Mickalino Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't buy that. God created the possibility of evil. He created Lucifer or the Devil. He didn't uncreate him after his fall. He tolerates Hell and devils and demons and having foul influences coursing throw his world. He also set into motion chains of action and nature that randomly "cause" evil. It's really simple. Free Will. God created everything that is good. And only good things. Lucifer in heaven twisted, distorted, reversed it (or whatever word you want to use) and thereby instituted evil. God didn't do it. Satan didn't even create anything, he twisted it. Take anything good and turn it upside down, and see what you have. He then became known as Satan and tempted man with this newly found evil, and man relented. God did NOT want robots - he wanted men to freely choose him and follow him out of their own free will. What pleasure would God have if he had to force people to do what is right ? That doesn't mean those who follow Him won't have problems, but they can choose what will rule their life. That's why so-called "Christians" still do crazy things and make bad examples, because they still have that "free will" thing goin on, that they havnt mastered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Can't we silence these Christian athletes who thank Jesus whenever they win and never mention his name when the lose? You never hear them say, "Jesus made me drop the ball," or, "The good Lord tripped me up behind the line of scrimmage." According to Christian athletes, Jesus is undefeated. Meanwhile, a lot of these Holy a******s are in sixth place. Maybe it's one of those miracles we hear so much about." EDIT: It's really simple. Free Will.God created everything that is good. And only good things. Lucifer in heaven twisted, distorted, reversed it (or whatever word you want to use) and thereby created evil. God didn't do it. He then became Satan and tempted man with this newly created evil, and man relented. God did NOT want robots - he wanted men to freely choose him and follow him out of their own free will. What pleasure would God have if he had to force people to do what is right ? That doesn't mean those who follow Him won't have problems, but they can choose what will rule their life. That's why so-called "Christians" still do crazy things and make bad examples, because they still have that "free will" thing goin on, that they havnt mastered. And yet he kicked Adam and Eve out for obtaining knowledge?Robots? :no: Ignorant? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 EDIT: And yet he kicked Adam and Eve out for obtaining knowledge? For disobedience.......they got a very clear warning to stay away from that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 For disobedience.......they got a very clear warning to stay away from that thing.And why did he want them to stay away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 And why did he want them to stay away? Gennisis Chapter 2 Verse 17: "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." He didn't mean die physically he meant spiritually. A Christian rapper by the name of Flame summed it up pretty nice in "Our World Fallen": "Cause in Adam something happened That was traumatic, dramatic, it had to drastic affecting us all Rejecting our God Brought death to us all In choosing to sin The need to repent We call it the the fall" It's like this, you trust and obey God and you are cool. If you don't you might suffer the wrath of God. Sounds convenient, it sounds cliche, but it is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I'm not going to get into the debate about whether or not we should all be Christian but I will take an agnostic stab and answering: Have you ever done something, athletically or artistically, that was truly exceptional? In the very few times that I have, it felt like I was watching someone else doing it. Like I was almost just along for the ride. There are times in your life, good and bad, when it feels like the situation is beyond you. I think thanking God is a way to articulate that. Or, in simpler terms, it's been said that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Perhaps people thank God for the opportunity part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Or, in simpler terms, it's been said that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Perhaps people thank God for the opportunity part. Close enough,I just feel we make our own luck...both good and bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 All glory is to God Without Him, you don't have the basis for your talent, or character. There are a select few who are blessed enough to have amazing ability to perform certain feats. They should thank Him everyday for being given those gifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 All glory is to GodWithout Him, you don't have the basis for your talent, or character. There are a select few who are blessed enough to have amazing ability to perform certain feats. They should thank Him everyday for being given those gifts Assuming that's where they got them. :shhh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 All glory is to GodWithout Him, you don't have the basis for your talent, or character. There are a select few who are blessed enough to have amazing ability to perform certain feats. They should thank Him everyday for being given those gifts Okay. Can you prove it or should I just take your word for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Okay.Can you prove it or should I just take your word for it? Can you prove he's wrong? Jus' sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Can you prove he's wrong?Jus' sayin'. No. But I never stated any opinion nor claimed it as fact. He has. So.. what's the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 No. But I never stated any opinion nor claimed it as fact. He has.So.. what's the evidence? I've found that this is a pointless debate, really. And while I see why you disagree, he wasn't trying to state fact. See, faith is a belief in something that CAN'T be proven. But if you believe in God, then that IS truth for you. I don't get into the whole cramming my religion down other people's throats thing like some do. (And it's my experience that SHF doesn't either.) But for people like us, despite the fact that he's Muslim and I'm Christian, our beliefs ARE our reality. I was just pointing out the irony of the traditional atheist argument. They (not you in particular) always cry out for facts and hard evidence. But when the tables are turned, all you hear is crickets. Frankly, I think it's far easier to argue that something with the complexity of the human body for instance, required intelligent design than not. But that's my truth. Not necessarily yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've found that this is a pointless debate, really. And while I see why you disagree, he wasn't trying to state fact.See, faith is a belief in something that CAN'T be proven. But if you believe in God, then that IS truth for you. I don't get into the whole cramming my religion down other people's throats thing like some do. (And it's my experience that SHF doesn't either.) But for people like us, despite the fact that he's Muslim and I'm Christian, our beliefs ARE our reality. I was just pointing out the irony of the traditional atheist argument. They (not you in particular) always cry out for facts and hard evidence. But when the tables are turned, all you hear is crickets. Frankly, I think it's far easier to argue that something with the complexity of the human body for instance, required intelligent design than not. But that's my truth. Not necessarily yours. I'm not an aetheist. I don't exactly know what I am. Am I willing to accept there is a higher being somewhere? Sure. Other than that, I have no earthly idea. I don't have a lot of faith in anything so maybe that's part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I'm not an aetheist. I don't exactly know what I am. Am I willing to accept there is a higher being somewhere? Sure.Other than that, I have no earthly idea. I don't have a lot of faith in anything so maybe that's part of the problem. I know bits and pieces of your story and your questions about faith. That's why I tried not to address you directly. As for your "problem" of not having faith in a lot of things. Frankly, I think your faith has been shaken by NOT being able to trust people that the rest of us take for granted. It's difficult to experience some of the things you have and still trust anyone or anything. But if the time comes for that to change, you'll know it. Regardless, you're in my prayers, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Gennisis Chapter 2 Verse 17:"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." He didn't mean die physically he meant spiritually. A Christian rapper by the name of Flame summed it up pretty nice in "Our World Fallen": "Cause in Adam something happened That was traumatic, dramatic, it had to drastic affecting us all Rejecting our God Brought death to us all In choosing to sin The need to repent We call it the the fall" It's like this, you trust and obey God and you are cool. If you don't you might suffer the wrath of God. Sounds convenient, it sounds cliche, but it is the truth. Knowledge=death?:bsflag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't buy that. God created the possibility of evil. He created Lucifer or the Devil. He didn't uncreate him after his fall. He tolerates Hell and devils and demons and having foul influences coursing throw his world. He also set into motion chains of action and nature that randomly "cause" evil. If there is good because of God then there is also bad. He created all of it. God didn't creat Satan. God created man with free will, free choice. Adam and Eve made the choice to eat the apple, therefore opening up sin. If God wanted to create a perfect world, where everyone was perfect and he had total control of what we did, then we wouldn't be in this world. God created man with the free will, so we make the choices. We have a choice to be good or bad, to commit crimes against others, or to choose to live a "good" life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 because they exist and most likely did have influence. My post was sarcastic....I know why people would thank others in their life. I'm not an aetheist. I don't exactly know what I am. Am I willing to accept there is a higher being somewhere? Sure.Other than that, I have no earthly idea. I don't have a lot of faith in anything so maybe that's part of the problem. Besides being raised as a Christian, I really rather be safe than sorry. But it has to be an honest belief. But I also don't get into the little argumets. For example, creation vs evolution. I don't believe that it makes one bit of difference in my salvation if I believe evolution exists. There are people who get all freaked out if you say you believe that evolution exists. Or drinking alcohol, or wearing certain clothing....none of that matters IMO, whether or not you are saved. You just merely need to believe that Jesus is the son of God, and died to save us. For me it really is that simple. The rest is like the garnish on a dinner plate. It's there to look pretty, but you don't need it for nurishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsBry Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I was just pointing out the irony of the traditional atheist argument. They (not you in particular) always cry out for facts and hard evidence. But when the tables are turned, all you hear is crickets. To be fair, it's hard to prove something doesn't exist when there is no proof that it does exist. God could clear all this up if he'd just hold a State of Existence Address every so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Knowledge=death?:bsflag: I guess I left out an important part Genesis 2: 16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die If God commanded it, obviously he was trying to protect them from something. But they didn't listen, thus the term fallen word was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 To be fair, it's hard to prove something doesn't exist when there is no proof that it does exist.God could clear all this up if he'd just hold a State of Existence Address every so many years. LOL. True. No proof? OK. It took intelligent design to create the pen on my desk. But the intracacies of the human body just...spontaneously happened. Maybe there's no absolute proof. But I'd feel comfortable trying a civil case on this where the standard is a preponderence of the evidence. No doubt you'd win the criminal trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 It took intelligent design to create the pen on my desk. But according to the atheist theory, because of the fact that you cannot explain and prove in detail, and undisputable fact, that that pen was created by someone, therefore that pen has no creator, and it just came into being by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 But according to the atheist theory, because of the fact that you cannot explain and prove in detail, and undisputable fact, that that pen was created by someone, therefore that pen has no creator, and it just came into being by itself. Fortunately, I don't have to wait for all of us to die to prove where the pen came from. :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsBry Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 But according to the atheist theory, because of the fact that you cannot explain and prove in detail, and undisputable fact, that that pen was created by someone, therefore that pen has no creator, and it just came into being by itself. WHAT???? Here, this will help. http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=how%20pens%20are%20made&rlz=1W1ADBS_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 WHAT????Here, this will help. http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=how%20pens%20are%20made&rlz=1W1ADBS_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv# The pen was just an example I borrowed from honorary hog to prove a point (under the assumption h_h didn't know how a pen was created. So how about, substitute "Nuclear Reactor" for "pen" and my point might be more understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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