Obama's Cairo Speech

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

If you didn't I'd be worried about your sense of humor.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be hanging around here

[twa]

it's because of a little thing called context. i trust you were around for the previous administration's demonization of Islam?

We obviously did not listen to the same Administration:),W was a great friend to Islam and vocal about differentiating between the extremist and average.

[twa]

Interesting look at the crowd reaction to the speech

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23338.html

[Dan T.]

Interesting look at the crowd reaction to the speech

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23338.html

That was one thing that was a bit jarring as I watched (I only caught the first 6 or 7 minutes this morning). Where the applause breaks occurred told you very quickly this wasn't his usual audience.

[SnyderShrugged]

Corporations leveraging themselves into nothingness and 8 years of nonexistent regulation increased federal power, not Barack Obama.

edit: also, federal power? Really? They want to get out of business as quick as possible. If you don't think that, then you are completely uninformed. This problem was a long time coming, only an idiot would blame a 6 month President.

well, this could be a whole thread topic all by itself. I'll just say that I agree that President Obama did not create these problems. But i will state that he likely has made a bad situation much, much worse. Only time will tell.

regardless, He is the one ultimately responsible for the huge expanse in federal power, no matter your opinion.

[JMS]

well, this could be a whole thread topic all by itself. I'll just say that I agree that President Obama did not create these problems. But i will state that he likely has made a bad situation much, much worse. Only time will tell.

You know there wasn't a single new policy statement in Obama's speech. You think Obama made things "much, much worse" by restating what has been official US policy for decades, by respecting Islam, and by giving the appearance of becomeing a fair broker for peace in the Israeli / Palistinian troubles.

Wow.

regardless, He is the one ultimately responsible for the huge expanse in federal power, no matter your opinion.

Wrong again. Bush is the guy who presided over the creation of the crisis, and he's the guy who initiated the expanse in federal power to deal with it.

Obama inherited the crisis, and a significant part of the cure. We might agree regardless of Bush, Obama is going to be the guy who is credited or ridiculed for the cure.

[mjah]

So what did they write for him to read of the teleprompter this time? :shot:

I'm of the opinion that it's okay to read from a teleprompter, if you're personally contributing a huge amount of the content that appears on the teleprompter.

No different from bringing your notes up to the podium, really.

[SnyderShrugged]

You know there wasn't a single new policy statement in Obama's speech. You think Obama made things "much, much worse" by restating what has been official US policy for decades, by respecting Islam, and by giving the appearance of becomeing a fair broker for peace in the Israeli / Palistinian troubles.

Wow.

Wrong again. Bush is the guy who presided over the creation of the crisis, and he's the guy who initiated the expanse in federal power to deal with it.

Obama inherited the crisis, and a significant part of the cure. We might agree regardless of Bush, Obama is going to be the guy who is credited or ridiculed for the cure.

Ummm, we werent discussing his speech (which I am in full support of, btw) in that post. I actually agree with trying to mend the ME fences (except I would propose that he not only needs words, but needs actions as well, something he has not done by continuing the failed foreign policy of the neo-cons)

I ridicule both Presidnet Bush and president Obama for thier personal contributions to bloated government on the taxpayers backs.

[SkinsHokieFan]

As an aside, and I really hate to bring this debate up but it interests me quite a bit, the words the President used on this trip, along with his mannerisms and the way he acted towards people has me more convinced that as a small boy he was Muslim.

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

It is interesting though that his statements on this trip about being very close to Islam and having experienced Islam contrast with the following statement that he made in February 2008

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-on-Islam----then-and-now-46905052.html

I am a Christian, but my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and the fall of dusk. As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith.

While the president was a little vague about his father's religion, in a briefing before the speech, national security aide Denis McDonough was a bit more explicit:

I think the fact is, that the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to -- or before he's been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world -- you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father -- obviously Muslim Americans [are] a key part of Illinois and Chicago.

Contrast those statements to remarks Obama made to a Jewish organization in Cleveland in February 2008:

My grandfather, who was Kenyan, converted to Christianity, then converted to Islam. My father never practiced; he was basically agnostic. So, other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for four years when I was a child, I have very little connection to the Islamic religion.

[SnyderShrugged]

As an aside, and I really hate to bring this debate up but it interests me quite a bit, the words the President used on this trip, along with his mannerisms and the way he acted towards people has me more convinced that as a small boy he was Muslim.

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

It is interesting though that his statements on this trip about being very close to Islam and having experienced Islam contrast with the following statement that he made in February 2008

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-on-Islam----then-and-now-46905052.html

always interesting the contrast between pre and post election.

[Baculus]

I thought it was a good speech and tried to balance both the American position and a recognition to the Muslim's view on current affairs. Also, there were definitely moments where Pres. Obama was speaking in the language -- wording-wise -- that Muslims would understand. I believe this was a wise move on his part, because it isn't often that the Islamic world has an American President to whom they can relate.

With a billion Muslims on this planet, they are the ones who will ultimately stop terrorism. But we also have to play our part, policy-wise, especially when it comes to the situation Israel and Palestine.

The President isn't going to make everyone happy, but I think he hit enough important points for most folks to find something in agreement with the content of the speech.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

As an aside, and I really hate to bring this debate up but it interests me quite a bit, the words the President used on this trip, along with his mannerisms and the way he acted towards people has me more convinced that as a small boy he was Muslim.

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

You have to remember that President Obama studied the Quran in school as a child in Idonesia.

That being the case, I'm not surprised that he would refer to the Quran in this manner.

Plus, I'm sure he was attempting to score a few points among the muslim world.

[SnyderShrugged]

You have to remember that President Obama studied the Quran in school as a child in Idonesia.

That being the case, I'm not surprised that he would refer to the Quran in this manner.

Plus, I'm sure he was attempting to score a few points among the muslim world.

Is that what he was doing with the mini mustache too?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

is that what he was doing with the mini mustache too?

:silly:

[Baculus]

As an aside, and I really hate to bring this debate up but it interests me quite a bit, the words the President used on this trip, along with his mannerisms and the way he acted towards people has me more convinced that as a small boy he was Muslim.

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

It is interesting though that his statements on this trip about being very close to Islam and having experienced Islam contrast with the following statement that he made in February 2008

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-on-Islam----then-and-now-46905052.html

He was obviously playing to both audiences with his words. I will say that the school he attended in Indonesia is rather secular, but he was still growing up in a Muslim nation. Obviously, for those few years, he would have "heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and the fall of dusk."

From what I read, his father was, in essence, an agnostic: A non-religious Muslim, if you will. Yes, he was a "Muslim," but he also drank a lot and fooled around with many women. With that in mind, I guess you can say that he wasn't a very good Muslim, and was probably ambivalent about his faith.

Keep this in mind, too: His mother was an atheist, so I imagine his father couldn't have been strict.

So, eh -- who knows.

[Corcaigh]

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

Given the audience, is it significant? Would a Muslim never refer to the "Holy Bible" in a speech to a predominantly Christian crowd?

[IbleedBnG83]

Solid speech. Represented the US well

[Henry]

As an aside, and I really hate to bring this debate up but it interests me quite a bit, the words the President used on this trip, along with his mannerisms and the way he acted towards people has me more convinced that as a small boy he was Muslim.

Referring to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" is a huge give away to me

It is interesting though that his statements on this trip about being very close to Islam and having experienced Islam contrast with the following statement that he made in February 2008

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-on-Islam----then-and-now-46905052.html

Either that our Obama knows the best way to communicate with someone is to speak in their language.

[Corcaigh]

Interesting look at the crowd reaction to the speech

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23338.html

It would have been fun to have a split screen showing both a Muslim and Jewish audience. My guess is when he was rebuking one the other would be applauding.

[SnyderShrugged]

It would have been fun to have a split screen showing both a Muslim and Jewish audience. My guess is when he was rebuking one the other would be applauding.

That would look just like congress at the state of the union address!

[SkinsHokieFan]

You have to remember that President Obama studied the Quran in school as a child in Idonesia.

That being the case, I'm not surprised that he would refer to the Quran in this manner.

Plus, I'm sure he was attempting to score a few points among the muslim world.

Key line there. Young kids don't really "study" the Quran per say, but are taught to read it and then go ahead and read the whole thing in Arabic.

He was obviously playing to both audiences with his words. I will say that the school he attended in Indonesia is rather secular, but he was still growing up in a Muslim nation. Obviously, for those few years, he would have "heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and the fall of dusk."

From what I read, his father was, in essence, an agnostic: A non-religious Muslim, if you will. Yes, he was a "Muslim," but he also drank a lot and fooled around with many women. With that in mind, I guess you can say that he wasn't a very good Muslim, and was probably ambivalent about his faith.

Keep this in mind, too: His mother was an atheist, so I imagine his father couldn't have been strict.

So, eh -- who knows.

Up until a few years ago, some of my behavior would have put me as an "agnostic non-religious Muslim" What I have never been able to find out is if he was going to Friday prayers with his father as a child (which wouldn't surprise me) and what he was taught.

My thesis always has been that he was being raised as a Muslim up until age 6 or 7

Given the audience, is it significant? Would a Muslim never refer to the "Holy Bible" in a speech to a predominantly Christian crowd?

Very doubtful. I can honestly say I haven't heard of a non-Muslim refer to the Quran as the "Holy Quran" I rarely do

Either that our Obama knows the best way to communicate with someone is to speak in their language.

Excellent point. Its just a nuance that really stuck out to me

[Vicious]

always interesting the contrast between pre and post election.

Are you purposefully ignorant or do you just fall into it? The difference is not an election, it is the audience. He is doing what Presidents do, he is doing his job. Did George Bush Jr. walk around holding people's hands while he was meeting a Chinese ambassador? No, it's a different audience in the Middle East.

[SnyderShrugged]

Are you purposefully ignorant or do you just fall into it? The difference is not an election, it is the audience. He is doing what Presidents do, he is doing his job. Did George Bush Jr. walk around holding people's hands while he was meeting a Chinese ambassador? No, it's a different audience in the Middle East.

are you so "ignorant" that you cant see I wasnt bashing him whatsoever?

Do you think I'm some sort of Pres. Bush fan?

that said, I simply said it was an interesting contrast from when he was campaigning and now, and yes, I agree fully that its due to the audiences at those times.

what part has your silly wittle feathers ruffled sonny?

[Vicious]

I would never claim anyone is a fan of President Bush. I thought it was stupid when people were bashing him for holding the hand of the Sheik when he was in the Middle East. There is no compare and contract from the election, Barack Obama never went to the Middle East during the election.

[Ghost of]

Speaking as a Jew- thanks.

I still believe that the Israelis historically have been the only ones attempting to negotiate and compromise in (mostly) good faith, but also think that recent talks have been a charade that neither party buys.

Well, speaking as a convert (with some little portion of Jewish ancestry,) it means something when a country the size of NJ outproduces from a cultural, intellectual, artistic and technological perspective the entire rest of the Middle East.

The other part I quoted from your post doesn't make sense to me. For decades, the relentless genocidal propaganda of the Arab world and Palestinian leadership has made ALL SUCH TALKS charades. The Jews have given and given and had insult and calumny heaped upon them.

And they are asked to continue to take it. holding out for...some possible solution. Which, to me, is just a redux of the Final Solution.

The other issue is the fatal flaw of the modern American liberal--the belief in the power of words and the essential monolithic nature of diverse human cultures. They DO NOT SEE this the way you do. Maybe some intellectual elites exposed to the West might, but for the most part your enemies (our enemies) take this as weakness.

It's a strange thing that Communists, Nazis and Islamists/militant Pan-Arabists react in much the same way to the liberal mindset, which is something many great statesmen have warned about repeatedly.

Allow people agency in their own lives and civilizations---they are not mere foils for domestic political psychodramas, they are, right or wrong, people with their own motives and who may believe very deeply that the world will be better off without Jews or the US or without freedom for women or under a worldwide dictatorship of the proletariat/Volk.

EDIT: A bit of clarification. I'm not saying everyone hearing his words is an enemy, only that the people engaged in their incessant warring against Arab liberals, Muslim moderates, Jews, women and the West will not hear Obama and lay down the bombs.

BTW, I find it interesting that after years of war, a jihadist leader came out with a book opposing Bin Laden's doctrine of jihad and espousing a strictly political advancing of, what remains a repellent notion. Still, it's a big step up from blowing people up. The next step is co-opting such a movement.

For all the talk of the damage done by Bush, it was under those years that Lebanon took its abortive steps to freeing itself from Syria, when Iraq HAS embraced a representative government and where rumblings were astir elsewhere---if not for democratic governance, then for an anti-jihadist domestic stance.

Beware who is embraced when you have not yet hit the climax of your current struggle.