely dog friendly, tolerant but not friendly, or outright aggressive. They also may fall into the "selective" category, which it sounds like his neighbor's dog did - friendly with most, aggressive towards others. This last one is the type that is most dangerous since it is unpredicatable (an outright dog aggressive animal can be controlled since the owner knows it is aggressive).

A good pit bull owner will keep this in mind and take common sense precautions. For example, my 4 year old pit is very friendly with other dogs, even strange ones (as well as being fairly submissive). However, I never assume that will always be the case, so she is never out of the yard without a leash and I keep a soft-muzzle in my back pocket if there is a good chance she will encounter another dog and begins to display signs of getting ramped up (I have not had to use it yet).

It is also important to remember that dog agression and human aggression are not the same things - a dog highly aggressive towards other dogs may be completely non-aggressive towards humans, and vice-versa.

[hockeysc23]

Pit Bulls are Dog Aggressive, from a post earlier

This source is not biased, they are trying to right fit potential dog owners with Pit Bulls.

This is what it says, oh yeah did I meniton my dog had it's ass kicked by a Pit half her size in less than 10 seconds, and ended up with 100 stitches?

From a Pit Bull owner

Yes we have all heard the story behind why you are against Pitt Bulls. I also posted quotes from professionals that deem it is because of the nurture of the dog not the nature that they snap.

It's going to go around and around as an agree to disagree issue. I think you just need to take one step back on your stance that the breed should be removed due to your very opinionated view based on what happened to your dog.

I mean look at the statistics posted a few posts back ... .004% or something of all dogs .... you avoid evidence that doesn't support your claim.

[GoSkins561]

Yes we have all heard the story behind why you are against Pitt Bulls. I also posted quotes from professionals that deem it is because of the nurture of the dog not the nature that they snap.

It's going to go around and around as an agree to disagree issue. I think you just need to take one step back on your stance that the breed should be removed due to your very opinionated view based on what happened to your dog.

I have done plenty of research to form my opinion, my opinion is, I do not want another Pit as a neighbor, they make bad pets in your normal neighborhoods where people are trying to raise family pets and children. In the past two weeks, in the immediate DC area, there has been one fellow Redskins fan killed by his own dogs and a 3 day old snatched and killed from it's crib, both by Pit Bulls.

It's not like we are making this stuff up, if there were more owners like Adam and LJS, there probably would be fewer Pit Bull attacks, unfortunately as mentioned in a previous post, people do not pay close enough attention to thier Pits then people and other animals get killed. There is obviously something wrong with the breed if people should be doing what Adam does and carry a soft muzzle with him when he takes his dog on walks, the great news is, his dog appears to be stable, he has obviously put the necasary 250% into the dog and he realizes it's strength.

There are way to many Pit owners that put 100 percent into raising a nice well behaved family dog, but obviously that is not enough. All Pit owners need to be like Adam and LJS. Until I stop seeing the idiots with thier hats on side ways walking around with Pit Bulls on super heavy industrial chains, I won't agree that enough is being done to control the Pit Bull population and who is allowed to own them. Until something happens, we will continue to read about Pit Bulls killing children for no reason other than what appears to be jealousy and sudden urge to bite.

[SKiNz Jus 2 sick]

Man that's sad. Like someone else has said, just another reason not to own a pitbull. Do people not understand that they're NEVER right in the head? I get so tired of hearing the "it's how you raise them" excuse. That's a load of garbage.

as far as pits go i got 2 of them sittin right here next to me and i swear if any1 of them ever bit me they would regret it.

but all that aside NOT all pits are dangerous, i was walking them through the neighborhood one day when i let them inside and found a Real estate agent standing on the steps going to the basement and all they did was run up and sit down and wait to be petted

its really about how you raise your dogs any dog could be vicious

[Duckus]

I have done plenty of research to form my opinion, my opinion is, I do not want another Pit as a neighbor, they make bad pets in your normal neighborhoods where people are trying to raise family pets and children. In the past two weeks, in the immediate DC area, there has been one fellow Redskins fan killed by his own dogs and a 3 day old snatched and killed from it's crib, both by Pit Bulls.

It's not like we are making this stuff up, if there were more owners like Adam and LJS, there probably would be fewer Pit Bull attacks, unfortunately as mentioned in a previous post, people do not pay close enough attention to thier Pits then people and other animals get killed. There is obviously something wrong with the breed if people should be doing what Adam does and carry a soft muzzle with him when he takes his dog on walks, the great news is, his dog appears to be stable, he has obviously put the necasary 250% into the dog and he realizes it's strength.

There are way to many Pit owners that put 100 percent into raising a nice well behaved family dog, but obviously that is not enough. All Pit owners need to be like Adam and LJS. Until I stop seeing the idiots with thier hats on side ways walking around with Pit Bulls on super heavy industrial chains, I won't agree that enough is being done to control the Pit Bull population and who is allowed to own them. Until something happens, we will continue to read about Pit Bulls killing children for no reason other than what appears to be jealousy and sudden urge to bite.

.0004%

What if we took this stance for all things? More than .0004% of gun owners are completely irresponsible. These irresponsible people lead to THOUSANDS of deaths per year. Children and innocent citizens are the victims many times.

The way to solve it is regulation not banning it completely. I don't want guns to be outlawed, even if they are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Instead I want people to have to have background checks and be required to have a license. I want to same for dog owners whose pets are over 40 pounds. Heck - make it 20 pounds.

If you are for outlawing everything dangerous to innocent citizens, then i hope you are not stopping at Pit Bulls.