WTOP: 19yr old killed by his own pit bulls

[hockeysc23]

Yes, I saw the unofficial stats. They in no way refute that Pit Bulls are responsible for more injuries and deaths than any other breed.

Only .00001% of cobras on Earth are responsible for human deaths, so they're probably no more dangerous than a black snake right?

Since most attacks are lumped in with a mixed Pitt you cannot say for certain what made that dog tick, well actually you can the way the dog was raised or its lack of proper training.

When the media comes out and blasts cobras for basically every snake death then your analogy has weight.

[kubstix]

Yes, I saw the unofficial stats. They in no way refute that Pit Bulls are responsible for more injuries and deaths than any other breed.

Only .00001% of cobras on Earth are responsible for human deaths, so they're probably no more dangerous than a black snake right?

So wait then.....can you agree that German Shepperds, Rottys, and Dobbermans are also just as lethal as a pit?

[Stophovr6]

But numbers can show you .... .0004%

What does that tell me? That's my chances of dying? I don't care what my chances of death are. I'm sure i have a higher probability of getting into a fatal car accident. If i can succefully lower my chances of being attacked by a dog by staying away from those that pose a threat, that's what I'm going to do.

Keep getting pitbulls and rottweilers, I don't care, but don't be offended when I cross the street to stay away. I don't know you from any irresponsible asshats walking their uncontrolled dogs.

[Stophovr6]

True. And just for the record, I don’t have a Pit Bull. I have a Pit Mix (about 50%) myself, but have volunteered a lot of time at shelters for several years.

In your opinion are most Pit Bull owners in the US responsible or irresponsible?

Given their numbers in shelters across the US, I'd say most are irresponsible.

[Duckus]

Yes, I saw the unofficial stats. They in no way refute that Pit Bulls are responsible for more injuries and deaths than any other breed.

Only .00001% of cobras on Earth are responsible for human deaths, so they're probably no more dangerous than a black snake right?

I agree. But the logical jump people make from that stat is the problem.

Pit Bulls (and other big breeds) are more dangerous than other dogs. Correct. Agreed. They account for more attacks.

A majority of Pit Bulls are therefore dangerous…….uhhhhh, what? That logic jump using the statistics on attacks is flawed. And is happens over and over again. Yes, they are MORE dangerous, but when you look at pit bull population size (millions) and incidents - a vast majority are NOT dangerous.

Just because something is more dangerous than something else, does not mean you can make that logical jump.

Let us say that riding the bus in a city had more deaths than riding the metro. So, riding the bus is more dangerous than riding the metro. I can't just take that statistic and claim – “all bus rides are extremely dangerous and will probably lead to your death.”

[Botched]

What we are saying is- to have any dog with a high prey drive, or stubborn dog-you must properly train your dog, and be properly trained. You must understand what situations you can and cannot put your dog in. That as an owner of one of these dogs (pit or not), you can't just let them roam around, you can't feed them with a child right there, you probably shouldn't have them around smaller animals...etc.

That is the base of the problem, the people who don't get it are not good owners, and their dogs get in trouble. The grandma who fed the dog w/ the toddler right there and the kid got attacked- she's an idiot.

I don't care what kind of dog you have-if you sit here and say your dog is perfect, well...your dumb.(sorry, couldnt' think of a nicer way to put it)

Apparently you haven't met my dog

Really all I'm saying is that pit bulls have proven over and over that they are the most dangerous dog on Earth. Good ownership obviously significantly reduces the chance of an attack, but even with good ownership and training that threat is greater than with any other dog.

I have a hard time believing that in every incidence of a pit bull attack, that the owner was grossly negligent.

Pits are a beautiful, intelligent breed of dog but they are also a dangerous one.

[Botched]

So wait then.....can you agree that German Shepperds, Rottys, and Dobbermans are also just as lethal as a pit?

Hang on let me check the numbers here before I decide....

Ok checked em. Sorry, no. Shepherds, Rottys, and Dobermans are not NEARLY as lethal than Pit Bulls. The day that any one of those breeds comes close to seriously injuring and killing as many people as pit bulls we can talk.

[Duckus]

Given their numbers in shelters across the US, I'd say most are irresponsible.

Okay –

If most pit bull owners are irresponsible AND pit bulls have the genetic trait in them that drives them to kill and attack (like many have claimed here) and that it is their nature to eventually snap no matter how nice they seem…….

Then why out of an estimated million(s) pit bulls – are there on average 15 deaths a year.

Something in that formula is not adding up –

Irresponsible owners + genetic dog to kill and attack + MILLIONS of pit bulls = 15 incidents…….

I actually agree with you – many Pit Bull owners are irresponsible. My point is, maybe they are not genetic beasts. If so – wouldn’t that number be hundreds or even thousands with millions of irresponsible pit owners??

[hockeysc23]

Hang on let me check the numbers here before I decide....

Ok checked em. Sorry, no. Shepherds, Rottys, and Dobermans are not NEARLY as lethal than Pit Bulls. The day that any one of those breeds comes close to seriously injuring and killing as many people as pit bulls we can talk.

And when you eliminate the pit bull breed guess what dogs bad owners will flock to next?

You really don't think a 100lbs Rottie is as dangerous as a 40lbs pitt bull? Both can be disastrous in the wrong persons hands.

Thus the only common denominator is the owner. Bad owner = bad dog. Breed doesn't = bad dog.

[Botched]

When the media comes out and blasts cobras for basically every snake death then your analogy has weight.

Pit bulls are only blasted for the dog attacks that they are responsible for, which is most of them.

Once again, there is no anti-pit bull media conspiracy, I promise. You hear alot of stories about pit bull attacks because there are alot of them.

[GoSkins561]

True. And just for the record, I don’t have a Pit Bull. I have a Pit Mix (about 50%) myself, but have volunteered a lot of time at shelters for several years.

In your opinion are most Pit Bull owners in the US responsible or irresponsible?

95% irresponsible

The majority of the breed needs to go away, they need to become more rare of a breed, bred from the best of blood lines. I mean seriously there is a reason why these dogs end up in the pound, I am not sure why the pound showcases them and tries to get rid of them.

This is the very dog that attacked my dog, 100 stitches in less than 10 seconds, a little under two years ago.

http://your4state.com/content/fulltext/?cid=63362

Sweet Little Princess :laugh: (Pit Bull / Lab mix) my ass, pet of the week :laugh:, sweetest little girl :laugh: . I have seen this dog many times, and she doesn't have a ounce of lab in her. The owner claimed to me she was pure bred. My guess is, my former neighbors wife made him get rid of her, good for her. He would get so pissed off at me because I would print literature and drop it off for her to read when he wasn't home. The day they moved was such a great day.

[Duckus]

95% irresponsible

So you can answer this question as well then -

Okay –

If most pit bull owners (95%) according to you are irresponsible AND pit bulls have the genetic trait in them that drives them to kill and attack (like many have claimed here) and that it is their nature to eventually snap no matter how nice they seem (which is your claim)…….

Then why out of an estimated million(s) pit bulls – are there on average 15 deaths a year.

Something in that formula is not adding up and you have yet to address it at all–

This is your formula -

95% irresponsible owners + a dog with the genetic trait to kill, attack, and snap + MILLIONS of pit bulls in US = an average 15 fatal incidents……....

Explain how that formula works. Because it makes no sense. Based on your ideas - that formula should lead to thousands of deaths per year.

[PCS]

:rubeyes: Memo to me. Look in to disabling the larger than life fonts.

[GoSkins561]

So you can answer this question as well then -

Okay –

If most pit bull owners (95%) according to you are irresponsible AND pit bulls have the genetic trait in them that drives them to kill and attack (like many have claimed here) and that it is their nature to eventually snap no matter how nice they seem (which is your claim)…….

Then why out of an estimated million(s) pit bulls – are there on average 15 deaths a year.

Something in that formula is not adding up and you have yet to address it at all–

95% irresponsible owners + a dog with the genetic trait to kill, attack, and snap + MILLIONS of pit bulls in US = 15 incidents…….

Explain how that formula works.

Dude a fact is a fact, I don't care about the percentages, it happens, Pit Bulls are responsible for more fatal attacks than any other breed(period). To many idiots own them, and they should be killed off until only people like LJS and Adam can own them. Somebody posted a fact the other day, 23 % of the dogs in pounds are Pits, I wonder why, they don't get there because they always act sweet like poor little princess.

Wait until you have kids, I bet you will reconsider owning a Pit Bull based on these stories you have read in this thread. When you have kids, you want a dog that isn't capable of crushing a kids skull in one bite. You are trying to divert attention from the real problem, Pit Bulls are dangerous, if you own kids, and have a Pit, you are playing with fire.

[GoSkins561]

:rubeyes: Memo to me. Look in to disabling the larger than life fonts.

:laugh:

Is there any way of figuring out if the victim in the OP was a member of ES?

[Botched]

I agree. But the logical jump people make from that stat is the problem.

Pit Bulls (and other big breeds) are more dangerous than other dogs. Correct. Agreed. They account for more attacks.

A majority of Pit Bulls are therefore dangerous…….uhhhhh, what? That logic jump using the statistics on attacks is flawed. And is happens over and over again. Yes, they are MORE dangerous, but when you look at pit bull population size (millions) and incidents - a vast majority are NOT dangerous.

Just because something is more dangerous than something else, does not mean you can make that logical jump.

Let us say that riding the bus in a city had more deaths than riding the metro. So, riding the bus is more dangerous than riding the metro. I can't just take that statistic and claim – “all bus rides are extremely dangerous and will probably lead to your death.”

I didn't say a majority of pit bulls are dangerous, and I certainly didn't say any one pit will probably cause anyone's death. In fact, almost all of the pit bulls I have met have been very friendly dogs. I pat them on the head, scratch their ears, and tell them they're a good dog. Pit bull puppies are absolutely adorable. This does not change the fact that they are notorious for killing people.

If all pit bulls ceased to exist tomorrow, the only lasting consequence would be that fewer people would be killed. The world would keep turning, and people would simply get other breeds. Why would it be such a travesty if they weren't allowed as pets?

[hockeysc23]

Dude a fact is a fact, I don't care how frequently it happens, Pit Bulls are responsible for more fatal attacks than any other breed. To many idiots own them, and they should be killed off until only people like LJS and Adam can own them. Somebody posted a fact the other day, 23 % of the dogs in pounds are Pits, I wonder why, they don't get there because they always act sweet like poor little princess.

Wait until you have kids, I bet you will reconsider owning a Pit Bull based on these stories you have read in this thread. When you have kids, you want a dog that isn't capable of crushing a kids skull in one bite. You are trying to divert attention from the real problem, Pit Bulls are dangerous, if you own kids, and have a Pit, you are playing with fire.

If you own an improperly trained dog regardless of breed you are playing with fire but way to dodge the statistics. Bravo. Transitioning this off on to trying to protect your kids shows the lack of strength in the anti-pitt bull argument that has been drummed up.

[Stophovr6]

I actually agree with you – many Pit Bull owners are irresponsible. My point is, maybe they are not genetic beasts. If so – wouldn’t that number be hundreds or even thousands with millions of irresponsible pit owners??

I can clearly see that they are genetic beasts and I'm not talking about temperemant. I'm talking about size and strength and i'm talking about staying away from animals I can't trust.

[Duckus]

Dude a fact is a fact, I don't care about the percentages, it happens, Pit Bulls are responsible for more fatal attacks than any other breed(period). To many idiots own them, and they should be killed off until only people like LJS and Adam can own them. Somebody posted a fact the other day, 23 % of the dogs in pounds are Pits, I wonder why, they don't get there because they always act sweet like poor little princess.

Wait until you have kids, I bet you will reconsider owning a Pit Bull based on these stories you have read in this thread. When you have kids, you want a dog that isn't capable of crushing a kids skull in one bite. You are trying to divert attention from the real problem, Pit Bulls are dangerous, if you own kids, and have a Pit, you are playing with fire.

Nice dodge – but you did not answer the question.

You claim 95% of pit bull owners are irresponsible.

You claim they have a genetic trait to kill, attack, and fight – no matter how sweet or nice they are. It is their genetic nature and they will snap at some point.

You can’t lay this out as fact – then turn around and say you don’t care about stats. Look at them. Something in YOUR argument is flawed. If not, there would be thousands of deaths a year.

You can have any personal feelings you want on any subject you want. But don’t come on here and lay down everything as a fact, tell everyone else they are wrong, and then when presented with statics say “oh I don’t care about stats.”

[GoSkins561]

If you own an improperly trained dog regardless of breed you are playing with fire but way to dodge the statistics. Bravo. Transitioning this off on to trying to protect your kids shows the lack of strength in the anti-pitt bull argument that has been drummed up.

The statistics are Pit Bulls are responsible for 60% of all fatal dog attacks, I am not dodging the statistics, Duckus is trying to say it is okay because it happens so infrequently, it isn't the dogs are dangerous to otehr dogs and people. When they bite, they shred, when they want to kill, they have the power to kill and kill quickly. AS seen in the op, they will turn on thier owners and they snatch babies out of thier cribs for no reason, what is there to argue with. You can take any statistic and water it down, I don't see his point.

[GoSkins561]

Nice dodge – but you did not answer the question.

You claim 95% of pit bull owners are irresponsible.

You claim they have a genetic trait to kill, attack, and fight – no matter how sweet or nice they are. It is their genetic nature and they will snap at some point.

The SPCA was trying to convince the public Princess was sweet and she snapped, hell she snapped when she was a puppy.

[Duckus]

The statistics are Pit Bulls are responsible for 60% of all fatal dog attacks, I am not dodging the statistics, Duckus is trying to say it is okay because it happens so infrequently, it isn't the dogs are dangerous to otehr dogs and people. When they bite, they shred, when they want to kill, they have the power to kill and kill quickly. AS seen in the op, they will turn on thier owners and they snatch babies out of thier cribs for no reason, what is there to argue with. You can take any statistic and water it down, I don't see his point.

Never said it was okay and I think it is horrible. I have advocated licenses, registration, and mandatory training. I don’t think 15 deaths a year, out of MILLIONS of pit bulls require the government to destroy an entire breed of dog.

[Botched]

And when you eliminate the pit bull breed guess what dogs bad owners will flock to next?

You really don't think a 100lbs Rottie is as dangerous as a 40lbs pitt bull? Both can be disastrous in the wrong persons hands.

Thus the only common denominator is the owner. Bad owner = bad dog. Breed doesn't = bad dog.

There are bad owners for every breed of dog. In fact, given that far more people own Rottweilers than Pit bulls, I think it's safe to assume that there are more negligent Rottie owners out there than negligent Pit owners. And yet, there aren't nearly as many deaths from those 100lb Rotties. It's no mystery why.

[hockeysc23]

There are bad owners for every breed of dog. In fact, given that far more people own Rottweilers than Pit bulls, I think it's safe to assume that there are more negligent Rottie owners out there than negligent Pit owners. And yet, there aren't nearly as many deaths from those 100lb Rotties. It's no mystery why.

Source?

[drtdrums]

The problem is that all dogs are, essentially, biological machines. Their actions result from two factors -- their breeding, and their environment.

As someone who has dealt with a large number of dogs, some of them "dangerous" (I even fostered a wolf/german shepherd mix), I can only say that Pits are bred for aggression and violence. No Pit, however, is born as a "bad dog" -- Owners who don't know better make them that way. A Pit needs a lot of attention and a dominating force that he defers to entirely. Most owners just aren't capable of that. It is entirely possible for a normal, average person to turn their Pit into a monster by simply not doing the right things.

Pit Bulls are like fire...they are incredibly dangerous when uncontrolled (and it takes a good owner to control one), but they are also incredibly rewarding when in a stable environment. There are few dog breeds that are so openly affectionate and loyal.

Kinda like dating a crazy chick. She might drive you up the wall, but....