SI's Best and Worst Owners

[tonyriggins]

I dont care what other teams have or dont have a GM, if they are sucessful or not. The Washington Redskins has not had a GM with this owner and it is not working with this team! All the head coaches except for Marty has publicly said that they would consult with Mr Snyder on decisions. Snyder does not hire a General Manager because he doesn't want to give up the decision making, he can do that the team is his, but the team will not suceed. Cerrato is not the GM, we dont have one!

I dont see how anybody can take this team serouisly with Danny Snyder as the figure head. He is the laughing stock of the league. You can't kill the monster until you cut it's head off. So until he stops owning the team or hires a GM and steps aside the Redskins will be the least threat to the Superbowl in the NFL.

You may say we have a better chance to win the SB this year than Detroit or Houston, but we might have a better record, but we aren't going to the SuperBowl this year. and teams like Detroit, Houston, NYJ, SF and ever other team in the league will get there before us, just like AZ, Balt, TB, SEA has before us with Snyder running this team!

[TheLongshot]

You are repeating a senseless question since I said "Without knowing all the facts, we can't blame Blache." I'm quite obviously not assuming facts in making that statement.

You are suggesting, tho, that the FO acted without consulting with the coaching staff and that they decided to get him on their own. That statement also cannot be verified, particularly when all the circumstantial evidence says that they did want him on the team.

BTW, I never said that Taylor was mismanaged. I said IF he was mismanaged, then it is on the coaching staff, because it is their job to get the most out of the players that they have and put them in the best position to succeed.

[Art]

Not only circumstantial evidence, but, there's even an actual, factual media account about the Taylor situation where Zorn, Blache, Cerrato and Snyder met and after determining we wouldn't be in good shape without improvement at defensive end after Daniels went down that Snyder said he wanted to do whatever it would take to win, so make it happen.

Cerrato then went and did, based largely on the input from Blache and Zorn who said it was necessary.

[SkinsFTW]

I thought getting Taylor was a good idea if they kept him around for 3 years or more. What was bad was trading away the picks and then cutting him after 1 year. If you don't give him more than 1 injured year no player is worth a 2nd rounder.

[Oldfan]

You are suggesting, tho, that the FO acted without consulting with the coaching staff and that they decided to get him on their own. That statement also cannot be verified, particularly when all the circumstantial evidence says that they did want him on the team.

I made no such suggestion.

BTW, I never said that Taylor was mismanaged. I said IF he was mismanaged, then it is on the coaching staff, because it is their job to get the most out of the players that they have and put them in the best position to succeed.

I saw the "if." It doesn't change a thing. It's not a true statement.

Taylor did not fit Blache's scheme. If Blache was consulted and he approved of the acquistion, then it's his fault if he didn't use Taylor properly.

If Blache wasn't consulted, and he, with good cause, weighing the pluses and minuses, chose not to alter his scheme to fit the player, then the blame goes to Vinny.

There was a disconnect somewhere on that move that could have and should have been worked out before making the trade.

[Art]

I thought getting Taylor was a good idea if they kept him around for 3 years or more. What was bad was trading away the picks and then cutting him after 1 year. If you don't give him more than 1 injured year no player is worth a 2nd rounder.

That's true, but, the team has specific standards it requires of players. Taylor was unwilling to partake in the program here, so, we could make an exception, or hold him to account. If he were 28, we'd have found a way to make an exception. He isn't so he was released. I'd have preferred to have kept him around another year at least, but, it was a balance between what he wanted and what we expected and expectations won.

[SkinsFTW]

Taylor was unwilling to partake in the program here, so, we could make an exception, or hold him to account. If he were 28, we'd have found a way to make an exception. He isn't so he was released. I'd have preferred to have kept him around another year at least, but, it was a balance between what he wanted and what we expected and expectations won.

Didn't he do the same thing last year in Miami? Refuse to do offseason stuff? If so we already knew all this.

[ntotoro]

Didn't he do the same thing last year in Miami? Refuse to do offseason stuff? If so we already knew all this.

Bottom line is the team wanted to cut him and not look like *******s in the process. They were fishing for a reason and found one. Anything the FO says otherwise is putting bull**** on a pig. Of course they already knew he didn't like offseason workouts.

[The Sisko]

The bottom line is, Orakpo was more what we were aiming for than Sanchez. Not a SINGLE person in the world heard about that. Why? Because someone outside the organization was leaking us as interested in Sanchez. For all I know all the teams up top were saying that to get someone who loved him to move up there and we had zero to do with it.

The point of what I wrote is to fully understand the media, which had no problem reporting that we loved Sanchez and wanted to move up to get him, has still, to this moment, not actually recognized that Orakpo was higher on our board. How can that be? They seem to know a ton about moves we ARE NOT making. How come they know nothing about Cutler and Chicago until it's announced? How come they know nothing about us calling up for Orakpo, until we announce it later?

Does it never occur to you that sometimes they get fed something for reasons that have everything to do with someone hoping to get something out of the deal, LIKE another team making a move because they are worried we will. Presume Snyder's not smart enough to get someone to do anything. Someone in the league might be, right? Using an aggressive, high paying, hard charging team like ours as a lever to make it seem like they have something cooking?

Not a SINGLE person knew we were interested in Orakpo you say? Are you sure about that? It seems the much maligned JLa, who doesn't exactly have a lot of contacts within Redskins Park knew about it ahead of time...

Orakpo could be gone prior to Washington's 13th overall selection on Saturday, but he is a player the team values greatly and someone team officials have indicated they would pounce on should he slip.

Strangely, that sounds awfully similar to what Cerrato said after the draft about Orakpo.

I think you might want to re-think your assessment of how tight a ship we run. You'd like to think we don't let anything out. However the evidence says otherwise. In fact, I think what many of us do here with these types of rumors is forget about them when they come true and discount them as nonsense when they don't. It seems the possibility that the rumors had merit and that Snyder may have simply wanted Cutler and Sanchez but was unwilling or unable to get either never crossed some of our minds.

Again, these guys are just not as smart as you give them credit for.

[BigMike619]

I personally think we gave it a go for Cutler but that Sanchez was just a rumor created by the media. I just cant see us going for a 1 yr college QB.

but maybe Im giving the FO too much credit

[ntotoro]

I personally think we gave it a go for Cutler but that Sanchez was just a rumor created by the media. I just cant see us going for a 1 yr college QB.

Wasn't Campbell basically a one-year wonder in College?

[TheLongshot]

I made no such suggestion.

Not entirely. It's the responsibility of the personnel people to get players we can use. It's not that hard to ask a simple question:

"Greg, D'angelo Hall is available, but his game doesn't fit your scheme. Can you adapt, or should we forget him?"

Yep, you are right, you made no such suggestion.

I saw the "if." It doesn't change a thing. It's not a true statement.

Taylor did not fit Blache's scheme. If Blache was consulted and he approved of the acquistion, then it's his fault if he didn't use Taylor properly.

If Blache wasn't consulted, and he, with good cause, weighing the pluses and minuses, chose not to alter his scheme to fit the player, then the blame goes to Vinny.

Well, you are the one who is making an uninformed opinion that Taylor didn't fit Blache's scheme. You can't really know that unless you asked him yourself. The second sentence actually agrees with what I said and what you've been arguing with me the whole time about.

The second part is true, but with what we know about the front office, what makes you think that Vinny didn't talk to Blache at some point about his interest in Taylor? We know what the coaches go over all the players who are available and rate them, probably with comments. Such decisions are probably made with those comments in hand, since they know that such decisions need to be made quickly, or the opportunity would be lost.

There was a disconnect somewhere on that move that could have and should have been worked out before making the trade.

You don't think the fact that Taylor was hurt for half the season could have had something to do with his diminished performance?

[TheLongshot]

Didn't he do the same thing last year in Miami? Refuse to do offseason stuff? If so we already knew all this.

I think we've seen the heart of what Taylor wanted: he wanted to be at home with his family. There really wasn't much we could offer that could give him that, short of moving the team to Florida.

[TheLongshot]

Not a SINGLE person knew we were interested in Orakpo you say? Are you sure about that? It seems the much maligned JLa, who doesn't exactly have a lot of contacts within Redskins Park knew about it ahead of time...

Strangely, that sounds awfully similar to what Cerrato said after the draft about Orakpo.

I think you might want to re-think your assessment of how tight a ship we run. You'd like to think we don't let anything out. However the evidence says otherwise. In fact, I think what many of us do here with these types of rumors is forget about them when they come true and discount them as nonsense when they don't. It seems the possibility that the rumors had merit and that Snyder may have simply wanted Cutler and Sanchez but was unwilling or unable to get either never crossed some of our minds.

Again, these guys are just not as smart as you give them credit for.

You have one little blurb about an interest in Orakpo. How much ink was used in our reported interest in Sanchez in comparison? We also had some reported interest in Smith, but that didn't get the press that Sanchez got.

[SkinsFTW]

I think we've seen the heart of what Taylor wanted: he wanted to be at home with his family. There really wasn't much we could offer that could give him that, short of moving the team to Florida.

Right, but if they already knew that he doesn't want to do offseason stuff but trade a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder for him anyway then why cry about this the following offseason?

Just sounds to me like a team that has major issues holding onto draft picks and basically trading them away for next to nothing, year after year. How many of our own 2nd rounders have we used since 2000? Not many.

What do we have to show for all the 2nd rounders traded away?

[Thinking Skins]

Right, but if they already knew that he doesn't want to do offseason stuff but trade a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder for him anyway then why cry about this the following offseason?

Just sounds to me like a team that has major issues holding onto draft picks and basically trading them away for next to nothing, year after year. How many of our own 2nd rounders have we used since 2000? Not many.

What do we have to show for all the 2nd rounders traded away?

All we can pray is that they learn from this one and are now deeming the draft picks more valuable.

When Snyder said he wasn't trading the 2010 first rounder, he gave an explanation that our first round picks have been pretty good and so its not wise to trade it away. Hopefully they learn to feel similarly about all our draft picks....but that actually involves us USING our draft picks well, which is a whole nother debate in itself.

[BigMike619]

Wasn't Campbell basically a one-year wonder in College?

youre saying that because he only won the national championship once he was a one year wonder?

[Oldfan]

Yep, you are right, you made no such suggestion.

That's exactly right. That general statement was not a suggestion that I was questioning the front office in this case. You read too much into it. I've told you that twice, but you keep insisting that you know what I meant better than I do.

Well, you are the one who is making an uninformed opinion that Taylor didn't fit Blache's scheme. You can't really know that unless you asked him yourself.

I didn't have to ask him. Taylor was quoted twice commenting on the way he was used in our scheme as compared to his use in Miami.

The second sentence actually agrees with what I said and what you've been arguing with me the whole time about.

The second sentence is not to be taken out of context from the first sentence -- unless you deliberately want to misinterpret my meaning.

The second part is true, but with what we know about the front office, what makes you think that Vinny didn't talk to Blache at some point about his interest in Taylor?

This is the third time you have asked this senseless question.

You don't think the fact that Taylor was hurt for half the season could have had something to do with his diminished performance?

Taylor's performance is not relevant. Taylor was not a fit for Blache's scheme. That's the point.

Obviously, someone is at fault when we bring in a player who doesn't fit the scheme. That's a given.

Since we don't know with certainty what, if anything, was said between Vinny and Blache prior to the trade, we don't have a fair way of placing blame.

Bottom line: Lacking knowledge about Blache's input into the trade, you have no way to support the following:

If Taylor was mismanaged when he was here, that's the responsibility of the coaching staff.

[Oldfan]

You think Orakpo was the only player we were interested in having drop to us?

Art focused on Orakpo, but it was clear from looking at most of the mocks that most of the players we were interested in had a good chance of being gone by the time we picked. It was clear we needed to shake up the draft order and we needed a team who was likely to pick one of the players we wanted to be gone and replaced by someone who wanted Sanchez.

100% pure speculation.

[ttr77]

100% pure speculation.

Without speculation, this thread would have died about 350 posts ago, as would almost ALL of them

[Oldfan]

Without speculation, this thread would have died about 350 posts ago, as would almost ALL of them

"100% pure speculation" should be read as meaning no supporting evidence whatsoever as opposed to weak evidence.

[The Sisko]

You have one little blurb about an interest in Orakpo. How much ink was used in our reported interest in Sanchez in comparison? We also had some reported interest in Smith, but that didn't get the press that Sanchez got.

Two reasons for that, the first being brevity. The second was that Art implied that Snyder had some super secret master plan by saying not a single person anywhere had any idea we were interested in Orakpo. Therefore all it took was proof one person did know about it. However, there were more. Just google "Redskins interested in Orakpo" and you'll see the Times and other media outlets ran similar stories and not just the "they need help at DE so he's one of the guys they'd be interested in" type stories. These stories all state or imply that we were targeting the guy.

Again, these guys aren't as smart as you give them credit for. If it were me I'd have made sure there were at least 5 or 7 other players that we had a documented interest in. After all, we have a boatload of needs. If we'd done that, Sanchez might have been there at 13.

Sorry but it seems to me that every time Dan gets wood for a guy, everybody knows it.

[TheLongshot]

That's exactly right. That general statement was not a suggestion that I was questioning the front office in this case. You read too much into it. I've told you that twice, but you keep insisting that you know what I meant better than I do.

And I've asked you to clarify that statement and you refuse to.

I didn't have to ask him. Taylor was quoted twice commenting on the way he was used in our scheme as compared to his use in Miami.

Yes, Taylor commented that he was used differently here than he was in Miami. That doesn't say anything about his suitability for the scheme. You'd have to ask Blache about that.

The second sentence is not to be taken out of context from the first sentence -- unless you deliberately want to misinterpret my meaning.

This is the third time you have asked this senseless question.

Since you refuse to answer it, I'll stop asking it.

Taylor's performance is not relevant. Taylor was not a fit for Blache's scheme. That's the point.

Obviously, someone is at fault when we bring in a player who doesn't fit the scheme. That's a given.

It is? You've asked Blache and he told you this? YOU think that he wasn't a fit based on an outsider opinion on how he was used. If he was such a bad fit, why did Blache keep using him, particularly when he was obviously not 100%?

Since we don't know with certainty what, if anything, was said between Vinny and Blache prior to the trade, we don't have a fair way of placing blame.

I'm not sure there is much blame you can place from the standpoint that you couldn't predict that Taylor would spend half the year hurt and that in the end Taylor wouldn't want to do what was asked of him.

Bottom line: Lacking knowledge about Blache's input into the trade, you have no way to support the following:

To a certain extent I do. I've got Vinny's words about how the FO works, that they get ratings from their coaching staff. I got that Taylor got a lot of playing time from day one and was still in there even when he was obviously not 100%. I got that Blache seemed perfectly happy with having Taylor on the team and showed no signs that he didn't want him.

100% pure speculation.

You mean, like you saying that Taylor didn't fit our scheme?

Sure, it is speculation, but one based on some good educated guesses. We know what their largest needs are. We know about who was going to be picked where. Most of us looking at the board knew that the choices available for addressing one of those needs would be very limited. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the team was playing a feint to get someone to move up. Hell, the news media was all over the Broncos saying that they were doing the same thing! The only difference is that we sold it much better than the Broncos did.

[Art]

Not a SINGLE person knew we were interested in Orakpo you say? Are you sure about that? It seems the much maligned JLa, who doesn't exactly have a lot of contacts within Redskins Park knew about it ahead of time...

Strangely, that sounds awfully similar to what Cerrato said after the draft about Orakpo.

I think you might want to re-think your assessment of how tight a ship we run. You'd like to think we don't let anything out. However the evidence says otherwise. In fact, I think what many of us do here with these types of rumors is forget about them when they come true and discount them as nonsense when they don't. It seems the possibility that the rumors had merit and that Snyder may have simply wanted Cutler and Sanchez but was unwilling or unable to get either never crossed some of our minds.

Again, these guys are just not as smart as you give them credit for.

As I said, not a single person mentioned anything about us being interested in Orakpo and our efforts to move up to get him. Sanchez you heard a world about, and we weren't actually in those conversations. Difference, in case you were wondering is simply this. If Sanchez and Orakpo were available at the same moment our pick came up, we'd have taken Orakpo because he was the BPA in that.

Certainly Orakpo as well as a number of players we visited with were those known to be people we had interest in. What you didn't know is we were actually far more interested in Orakpo than Sanchez. Given you had no idea this was the case until you heard it from the team AFTER it was the case, it's likely true these guys aren't quite as dumb as you think they are.

[Art]

100% pure speculation.

Not speculation at all. If Sanchez did not go early, the players we coveted would have gone instead.