SnyderShrugged Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I would never claim anyone is a fan of President Bush. I thought it was stupid when people were bashing him for holding the hand of the Sheik when he was in the Middle East. There is no compare and contract from the election, Barack Obama never went to the Middle East during the election. Well, we already have both acknowledged that his words really were intended for different audiences, so that point it moot. Contrasting is still appropriate because he really had very different approaches in both times. Not a bad thing, just as I said originally in response to shf's post..."interesting" Don't get so riled up! Not everything nor everybody is bashing one you obviously have great respect for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 My thesis always has been that he was being raised as a Muslim up until age 6 or 7 Who was raising him as a muslim? His biological father left when he was three years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Who was raising him as muslim? His father left when he was three years old. Soetoro, his stepfather? the one who married his mother after that...you know, the reason he was in Indonesia in the first place? Plus, his mother, as a typical white leftist who probably felt little love for her own country, probably encouraged him to take up the mantle of a religion that was exotic or opposed to the place she left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarcus1914 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 People kill me. The GOP says that Obama is making the US unsafe, yet he goes out and actually takes the teeth out of Al Qieada's bite, and he is still criticized. Bombing on people doesn't work, but changing minds does. Give respect where it's due. It's not Obama's fault a whole country has forgotten the benefits the Islamic culture gave Western Civilization. It's not Obama's fault Christians, especially the "right" feel they are self righteous. This was a great step not just in politics but in history in general. Get it?! The man has a pair bigger than any president that manned the Oval office. He stepped into a powder keg, showed courage and grace under fire. Good show Mr. President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 whole country has forgotten the benefits the Islamic culture gave Western Civilization. It's not Obama's fault Christians, especially the "right" feel they are self righteous. This was a great step not just in politics but in history in general. Get it?! The man has a pair bigger than any president that manned the Oval office. You greatly overestimate said contribution, as it was mainly in transmitting the wisdom of the Greeks and Romans, and feeding on the rotting corpses of the Eastern Orthodox Christian, Hindu and pre-Islamic Persian civilizations that they were able to run for some hundred years until collapsing into the "Sick old man of Europe" in the form of the Ottomans. As for bigger pair than any president that was in the Oval Office. Well, I guess GW didn't live in the White House, so maybe we discount him, TECHNICALLY but since he and other people actually faced combat--like Andrew Jackson, Dwight Eisenhower, etc I think your statement is more than hyperbole it's indicative of an embarrassing lack of historical knowledge and WORST, you seem to possess a strong racial/religious bigotry, the same you accuse others of in this post. This is just based on other posts I've seen you make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Soetoro, his stepfather? the one who married his mother after that...you know, the reason he was in Indonesia in the first place? Barack Obama Sr. left the family when President Obama was 2 or 3. Soetoro didn't show up until President Obama was around 6 and SkinsHokiesFan stated that he believed that Obama was a muslim until he was 6 or 7. Thus, my reason for asking who raised him as a muslim until the ages 6 or seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 People kill me. The GOP says that Obama is making the US unsafe, yet he goes out and actually takes the teeth out of Al Qieada's bite, and he is still criticized. Bombing on people doesn't work, but changing minds does. Give respect where it's due. It's not Obama's fault a whole country has forgotten the benefits the Islamic culture gave Western Civilization. It's not Obama's fault Christians, especially the "right" feel they are self righteous. This was a great step not just in politics but in history in general. Get it?! The man has a pair bigger than any president that manned the Oval office. He stepped into a powder keg, showed courage and grace under fire. Good show Mr. President. The Republicans that I heard talk about Obamas speech had really good things to say about it, why all the wasted key strokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 You greatly overestimate said contribution, as it was mainly in transmitting the wisdom of the Greeks and Romans, and feeding on the rotting corpses of the Eastern Orthodox Christian, Hindu and pre-Islamic Persian civilizations that they were able to run for some hundred years until collapsing into the "Sick old man of Europe" in the form of the Ottomans. In my opinion, this is a false view of history, and reflects a Western bias that can not be supported objectively. Every civilization takes from the ones before it, the Muslims no more than others. The sole exception may be the Greeks, who were pretty damn unique. Fact is, the Islamic civilization was the most culturally and scientifically vibrant society in the world for about 600 years, until Genghis Khan came through. To minimize this as "transmitting the wisdom of the Greeks and Romans and feeding on rotten corpses" of other civilizations is a cheap shot, and a stupid one too. By that token, America is just "feeding on the corpse" of British Civilization, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Plus, his mother, as a typical white leftist who probably felt little love for her own country, probably encouraged him to take up the mantle of a religion that was exotic or opposed to the place she left. I like how we can come to any conclusion we want, as long as we through the word "probably" in front of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarcus1914 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The Republicans that I heard talk about Obamas speech had really good things to say about it, why all the wasted key strokes? I mean in general. Dick Cheney has said Obama is amking America unsafe. And I was saying how so. Obama is bridging the gap between Muslims Nation and the US. He is taking the steam out of Bin Laden's message. This was another step. If you change people's minds you stop the violence. The people I spoke to that are republicans thought this put america in harms way because it showed a form of weakness. How is it weak to have constructive dialogue? That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The Republicans that I heard talk about Obamas speech had really good things to say about it, why all the wasted key strokes? Well, not John Boener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I mean in general. Dick Cheney has said Obama is amking America unsafe. And I was saying how so. Obama is bridging the gap between Muslims Nation and the US. He is taking the steam out of Bin Laden's message. This was another step. If you change people's minds you stop the violence. The people I spoke to that are republicans thought this put america in harms way because it showed a form of weakness. How is it weak to have constructive dialogue? That was my point. After Obama took office and was briefed by national security experts he changed his direction. I actually think Obama is taking some of Cheneys advice, when it comes to security in the United States. Cheney knows a hell of a lot about the existing national security threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 After Obama took office and was briefed by national security experts he changed his direction. I actually think Obama is taking some of Cheneys advice, when it comes to security in the United States. Cheney knows a hell of a lot about the existing national security threats. I think that is silly. I don't think Obama is taking any adivce from Cheney. Obama has his own professional national security team. It would be unrealistic to think that Obama would be 100% the opposite of Cheney (or anyone). You can't extrapolate from that lack of complete disagreement and conclude that Cheney has any influence in the White House today... especially when so much of what Cheney is saying appears to be barely veiled attacks motivated by sour grapes and unsubtle attempts to salvage his own pathetic demolished legacy as a foreign policy and national security expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarcus1914 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 You greatly overestimate said contribution, as it was mainly in transmitting the wisdom of the Greeks and Romans, and feeding on the rotting corpses of the Eastern Orthodox Christian, Hindu and pre-Islamic Persian civilizations that they were able to run for some hundred years until collapsing into the "Sick old man of Europe" in the form of the Ottomans.As for bigger pair than any president that was in the Oval Office. Well, I guess GW didn't live in the White House, so maybe we discount him, TECHNICALLY but since he and other people actually faced combat--like Andrew Jackson, Dwight Eisenhower, etc I think your statement is more than hyperbole it's indicative of an embarrassing lack of historical knowledge and WORST, you seem to possess a strong racial/religious bigotry, the same you accuse others of in this post. This is just based on other posts I've seen you make. Has some one ever heard of the Byzatine Empire,Turkish Empire, Zoorastor, Persian Empire (eventhough it wasn't an islamic state at the time), Sirus the Great, Astrology, hold on.....you can go on this link and find a whole list of their meanial contributions http://members.tripod.com/~salems2/muslim_contribution_to_the_world.html Granted I feel you are talking from an acute point of view. Sure the Byzatine Empire rose during the Dark Ages, but that rise wasn't just because of the black plague. There were other factors at work. And then sure your have the Ottoman empire, that fell in WWI, and we say what Lawrence of Arabia, and English policies towards the middle east did. As for calling me a bigot I take offense to that. Honestly we are on a forum that allows you to say something like that without knowing me. My posts may deal with race, or relegious inequities, but for god sakes don't feel that I only am on one side of the siuation. Most the post on this site have an unfavorable view of certain things that do not align themselves with the main stream. Shoot me. As for the presidents that served in the army, do you really think they were on the front line? Do you think they were grunts....of course not. I am not saying they didn't serve, and face enemy fire. I think your point of veiw shows a lack of hsitorical facts. As I said Obama was showed the biggest pair for any one that manned the oval office. As a president he stepped into the fire. I commend these men serving their country. But they were not the president of America at the time. I mean Andrew Jackson, Ole Hickory, he was a general during the battle of New Orleans, Dwight Eisenhower was good friends with General Patton, and was a general in WWII, and GW well he flew a plane in combat......none of them put their legacy as president on the line in this manner. What Obama did was unprecedented. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarcus1914 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 After Obama took office and was briefed by national security experts he changed his direction. I actually think Obama is taking some of Cheneys advice, when it comes to security in the United States. Cheney knows a hell of a lot about the existing national security threats. The threat isn;t the same afer today. Bin Laden can not galvanized the Muslim world against america. There is a chance at measures being in place to bring some semblance of peace to the region. None of this "either you are agianst us, or with us" crap. If this speech short circuits Bin Ladens message, then maybe American interest can find safety both in this county and abroad. I thought the global financial crisis made you understand we are all in this together. This is a global threat, not just national. We can't just circle the wagons anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The threat isn;t the same afer today. Bin Laden can not galvanized the Muslim world against america. There is a chance at measures being in place to bring some semblance of peace to the region. None of this "either you are agianst us, or with us" crap. If this speech short circuits Bin Ladens message, then maybe American interest can find safety both in this county and abroad. I thought the global financial crisis made you understand we are all in this together. This is a global threat, not just national. We can't just circle the wagons anymore. Yeah right, one of the most naive statements on terrorism I have read on this board. I am not sure I read this clearly, the threat terrorist threat isn't as great today as it was yesterday because of Obamas speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Somebody resurrect Crazyhorse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMarcus1914 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yeah right, one of the most naive statements on terrorism I have read on this board. I am not sure I read this clearly, the threat terrorist threat isn't as great today as it was yesterday because of Obamas speech? Did you see how the people of that region hung on every word? Please don't sit in Hagerstown and try to equate the gravity of this event with those that experienced it in that region. There is a clear discord between the "muslim world" and America. CNN did a poll last night and 74% of the people in the "muslim world" has a disfavorable view of America. If we can decrease that by even one person, that is one step closer to the peace Cheney, GWII, and everyone is aiming for.... Do you really think that this speech will incite the American-Islamic conflict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haithman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Dont see the big deal about him referring to the Qur'an as "holy." Bush did the same thing during a reception at the WhiteHouse in 2001 "Good evening, and welcome to the White House. I'm so honored to welcome such distinguished guests and ambassadors during the holy month of Ramadan. America is made better by millions of Muslim citizens. America has close and important relations with many Islamic nations. So it is fitting for America to honor your friendship and the traditions of a great faith by hosting this Iftaar at the White House. I want to thank our Secretary of State for being here, as well as members of my administration. I want to thank the ambassadors for taking time in this holy month to come to join us in this feast. Ramadan is a time of fasting and prayer for the Muslim faithful. So tonight we are reminded of God's greatness and His commandments to live in peace and to help neighbors in need. According to Muslim teachings, God first revealed His word in the holy Qur'an to the prophet, Muhammad, during the month of Ramadan. That word has guided billions of believers across the centuries, and those believers built a culture of learning and literature and science. All the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements. Ramadan and the upcoming holiday season are a good time for people of different faiths to learn more about each other. And the more we learn, the more we find that many commitments are broadly shared. We share a commitment to family, to protect and love our children. We share a belief in God's justice, and man's moral responsibility. And we share the same hope for a future of peace. We have much in common and much to learn from one another. This evening, we gather in a spirit of peace and cooperation. I appreciate your support of our objectives in the campaign against terrorism. Tonight that campaign continues in Afghanistan, so that the people of Afghanistan will soon know peace. The terrorists have no home in any faith. Evil has no holy days. This evening we also gather in the spirit of generosity and charity. As this feast breaks the Ramadan fast, America is also sharing our table with the people of Afghanistan. We are proud to play a leading role in humanitarian relief efforts, with air drops and truck convoys of food and medicine. America's children are donating their dollars to the Afghan children. And my administration is committed to help reconstruct that country, and to support a stable government that represents all of the people of Afghanistan. We are working for more opportunity and a better life for the people of Afghanistan, and all the people of the Islamic world. America respects people of all faiths, and America seeks peace with people of all faiths. I thank you for your friendship, and I wish you a blessed Ramadan." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Did you see how the people of that region hung on every word? Please don't sit in Hagerstown and try to equate the gravity of this event with those that experienced it in that region. There is a clear discord between the "muslim world" and America. CNN did a poll last night and 74% of the people in the "muslim world" has a disfavorable view of America. If we can decrease that by even one person, that is one step closer to the peace Cheney, GWII, and everyone is aiming for.... Do you really think that this speech will incite the American-Islamic conflict? I think it helped, I have not said a single bad thing about it even though I don't think we hould be kissing the muslims worlds ass. Terrorism, screwed up countries and radical leaders is their problem, not ours. Overall there were parts of the speech I really liked and Obama as usual delivers the message very well. There are parts I think he should have left out, the quran bit is one of them. Obamas speech didn't change the terrorist factor in the slightest and the Muslim world will always have car bombings, beheadings , radical leaders and women being treated like dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The criticism of Israel was a little bit playing to the crowd I suppose, but it still baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The criticism of Israel was a little bit playing to the crowd I suppose, but it still baffles me. What baffles you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 What baffles you? I don't think it's wise to antagonize your allies in the region, especially when it really doesn't get you anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't think it's wise to antagonize your allies in the region, especially when it really doesn't get you anywhere. You call it antagonizing. I prefer to think of it as speaking the truth. And sometimes hearing the truth can be uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 You call it antagonizing. I prefer to think of it as speaking the truth.And sometimes hearing the truth can be uncomfortable. I'm not denying its the truth, I'm just saying it's unwise is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.