GoSkins561 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 as far as pits go i got 2 of them sittin right here next to me and i swear if any1 of them ever bit me they would regret it. I hate to break it to you, if your two Pits for some reason to turn on you one day, there is a very good chance they will come out on top. You better be at least ready for one hell of a fight or own a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 .0004% What if we took this stance for all things? More than .0004% of gun owners are completely irresponsible. These irresponsible people lead to THOUSANDS of deaths per year. Children are many of those. The way to solve it is regulation not banning it. I don't want guns to be outlawed, even if they are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Instead I want people to have to have background checks and be required to have a license. I want to same for dog owners whose pets are over 40 pounds. Not all dogs require the same amount of energy, training or attention that a Pit needs. You show me more owners like Adam, he obviously has a good handle on everything about his Pit, I am fine with the breed. Goiod luck coming up with a substantial amount of Adams though. edit - you obviously didn't read what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Not all dogs require the same amount of energy, training or attention that a Pit needs. You show me more owners like Adam, he obviously has a good handle on everything about his Pit, I am fine with the breed. Goiod luck coming up with a substantial amount of Adams though.edit - you obviously didn't read what I said. Most owners do have a good handle. Are there bad ones? Yes, of course. Are those bad owners a big problem? Yes. But you still can't get around the .0004% figure. If the breed is SO deadly, SO programed to kill, will snap at ANY time and if even the best Pit Bulls are uncontrollable..... Then why are only .0004% involved in fatal attacks? Explain how it can be such a huge genetic trait to kill and attack and that most owners are irresponsible when only .0004% of them are involved. Statistically that makes NO SENSE. If it was nature - would it not be 10%, 20%, 30%? Hell, if it was the nature to kill and most owners are irresponsible (like you claim) - the the number should be well over 50%. We are talking about a fraction of 1%. How is that the genetic nature of the animal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Most owners do have a good handle. Are there bad ones? Yes, of course. Are those bad owners a big problem? Yes.But you still can't get around the .0004% figure. If the breed is SO deadly, SO programed to kill, will snap at ANY time and if even the best Pit Bulls are uncontrollable..... Then why are only .0004% involved in fatal attacks? Explain how it can be such a huge genetic trait to kill and attack and that most owners are irresponsible when only .0004% of them are involved. Statistically that makes NO SENSE. If it was nature - would it not be 10%, 20%, 30%? Hell, if it was the nature to kill and most owners are irresponsible (like you claim) - the the number should be well over 50%. We are talking about a fraction of 1%. How is that the genetic nature of the animal? because it happened to his dog. Perception over evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKiNz Jus 2 sick Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I hate to break it to you, if your two Pits for some reason to turn on you one day, there is a very good chance they will come out on top. You better be at least ready for one hell of a fight or own a gun. they know better then that they wont bite the hand that feeds them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamB Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thank you for the kind words GoSkin. Now, time to disagree with ya on something Earlier, in regards to the weight pull video, you stated that you believed that if not for the heavy leather straps, etc. 99% of them would begin to fight. Now, I am not going to pretend that I know how things are in Poland (where the video was taken), but in the U.S., pits that show dog aggression are generally not allowed anywhere near a weight pull comp. One of the reasons that weight pulls have become very popular among owners is that it is a way for their dogs to utilize their physical and mental traits (strength and determination) in a manner other than in the ring. It is similar to other working breeds - if you keep them engaged in activity, they are less likely to become bored, thus destructive (mine got bored once and ate a quarter sheet of drywall :doh: no weight pulls for her tho, her hips are not that great). Disc and flyball are also popular. As such, dogs that are likely to go hot around other dogs are not often welcome at the events, plus there are usually other breeds there as well. As an added bonus, its lets those owners who got a pit to appear cool to gain bragging rights without becoming involved in dog fighting, hence its heavy promotion in some cities around the country. The heavy leather harnesses (heavy nylon is also common) is to help protect the dog from injury during the pull by distributing the weight, not to restrain the dogs themselves. The dogs being on leash is a general practice at dog events, no matter the breed, and most dogs like tug-o-war as a form of play Please keep in mind that many pits, even some of those used in fighting (see some of Vick's dogs as examples) are not necessarily going to be dog aggressive, and even those that are can be maintained and controlled. It does not take a Ceaser Milan to do this, but pit owners (hell, dog owners in general) do need to take the time to educate themselves. I had a leg (paw) up on some due to growing up around terriers (Wheatons and JRTs, both of which can be dog aggressive/high prey drive) and Aussies (extremely high energy), as well as having owned an extremely large, strong dog before (Bullmastiff), but anyone can learn what they need to know, it just takes the will to do so. And of course, none of this has to do with aggression towards humans, which is a seperate form of aggression that must be handled in different ways. Training (both owner and dog) and socialization plays a MUCH larger role in human aggression, and a APBT/Amstaff that is human aggressive cannot be tolerated - they are behaving outside the breed temperment standards and should be addressed by a professional, this includes those that are territorial or aggressive towards strangers. Pits are not protection dogs, and should not be viewed as such. Licensing, mandatory training (owner and dog), random household checks by local AC (which also generally needs more training, plus more funding), better regulation/inspection at dog parks, etc. all can go along way to solving the issues, and should be required for all breeds and owners. Personally, I would love to see required microchipping and owner records tied to driver licenses (lets see if they let Fifi run loose when it is gonna be points on their license), but never seem to get many to agree with me on that one. I would also like to see more state adopt/enforce laws similar to "Lillian's Law" here in Texas which makes it a felony if an owner's dog seriously injures or kills (with only 3 or 4 exceptions written into the law, such as the victim being attacked during the commission of a crime). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubstix Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Don't even try to argue. He had a bad experience due to idiot owners and now pitbulls are the devil. So what happens when you drink sour milk by accident? Are you going to stop drinking/eating anything that is made from dairy products? The only thing you have provided to this thread is nothing but opinion and a basis on a bad experience. You claim it's not the breed, but all of a sudden stories are changing and maybe the owners should of had a bigger fence, or maybe the owners should of paid attention to their dog outside every once in awhile. Your story has changed 50 times in this thread and you need to finally admit that your wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Unbelieveable. Actually, really not too unvbelievable when it comes to pit pulls. This breed is the worst of the wosrt. Shere there way be a few outlier pitbulls here and there who do no have the genetic makeup/personality of a monster (my of my guy friends has a bull I'm in love with and have wanted for so long with my dad telling me delll no every which way I try) Guess I'll just have to stick w Cerman Shephards and bratty basset hounds...they make my life happy enough. I would love to have my guy friends' pitbull for a while, but even then, I wouldn' have her around children at all. I think a lot of people out there really don't understand the implications/inherent nature of the dog they own and it can oftem lead to sad tragdies like that. That really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Unbelieveable. Actually, really not too unvbelievable when it comes to pit pulls. This breed is the worst of the wosrt. Shere there way be a few outlier pitbulls here and there who do no have the genetic makeup/personality of a monster (my of my guy friends has a bull I'm in love with and have wanted for so long with my dad telling me delll no every which way I try) Guess I'll just have to stick w Cerman Shephards and bratty basset hounds...they make my life happy enough. I would love to have my guy friends' pitbull for a while, but even then, I wouldn' have her around children at all. I think a lot of people out there really don't understand the implications/inherent nature of the dog they own and it can oftem lead to sad tragdies like that. That really sucks. read the stats not the media hype. Thanks but way to play into it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Don't even try to argue. He had a bad experience due to idiot owners and now pitbulls are the devil. So what happens when you drink sour milk by accident? Are you going to stop drinking/eating anything that is made from dairy products? The only thing you have provided to this thread is nothing but opinion and a basis on a bad experience. You claim it's not the breed, but all of a sudden stories are changing and maybe the owners should of had a bigger fence, or maybe the owners should of paid attention to their dog outside every once in awhile. Your story has changed 50 times in this thread and you need to finally admit that your wrong. We get it. Your pit bull hasn't mauled anyone yet, therefore, all pit bulls are friendly and not the least bit dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 read the stats not the media hype. Thanks but way to play into it all. What stats are those? The ones that prove without a doubt that pit bulls seriously injure and kill far more people than any other breed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 My dog doesn't need a fence ( she thinks there is an undergrouind electric fence), the neighbors put would stand at the fence, with it's feet on the top rail looking for my dog all of the time. The other dog jumped the fence and went straight on my dog, pretty much without any ass sniffing. I wish I could find the before and after pictures my vet snapped. First- YES your dog does need a fence. Every dog should have a yard with a fence- although some people are ok to have small dogs in apts. Here you are going off on all these bad dog owners and you are arrogant enough to say your dog doesn't need a fence? The rest of your post I don't get. if ther was no fence, how did the neighbors dog attack yours by jumping a fence? Was it a kennel their dog was in? If you and your neighbor both had 6 ft fences- the attack would not have happened. My dog has been attacked twice. Both Pitts. She almost killed both. It was awful to watch and scary to break apart. Same with my dog. I've had her out for walks when other dogs have come up to her and tried to start a fight. I can only hold her back so much. She won't start a fight, but she sure will end one. Sad part is, if Im out walking her on a leash, and a small dog starts a fight with her- she could easily tear them apart. Then I'm the one that would be in trouble. Which is total BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 What stats are those? The ones that prove without a doubt that pit bulls seriously injure and kill far more people than any other breed? .0004% look back a couple posts. That's the percentage of Pitt Bulls that have done fatal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 We get it. Your pit bull hasn't mauled anyone yet, therefore, all pit bulls are friendly and not the least bit dangerous. Here is what some of you anti pit bull people don't realize. I don't hear any of us pit bull owners on here saying they are 100% perfect and would never do anything wrong. What we are saying is- to have any dog with a high prey drive, or stubborn dog-you must properly train your dog, and be properly trained. You must understand what situations you can and cannot put your dog in. That as an owner of one of these dogs (pit or not), you can't just let them roam around, you can't feed them with a child right there, you probably shouldn't have them around smaller animals...etc. That is the base of the problem, the people who don't get it are not good owners, and their dogs get in trouble. The grandma who fed the dog w/ the toddler right there and the kid got attacked- she's an idiot. I don't care what kind of dog you have-if you sit here and say your dog is perfect, well...your dumb.(sorry, couldnt' think of a nicer way to put it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 What stats are those? The ones that prove without a doubt that pit bulls seriously injure and kill far more people than any other breed? I crunched the numbers myself – I took how many fatal attacks were in the US by Pit Bulls over the last 3 years. I then took the estimated total owned dog population by the Humane Society. I then took estimations that say Pit Bulls make up 5% of dogs in the country. I then used an even MORE and absurdly conservative number of 1%. I did the math. That is the estimated % of pit bulls that are responsible for deaths in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 That is the base of the problem, the people who don't get it are not good owners, and their dogs get in trouble. The grandma who fed the dog w/ the toddler right there and the kid got attacked- she's an idiot. Bingo. The onus is on the owner. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Unbelieveable. Actually, really not too unvbelievable when it comes to pit pulls. This breed is the worst of the wosrt. Shere there way be a few outlier pitbulls here and there who do no have the genetic makeup/personality of a monster (my of my guy friends has a bull I'm in love with and have wanted for so long with my dad telling me delll no every which way I try) Guess I'll just have to stick w Cerman Shephards and bratty basset hounds...they make my life happy enough. I would love to have my guy friends' pitbull for a while, but even then, I wouldn' have her around children at all. I think a lot of people out there really don't understand the implications/inherent nature of the dog they own and it can oftem lead to sad tragdies like that. That really sucks. Little early to be drinking isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 What we should do is have the gov't determine what the best breed for us is and we each get a standard issue dog or cat ... problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Here is what some of you anti pit bull people don't realize. I don't hear any of us pit bull owners on here saying they are 100% perfect and would never do anything wrong. Yup. In fact almost every single pit owner in this thread has said there should be regulations and mandatory training. Some even are asking for licenses to own certain breeds of dogs. There is not a lot of people saying – “there is no problem you are all crazy” – most people just see a solution that is different than banning or destroying a breed of dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yup.In fact almost every single pit owner in this thread has said there should be regulations and mandatory training. Some even are asking for licenses to own certain breeds of dogs. There is not a lot of people saying – “there is no problem you are all crazy” – most people just see a solution that is different than banning or destroying a breed of dog. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that irresponsible pit(actually most dog) owners probably outweigh the responsible such as yourselves. No one is going to come in this thread and describe exactly how irresponsible they are with their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It is insanely simple. If you want a dog, but you live in an apartment or small house with a small backyard, it would be unwise to consider a large breed (mastiff, dane, rott) unless you are 100% committed to running that dog for miles at a time. Every day. If you live in an city/urban setting, or by busy roads, you would not let your dog off of leashes or roam where it pleases. That dog will be taken or killed by a car. There is simple common sense that is understood by many when it comes to dog ownership. However, somehow we treat dogs much differently than other animals. People do not seem to understand that all dogs, no matter how "nice" or "gentle" a breed is said to be, they are still animals. They need direction, training and most of all they have to be watched. Pit Bulls are bred to be aggressive animals. So have Rottweilers, German Shepards and Mastiffs. However, over a long period of time, much of the instability has been bred out of those animals and training methods have been discovered that turn those dogs into obedient, attentive and highly useful animals. Because these dogs are primarily owned for showing off, looking tough, or worse, fighting, they are of course going to show that they are unstable. The type of person that wants a companion in a dog for no other reason than to look "tough" is not the type of person that is going to be able to train that dog and give it the direction it needs to become a stable dog, as that person is unstable him/herself. Now if you use the same common sense I mentioned above and you give the dog the proper training, direction and exercise, they can be wonderful dogs. I have seen it first hand. I have even seen aggressive Pits become super obedient animals. It can happen, but it takes the type of care and determination that the large majority of Pit owners either do not care to take, or are completely ignorant into thinking that their words and voice are strong enough to tame an ANIMAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 .0004% look back a couple posts. That's the percentage of Pitt Bulls that have done fatal attacks. Yes, I saw the unofficial stats. They in no way refute that Pit Bulls are responsible for more injuries and deaths than any other breed. Only .00001% of cobras on Earth are responsible for human deaths, so they're probably no more dangerous than a black snake right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that irresponsible pit(actually most dog) owners probably outweigh the responsible such as yourselves. No one is going to come in this thread and describe exactly how irresponsible they are with their dogs. But numbers can show you .... .0004% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that irresponsible pit(actually most dog) owners probably outweigh the responsible such as yourselves. No one is going to come in this thread and describe exactly how irresponsible they are with their dogs. True. And just for the record, I don’t have a Pit Bull. I have a Pit Mix (about 50%) myself, but have volunteered a lot of time at shelters for several years. In your opinion are most Pit Bull owners in the US responsible or irresponsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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