SI's Best and Worst Owners

[Art]

so if these teams like the pats/steelers/eagles all have success because of their QB, couldnt you then assume that the owner was the one responsible for getting a smart football man to find said QBs? or is it just luck that these guys picked certain QBs over others?

calling lurie a bad owner because he wont waste a billion dollars on guys that could fail is not bad management in my opinion.

Given the crap shoot a draft is, identifying a good QB is more miss than hit. There probably aren't 15 really effective QBs at the moment. Gibbs was a pretty smart football guy. He guessed wrong on Brunell and Campbell, perhaps. Spurrier knew offense and thought he could win with Wuerffel. He really did. Marty was so sure of Jeff George, he guaranteed money to make him feel special, only to blast him out.

We haven't done a good job of finding the answer at this spot. The last guy who tried is no longer with us. We'll see how long the next guy lasts if his pick also doesn't work. But, no owner has anything to do with the very good fortune often required to find the best player in NFL history in Round 6. That's mostly just dumb luck. In some cases, though, it is just dumb luck who falls to you and when you pick. San Diego wasn't really THAT dumb for taking Leaf, though they preferred Manning. He was who they had to take at a critical spot and he didn't work out. He could have worked out like Manning, kind of, and Rivers a few years ago.

[Art]

exactly. calling snyder a good owner because he throws money around like the joker in the original batman movie is just stupid. throwing money at players isnt considered smart by anyone, except maybe art i guess. lurie has obviously hired smart football minds that draft well and find guys that fit their system, which is why they are constantly in the playoffs.

i call that good management.

Lurie fired the guy who got him McNabb in a power struggle with the fat man.

[Oldfan]

OF, I agree that we kicked away that Rams game, not just with the Kendall play but also where we laid the ball on the carpet a couple of other times earlier in the game. And I agree with Art that I wasn't shocked that we lost to Cincy and that we were a bad team by the end of the season. But that also invalidates the argument that we would've done just as well as the Patriots if we had played their schedule. They were a better team than us even with their #2 QB.......period.

The Patriots have the most QB friendly scheme in the NFL. Matt Bowen called it "a WCO out of the shotgun." The passing game scheme is their chief advantage, not the QB.

Cassell and Campbell are about equal in my estimation. Brady's good, but not nearly as good as his reputation.

Obviously, Zorn's scheme is a work-in-progress. He needs big receivers, like those we drafted in 2008, to make it work.

[ST is my boy]

Lurie fired the guy who got him McNabb in a power struggle with the fat man.

Just because he may have made 1 mistake doesnt make him a bad owner. I think Lurie runs a franchise the way a franchise should be run.....and gets very good results. If Snyder isnt making ANY personel decisions, then he needs to fire the guys that are. To be honest I think if the redskins got a competent GM......one that valued draft picks I think the redskins would be great.

The combination of a competent GM, and Snyders money(if he has no control) would be virtually unbeatable.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Given the crap shoot a draft is, identifying a good QB is more miss than hit. There probably aren't 15 really effective QBs at the moment. Gibbs was a pretty smart football guy. He guessed wrong on Brunell and Campbell, perhaps. Spurrier knew offense and thought he could win with Wuerffel. He really did. Marty was so sure of Jeff George, he guaranteed money to make him feel special, only to blast him out.

We haven't done a good job of finding the answer at this spot. The last guy who tried is no longer with us. We'll see how long the next guy lasts if his pick also doesn't work. But, no owner has anything to do with the very good fortune often required to find the best player in NFL history in Round 6. That's mostly just dumb luck. In some cases, though, it is just dumb luck who falls to you and when you pick. San Diego wasn't really THAT dumb for taking Leaf, though they preferred Manning. He was who they had to take at a critical spot and he didn't work out. He could have worked out like Manning, kind of, and Rivers a few years ago.

im just not ever gonna agree that finding the right QB is dumb luck. you can make that case for brady so i wont argue that, the 6th round is in fact a crapshoot. but i dont think the chargers had dumb luck trading for rivers, i dont think the eagles had dumb luck finding mcnabb, no dumb luck for the colts drafting manning #1 over leaf, no dumb luck with the falcons selecting matt ryan, no dumb luck with the giants trading for eli manning, no dumb luck, denver had no dumb luck in taking cutler, chicago isnt just throwing crap against a wall in trading away 2 #1s for cutler, etc. these are all calculated decisions by smart football guys, and the owner is the guy who selects these smart football guys.

SD made a mistake taking leaf, which sucked. so how did they respond? selecting brees then rivers, both pro bowlers. i dont call that luck.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lurie fired the guy who got him McNabb in a power struggle with the fat man.

and then lurie turned around and obviously hired another smart football guy who has continued to find them great players year in and year out.

and i dont think anyone would argue that reid is some great coach either, but hes lucky to have the stable of horses he gets year in and year out.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Just because he may have made 1 mistake doesnt make him a bad owner. I think Lurie runs a franchise the way a franchise should be run.....and gets very good results. If Snyder isnt making ANY personel decisions, then he needs to fire the guys that are. To be honest I think if the redskins got a competent GM......one that valued draft picks I think the redskins would be great.

The combination of a competent GM, and Snyders money(if he has no control) would be virtually unbeatable.

i 100% agree with you. but again, snyder is the one keeping vinny the village idiot around so i hold him responsible. if snyder hired a guy like pioli, gave him the keys, and opened his checkbook whenever piloi asked, we'd be much better off.

[MartinC]

so if these teams like the pats/steelers/eagles all have success because of their QB, couldnt you then assume that the owner was the one responsible for getting a smart football man to find said QBs? or is it just luck that these guys picked certain QBs over others?

calling lurie a bad owner because he wont waste a billion dollars on guys that could fail is not bad management in my opinion.

Getting a good QB is one part skill, one part really hard work and several parts good luck.

Most people agree that Ossie Newsome is a very good GM. Yet for years they tried to get a QB just like us and tried just about all the things we did with pretty similar results.

They traded a first round pick to move back into the 1st round to get a QB they liked, Kyle Boller, just like we did with Campbell. Struck out. They tried getting the Pro Bowl vet who had worn out his welcome in McNair just like we did with Brunnel. Some good some bad from both but not enough to take them over the top.

Then when they finally called time on the Boller era they went back to the draft again and drafted Flacco who looks like he might be the answer - but lets not close the book just yet.

Newsome also has not managed to hit on a wide receiver yet in the draft and had a few other questionable 1st round picks. However he hit the motherload the year he took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis.

Don't get me wrong I would be delighted if Newsome somehow became our GM but its still a crap shoot.

[Oldfan]

While acknowledging that judging QB talent is probably the most difficult job when drafting, it is not a crapshoot unless the person doing it knows little about judging QB talent.

Your chances of success are obviously better when someone like Jim Zorn is providing the expert opinion.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Getting a good QB is one part skill, one part really hard work and several parts good luck.

Most people agree that Ossie Newsome is a very good GM. Yet for years they tried to get a QB just like us and tried just about all the things we did with pretty similar results.

They traded a first round pick to move back into the 1st round to get a QB they liked, Kyle Boller, just like we did with Campbell. Struck out. They tried getting the Pro Bowl vet who had worn out his welcome in McNair just like we did with Brunnel. Some good some bad from both but not enough to take them over the top.

Then when they finally called time on the Boller era they went back to the draft again and drafted Flacco who looks like he might be the answer - but lets not close the book just yet.

Newsome also has not managed to hit on a wide receiver yet in the draft and had a few other questionable 1st round picks. However he hit the motherload the year he took Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis.

Don't get me wrong I would be delighted if Newsome somehow became our GM but its still a crap shoot.

newsome has built an incredible defense but has done a very poor job building that offense. no QBs, no WRs, no RBs. seems he only has an eye for the lines and the defense.

[MattFancy]

i 100% agree with you. but again, snyder is the one keeping vinny the village idiot around so i hold him responsible. if snyder hired a guy like pioli, gave him the keys, and opened his checkbook whenever piloi asked, we'd be much better off.

That wound be an interesting combo. If we had a smart football guy as a GM, plus Danny willing to spend, this team could be very good. Say what you want about Danny, but he's not afraid to spend money.

[tonyriggins]

We all want to win it.

The disconnect is you think it's Snyder's job to win it.

It's not. Snyder's job is to provide the people who's job it is to win it what they say they need to accomplish that goal. Nothing more. Nothing less. He owns the team. He doesn't control what it does on the field. He doesn't call plays. He doesn't prepare the team. He doesn't pick players. He funds the organization lavishly and responds to requests made of him. That is the mark of an owner who's doing what he's supposed to do.

Then why hasn't Snyder ever hired a General Manager? That is the owners job and he has NEVER done that!

[MartinC]

While acknowledging that judging QB talent is probably the most difficult job when drafting, it is not a crapshoot unless the person doing it knows little about judging QB talent.

Your chances of success are obviously better when someone like Jim Zorn is providing the expert opinion.

You improve your odds with superior talent evaluation no question - but its still a crap shoot. Ask Bobby Bethard (Leaf), Ossie Newsome (Boller), Charley Casserley (Shuler), etc etc.

[hail2skins]

See, we talk about QBs, and I go back to the example of the Steelers of the first decade of the Cowher era. I suppose that maybe some of that team was a carry-over from the end of the non-salary cap era like the Super Bowl Cowboy teams were, but when it came to the QB.......I don't think anyone would refer to Neil O'Donnell or Kordell Stewart as elite.

Yes, no rings were procured by the Steelers during this period, but it sure as hell easily surpassed anything we've accomplished in the past 10 years.

[Oldfan]

You improve your odds with superior talent evaluation no question - but its still a crap shoot. Ask Bobby Bethard (Leaf), Ossie Newsome (Boller), Charley Casserley (Shuler), etc etc.

Beathard missed on Ryan leaf because he wasn't thorough enough in his background research. He found out that Leaf was a head case too late.

I don't know why Newsome or Casserly would be considered experts on drafting QBs. Jim Zorn has the resume'.

[TheLongshot]

Then why hasn't Snyder ever hired a General Manager? That is the owners job and he has NEVER done that!

He's hired people in the past to run the football organization. They mostly have been head coaches, sure, but they have been given the power to mostly run things. I'm still not sure who was running things when Spurrier was here tho.

Vinny is probably the closest we've gotten to having a GM in that sense, but that's because there are some aspects of the football operation which Snyder reserves for himself (hiring/firing head coaches, doing the negotiations for FAs), and that probably will always be true no matter who is running the football operation.

[MartinC]

Beathard missed on Ryan leaf because he wasn't thorough enough in his background research. He found out that Leaf was a head case too late.

I don't know why Newsome or Casserly would be considered experts on drafting QBs. Jim Zorn has the resume'.

Newsome had Brian Billick who was the hot offensive guru at that time after his work with Culpepper at the Vikings but OK how about Tom Flores taking Rick Mirer in '93. Or Chris Palmer taking Tim Couch number 1 overall in '99. Or Steve Mariucci taking Joey Harrington.

I could go on.

You are right that having someone who knows QBs and and understands what he needs for his system will improve your odds. But you are still rolling the dice.

[Art]

Then why hasn't Snyder ever hired a General Manager? That is the owners job and he has NEVER done that!

No it's not. A number of teams have no GM. New England for example.

[Art]

i 100% agree with you. but again, snyder is the one keeping vinny the village idiot around so i hold him responsible. if snyder hired a guy like pioli, gave him the keys, and opened his checkbook whenever piloi asked, we'd be much better off.

Pioli has never made a personnel call in his life. He's been Belichick's lapdog for twenty years. KC is his first shot being the actual man. Pioli has actually been in a very similar position to Vinny in that he was never the an in charge.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Pioli has never made a personnel call in his life. He's been Belichick's lapdog for twenty years. KC is his first shot being the actual man. Pioli has actually been in a very similar position to Vinny in that he was never the an in charge.

so now piloi was just a lapdog? i guess he wasnt in charge of scouting and was not the director of player personnel, or the vice president of personnel? you referred to belichick as a "loser coach" earlier in this thread, and im pretty sure you referred to pioli as a "loser personnel guy". exactly who is making decisions in new england? one of these "losers" sure is.

[Art]

so now piloi was just a lapdog? i guess he wasnt in charge of scouting and was not the director of player personnel, or the vice president of personnel? you referred to belichick as a "loser coach" earlier in this thread, and im pretty sure you referred to pioli as a "loser personnel guy". exactly who is making decisions in new england? one of these "losers" sure is.

That is all he's ever been. He's always trailed around with Belichick as his guy. Before the eureka of Brady, he and Belichick were career losers. Belichick was 5 of 6 seasons I believe with 10 or more losses on his way to another. Brady cures all ill.

Let's put it this way. If Bledsoe wasn't hurt, you'd be wondering which team in the league Belichick was a defensive coordinator for today. Fortunes change. The common thing with everyone you seem to respect is QB. There may not be 15 good QBs in the league right now. It's not an easy spot to find.

At the end of the day the simple fact is Snyder does more for his team as owner to make it competitive than any other owner does. One could argue Jones, but as he's the actual GM, he simply rates poorly because of it. The love you have for Kraft is because he hired a coach who'd lost 10 or more games 4 of 5 seasons at his previous job and was doing it again in New England before Brady.

As if Kraft had anything to do with that. Hell, as if Belichick had anything to do with that. Or Pioli. That's blind luck. Though Cerrato wasn't responsible, solely, for the Brennan pick, if Colt is Brady, in five years you're talking about how remarkable Snyder is. And you'll sound just as dumb as you do now. It's no more complex than that.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That is all he's ever been. He's always trailed around with Belichick as his guy. Before the eureka of Brady, he and Belichick were career losers. Belichick was 5 of 6 seasons I believe with 10 or more losses on his way to another. Brady cures all ill.

Let's put it this way. If Bledsoe wasn't hurt, you'd be wondering which team in the league Belichick was a defensive coordinator for today. Fortunes change. The common thing with everyone you seem to respect is QB. There may not be 15 good QBs in the league right now. It's not an easy spot to find.

At the end of the day the simple fact is Snyder does more for his team as owner to make it competitive than any other owner does. One could argue Jones, but as he's the actual GM, he simply rates poorly because of it. The love you have for Kraft is because he hired a coach who'd lost 10 or more games 4 of 5 seasons at his previous job and was doing it again in New England before Brady.

As if Kraft had anything to do with that. Hell, as if Belichick had anything to do with that. Or Pioli. That's blind luck. Though Cerrato wasn't responsible, solely, for the Brennan pick, if Colt is Brady, in five years you're talking about how remarkable Snyder is. And you'll sound just as dumb as you do now. It's no more complex than that.

youre being so nearsided with this though. youre acting like the only pick theyve ever hit on was tom brady, which makes you look ridiculous. theyve drafted the best 3-4 dline in football, theyve field a great defense for years, all built by "the losers". theyve gone out and made ridiculous FA pickups that make them look like geniuses. randy moss for a 4th? when vinny makes a deal like that give me a call. wes welker for a 2nd? last 2nd we traded was for jason taylor, and we signed him for 8 mil, and now hes playing on close to a vet min contract (not a shocker). theyve done far more than just found brady dude, you really need to stop belittling their achievements to make your snyder argument stronger.

theyve used the draft extremely well building their oline and dline, finding gems all over the place, hell they drafted the defensive rookie of the year, they drafted cassel and he lit it up last year and was traded for a 2nd rounder. the pats do everything right, its not just brady. the saints have drew brees and they are proof that it takes more than a great QB to win championships.

and no matter how good colt looks, ill never claim vinny is good at his job, or snyder. until i see sustained winning seasons will i think they are doing something right. theyve been floundering around for 10 years, but i guess results really hurt your argument, so we can throw those out too.

[MikeBass]

Snyder will be fine...Hall of famer George Preston Marshall got his on the front end but declined on the back end but no one is questioning how great a owner he was after going almost 30 years without a winning record.

We were 5 years without a playoff appearance before the Snyder era until he gave us 3 in the last 12.

Our fans as well as the rest of the NFL will be singing his praises soon enough.

[RedSunday]

i 100% agree with you. but again, snyder is the one keeping vinny the village idiot around so i hold him responsible. if snyder hired a guy like pioli, gave him the keys, and opened his checkbook whenever piloi asked, we'd be much better off.

THank You !!! It's moves like this one last year that make us(Snyder) look stupid!

"Bill Parcells has to be smiling now. The Dolphins architect traded Taylor for a second-round pick last year, set the blueprint for raising the franchise out of its 1-15 ashes, and now has the player he took with Washington's pick in addition to Taylor to defend the AFC East title.":mad:

[Art]

youre being so nearsided with this though. youre acting like the only pick theyve ever hit on was tom brady, which makes you look ridiculous. theyve drafted the best 3-4 dline in football, theyve field a great defense for years, all built by "the losers". theyve gone out and made ridiculous FA pickups that make them look like geniuses. randy moss for a 4th? when vinny makes a deal like that give me a call. wes welker for a 2nd? last 2nd we traded was for jason taylor, and we signed him for 8 mil, and now hes playing on close to a vet min contract (not a shocker). theyve done far more than just found brady dude, you really need to stop belittling their achievements to make your snyder argument stronger.

theyve used the draft extremely well building their oline and dline, finding gems all over the place, hell they drafted the defensive rookie of the year, they drafted cassel and he lit it up last year and was traded for a 2nd rounder. the pats do everything right, its not just brady. the saints have drew brees and they are proof that it takes more than a great QB to win championships.

and no matter how good colt looks, ill never claim vinny is good at his job, or snyder. until i see sustained winning seasons will i think they are doing something right. theyve been floundering around for 10 years, but i guess results really hurt your argument, so we can throw those out too.

Brady transformed them. Once he did, he helped establish them. Once a team is established it can build within a system and such teams, with stability, are always a good bet to be competitive and functioning. Brady allowed Belichick not to get fired. After which, they were able to build players within their specific system. Knowing what you need and who fits, over time, allows you a stable platform to build upon, which, ultimately sets you above other teams. Teams with such platforms are all founded on solid QB play to achieve them.

Reid would have been fired if McNabb turned out differently. Same with Belichick and Brady. The Colts would be the Lions if Manning wasn't Peyton. Once you hit on that spot, everything else flows. Now, what the Steelers did when hiring Tomlin and retaining their defensive foundation was to say they had a successful system in place to draft for and they wanted to maintain it and let Tomlin tinker with it.

We did the same with Blache when Gibbs left. That system is functioning. We have an idea how to get players for it. An idea who works. Who doesn't. It's certainly been the strongest thing we've had over the last 10 years really, though the system is different now and for the last five, obviously.

Pioli's pick in this draft is his effort to find a player to fit a specific system. If the system doesn't work and they can't get it going there, Pioli will be fired and remembered for blowing the most important pick he had, no matter how good Jackson might be in a 3-4, because they will convert to something else.

Vinny has played a role in providing very good players for the various people he's worked for and with. He's the least of our concerns. It is not, for example, Vinny's failure that couldn't generate an working offense with very good level talent at a number of positions.

While it is true it takes more than an elite QB to become championship level, it requires a top QB to be competitive consistently in this league.