Jason Campbell Is Our Starting QB, So Let's Be Optimistic About It...

[Morneblade]

^^ Nice add to this thread :applause:

While I don't agree that Campbell's sack total is high because he stands "tall in the pocket" (makes it sound like the O-line more than held its own lol), I do think they give some of the same reasons for optimism that the quotes and links in the opening post hinted at. :yes:

I agree, I saw him getting hit on the last step on his 3 step drop a couple of times last year. If that is hold on to the ball for too long, I'm glad I dont play QB.:laugh:

I also agree with your assesment of our O-line. We're overall a better run-blocking team than pass blocking. Heyer is the excpetion, he is pretty good in pass blocking, but marginal as a run blocker. Our left side was really pretty solid in run blocking with Kendall and Sameuls. I think we'll miss Kendall some this year. Dock is phyically more talented, but hasnt played like it yet. I hope he gets it this year.

[RandyHolt]

Certainly a teams offensive line is a major part of how a QB plays. I think we are facing mediocrity at best on the OL. And thats ok, but only if Zorn can adjust. I personally think our blitz pick up has been horrible. Easily seen by watching when we blitz the opposing QB with the same amount of guys, its a feeble effort and failure. Over and over, year after year.

Zorn needs to calls plays that dont expose the weaknesses of the offensive line, and ones that dont cater to the strengths of the pass rush. I just see him running his offense blindly into a train wreck at times. Work the screen, ROLL Jason out, use the shotgun so he is not sidestepping into his drop with a LB running along side him. We just refuse to do things to slow down the blitz. All we do is throw the short quick pass; a recipe for a yet another mediocre passing game is upon us.

Change it up Zorn, work the shotgun, work the hurry up; get a fat slow DT stuck on the field and pass pass pass. If the WCO cannot exploit the D using such basic tools, it just puts more pressure on Jason to be superman. And that is not fair.

[Koolblue13]

I like JC and think he really takes his game to the next level this season, gets a great contract and stays here for years.

I want to be on record saying that as well.

Seeing this thread, about a hangdog optimism, frustrates me greatly.

[RocketCitySkins]

JC used to stand tall in the pocket. Now Zorn has him playing "compact" which makes no sense to me.

I was watching a game last year, not Redskins, and Madden was comparing quarterbacks. He showed three pics on the screen, Brady, Romo sits to pee and Cutler, and then drew a straight line down the back of all three and praised the way they all "stood tall in the pocket".

I've seen an article already on Daniels this year where he talked about the way Zorn has him bending his knees and playing compact when he drops back and how awkward it feels.

I always thought height was an advantage for a quarterback. Why not use it?

[honejc]

correct me if i am wrong, since i am no football player

zorn has his people playing low, now what he means/intends, i believe is that when the the quaterback drops back, zorn wants them to go low and compact, so that when need be, they will be mobile and have a stable base. since the lower teh center of grav, the hard to knock over. that way in the face of an oncoming rush, the qb will be ready to shed tackles and move out. exhibit a: saints game week 4? when campbell had that 67 yd td pass to moss. campbell was able to maneuver around and shed a tackle yet maintain his balance.

thats what i think why zorn has them playing low. zorn was a qb and all qb have a diff style of play.

[Passizle]

And yet more incoherent ramble. You're saying Jason Campbell is in a better situation than Drew Brees, but you rather have Drew Brees' supporting cast over Jason Campbell. That makes absolutely no sense and it looks like you're trying to cover up for your stupid comment.

Meanwhile, you call Brandon Lloyd Christmas' post stupid for saying the difference on the Cardinals is that they had Kurt Warner, and then mention Warner by name in referring to their 9-7 record, then give the defense credit for the postseason, and now you claim you meant nothing about Warner at all. Again, that makes absolutely no sense and it looks like you're trying to cover up for another stupid comment.

As for your last post, if you really have a problem with me in discussions, then you must be really stupid to call me out and bring me in. It's obvious you had an axe to grind for the past times I cyberslapped you throughout various threads because I definitely wasn't posting anything negative about Jason Campbell when you entered this thread, despite the fact that you decided to call me a "hater" with "stupid" and "weak ass arguments" concerning Campbell.

I ask again, why did you feel the need to type my name?

Why do you persist to antagonize me? Just leave it alone already. I think what I said was VERY clear... and you dont understand it, I cant really help you in that department. So be it.

Stop attention whoring, and stick to the subject. You have successfully hijacked yet another thread into how you can "cyberslap" people real good and have proved that you are an "internet tough guy". I get it. Now put another notch on your belt and feel better about yourself for today. I will not engage you further. Its a waste of board space and my time. Peace brother...

[Passizle]

Certainly a teams offensive line is a major part of how a QB plays. I think we are facing mediocrity at best on the OL. And thats ok, but only if Zorn can adjust. I personally think our blitz pick up has been horrible. Easily seen by watching when we blitz the opposing QB with the same amount of guys, its a feeble effort and failure. Over and over, year after year.

Zorn needs to calls plays that dont expose the weaknesses of the offensive line, and ones that dont cater to the strengths of the pass rush. I just see him running his offense blindly into a train wreck at times. Work the screen, ROLL Jason out, use the shotgun so he is not sidestepping into his drop with a LB running along side him. We just refuse to do things to slow down the blitz. All we do is throw the short quick pass; a recipe for a yet another mediocre passing game is upon us.

Change it up Zorn, work the shotgun, work the hurry up; get a fat slow DT stuck on the field and pass pass pass. If the WCO cannot exploit the D using such basic tools, it just puts more pressure on Jason to be superman. And that is not fair.

Great post. I agree with alot of what you said. I would like to see more rollouts too. Especially if the line is getting creamed. Its always harder to hit a moving target.

[Passizle]

JC used to stand tall in the pocket. Now Zorn has him playing "compact" which makes no sense to me.

I was watching a game last year, not Redskins, and Madden was comparing quarterbacks. He showed three pics on the screen, Brady, Romo sits to pee and Cutler, and then drew a straight line down the back of all three and praised the way they all "stood tall in the pocket".

I've seen an article already on Daniels this year where he talked about the way Zorn has him bending his knees and playing compact when he drops back and how awkward it feels.

I always thought height was an advantage for a quarterback. Why not use it?

Standing tall is a great aspect of the game... IF you have a good line that allows you to stand still.

Our has fallen off that way. I am hoping for some resemblance of the 2005 line with Dock back... and hopefully Williams pans out.

But until then,JC has to play like a would spring with the ability to bounce out if needed. My hope is that he can progress through his reads quicker. I saw alot of holding the ball to long last year. Especially towards he latter half of the season when time was not on his side.

[Morneblade]

JC used to stand tall in the pocket. Now Zorn has him playing "compact" which makes no sense to me.

I was watching a game last year, not Redskins, and Madden was comparing quarterbacks. He showed three pics on the screen, Brady, Romo sits to pee and Cutler, and then drew a straight line down the back of all three and praised the way they all "stood tall in the pocket".

I've seen an article already on Daniels this year where he talked about the way Zorn has him bending his knees and playing compact when he drops back and how awkward it feels.

I always thought height was an advantage for a quarterback. Why not use it?

I think it's more about having JC in a more athletic position. Standing "tall" with your knees locked doesnt allow you to move well, or quickly. With Campbell at 6'5, doing that doesnt really affect him. Chase at 6'0 is a different story though, he's going to have a tough time throwing over the D-line as it is. But it comes down to how the coach teaches. Zorn as a player, was a very moblie QB. He reminded me alot of Fran Tarkington, he wasnt the typical "pocket passer". It might come from his playing days.

[RandyHolt]

IIRC correctly Jason broke those tackles by stepping up into the pocket. Certainly knees slightly bent and a stronger stance may have helped him in that step up. We all see more unorthodox QB's do the same and more. I really didnt see a problem with Jason's legs to be honest. The biggest "problem" was that Jason had a long slow delivery, not well suited for the WCO.

The bigger problem is Jason forced to squat so far under rabach it looks like he is taking a dump. THAT is a much bigger problem then him not slightly bending his legs before passing. But Jason is all arm, he really doesnt need to use his legs to throw. Look at his collegiate completions with legs straight. Its just asking for trouble tweaking him so much for that short pass offense. I am starting to hate the west coast.

[Passizle]

IIRC correctly Jason broke those tackles by stepping up into the pocket. Certainly knees slightly bent and a stronger stance may have helped him in that step up. We all see more unorthodox QB's do the same and more. I really didnt see a problem with Jason's legs to be honest. The biggest "problem" was that Jason had a long slow delivery, not well suited for the WCO.

The bigger problem is Jason forced to squat so far under rabach it looks like he is taking a dump. THAT is a much bigger problem then him not slightly bending his legs before passing. But Jason is all arm, he really doesnt need to use his legs to throw. Look at his collegiate completions with legs straight. Its just asking for trouble tweaking him so much for that short pass offense. I am starting to hate the west coast.

Totally agree. I liek Rabach, but if we are to keep JC, I think we need a taller center. You description had me laughing a bit, as I remember clearly how low JC has to squat to get under Rabach. It DOE look like he is taking a dump... maybe thats the reason for all the DUMP-offs. Yeah. I know that was bad. Qeue the gong...

[Morneblade]

IIRC correctly Jason broke those tackles by stepping up into the pocket. Certainly knees slightly bent and a stronger stance may have helped him in that step up. We all see more unorthodox QB's do the same and more. I really didnt see a problem with Jason's legs to be honest. The biggest "problem" was that Jason had a long slow delivery, not well suited for the WCO.

The bigger problem is Jason forced to squat so far under rabach it looks like he is taking a dump. THAT is a much bigger problem then him not slightly bending his legs before passing. But Jason is all arm, he really doesnt need to use his legs to throw. Look at his collegiate completions with legs straight. Its just asking for trouble tweaking him so much for that short pass offense. I am starting to hate the west coast.

I cant say I'm a fan of the WCO either. But it's here and we might as well get used to the idea. I do like Zorn though, always have. I hope he makes it work.:cool:

[Califan007 The Constipated]

correct me if i am wrong, since i am no football player

zorn has his people playing low, now what he means/intends, i believe is that when the the quaterback drops back, zorn wants them to go low and compact, so that when need be, they will be mobile and have a stable base. since the lower teh center of grav, the hard to knock over. that way in the face of an oncoming rush, the qb will be ready to shed tackles and move out. exhibit a: saints game week 4? when campbell had that 67 yd td pass to moss. campbell was able to maneuver around and shed a tackle yet maintain his balance.

thats what i think why zorn has them playing low. zorn was a qb and all qb have a diff style of play.

That's basically how I understood it, too :yes:...

[RandyHolt]

Totally agree. I liek Rabach, but if we are to keep JC, I think we need a taller center. You description had me laughing a bit, as I remember clearly how low JC has to squat to get under Rabach. It DOE look like he is taking a dump... maybe thats the reason for all the DUMP-offs. Yeah. I know that was bad. Qeue the gong...

GONG. It slows down the offense and it slows him down. The defense gets that tiny bit more of a jump on our play, every single play (since we abhor the shotgun). His legs are just bent so much and thus has to stand up more than probably any other QB in the league. Before he can go into his methodical 3 step drop, he has a long ways to go before he is in a position to throw a quick pass. Every single play, like clock work.

Not to mention any chance of him seeing the field better presnap being tall is thrown out the window. I had lobby'd to move Jansen to center to kill two birds with one stone. Oh well. It just looks awkward and is awkward. Zorn has talked about it so there is hope.

It may not seem like much but I think it is. The first .2 seconds of every play is devoted to poor Jason going from 4ft tall to 6'5" tall. Fast defensive ends and blitzer's are teeing off in obvious passing downs with poor Jason trapped under center do or die. Didnt he get stepped on a few times.

GO shotgun sometimes Zorn, and not just in the final 59 seconds of the half.

[Morneblade]

I would love to see more shotgun, and more roll outs. Back to the "knees" thing.

I played alot of sports growing up, and was pretty good at all of them. Basketball, Football, Soccer and Tennis were my main ones. In all of those, two of the most important things you need to do are "move your feet" and "bend your knees". Isnt it odd that QB's are taught to stand tall and keep their feet planted? I remember when Manning came out of UT and who everyone was all over the fact that he continually moved his feet (you never heard that at UT of course). I thought it made sence, since he could adjust his body much better to pressure and also in getting his body in a position to throw the ball on a secondary read.

[RandyHolt]

I cant say I'm a fan of the WCO either. But it's here and we might as well get used to the idea. I do like Zorn though, always have. I hope he makes it work.:cool:

I like Zorn. Really, how can you not. He may have the hardest job on the planet keeping Danno and Vinny happy. I still dont understand the move to the west coast though. We change up the passing game after everyone seemingly figured out Saunders ****, but keep the riggo running game. Making Jason learn a new passing offense that doesnt cater to his strengths so much that we have to retweak his arms and legs - basically all his mechanics... just seems like the workings of a rookie head coach. Oh yeah, he was a rookie head coach. I really fear the WCO and Zorn will get canned right when Jason masters it resulting from the impatience of the front office.

[zCommander]

our i line is weak..

What the hell in an I line??? Interior???

[jimster]

we have the best I line in the NFL.

[NewCliche21]

we have the best I line in the NFL.

Definitely.

The Higs are amazing.

[Morneblade]

if i could play bass all day long instead of posting here i would. im waiting on an ampeg 2x15 in the mail today to go with my 8x10 and 300 watt tube head.

*blows windows out of my house*

What kind of bass do you have? Now you have opened a can of worms in which you will never close!

Muhahahahahaha!

[flixk]

I'd be optimistic if the good/bad order was switched. If JC was bad in the 1st half, but got really good in the 2nd half of the season after he spent more time in the offense. But because it wasn't I have exactly zero optimism for him and his play.

Progression good. Regression bad.

Then, I guess you should be pessimistic about Clinton Portis going into this season, as well. It's no coincidence that Portis and Campbell started regressing at the same time. The O-line was crumbling and both were victims of the lookout block. "LOOK OUT!!!"

Give him 3-4 seconds to throw the ball and you'll see exactly what he's made of.

At least now, he's got his 4th system fully down pat, so he can improvise a little in situations where he only has 1.5 seconds to throw the ball...like the majority of the 2nd half of last season.

[HighOnHendrix]

Or that you think "average" is Tom Brady.

WINNER!

[Mahons21]

Then, I guess you should be pessimistic about Clinton Portis going into this season, as well. It's no coincidence that Portis and Campbell started regressing at the same time. The O-line was crumbling and both were victims of the lookout block. "LOOK OUT!!!"

Give him 3-4 seconds to throw the ball and you'll see exactly what he's made of.

At least now, he's got his 4th system fully down pat, so he can improvise a little in situations where he only has 1.5 seconds to throw the ball...like the majority of the 2nd half of last season.

-So I guess you didn't see how teams stacked the box, and played press coverage for the majority of the second half of last season against us?

-This puts Portis in a very difficult position trying to run against an 8 man front consistently... It also creates the situation where the D is more or less daring Campbell to go deep with the ball, playing up tight on our speedy receivers and giving them a good bump on the line... What happens when the skins face this D? I think we all saw..

[RandyHolt]

when teams stack the box, offenses that get stiffled need to adjust. We just kept running portis up between the tackles and throwing the short slant to Moss. It failed miserably. We were predictable on offense in the second half of the season. Zorn could have evolved. Instead he stayed conservative. Zorn could have countered with going 4 or 5 wide, use the shotgun, shock the defense and go hurry up. Instead we played right into the defenses game plan. Instead we tried the TE reverse to Fred Davis :doh:

[RocketCitySkins]

when teams stack the box, offenses that get stiffled need to adjust. We just kept running portis up between the tackles and throwing the short slant to Moss. It failed miserably. We were predictable on offense in the second half of the season. Zorn could have evolved. Instead he stayed conservative. Zorn could have countered with going 4 or 5 wide, use the shotgun, shock the defense and go hurry up. Instead we played right into the defenses game plan. Instead we tried the TE reverse to Fred Davis :doh:

According to Moss in an interview in March, Zorn tried to find something different that worked.

"Well, we started off hot. I felt like we could have done a lot of things. But once defenses started changing schemes to take me out of the game and blitz a lot more, it just seemed like we couldn't get over that hump. It kind of shook what Jason Campbell and I were doing down a little bit and made us go into a drought. (Coach Jim Zorn) did everything that he could do to try and get us out of that situation, but it was just one of those things where we got so far into that hole that we couldn't climb out.