redman Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I don't know how much of these pre-draft stories to believe or not to believe, but I certainly know that trading up to draft Sanchez is an awful idea given the cost involved, and even drafting him with the 13th pick if he fell would be bad given our other needs and the ability of this draft class to help address them with that pick. Regardless, it's also occurring to me that this Sanchez soap opera, if it turns out to be true, is bad for another reason. We've already watched over the years Snyder's meddling with the organization's chain of command. He considers himself "hands on", but that assumes he has some level of competence to run an football organization's operations. He doesn't. What it's meant in practical terms is that he's invited certain select players - always moody stars - into his inner circle, giving them direct access to him rather than restricting communications with him through his coaching staff or at the GM-agent level. We saw this most poignantly with Arrington, and there have been grumblings about this with regards to Portis, who fortunately is actually a talented team player on the field, unlike the free lancing Arrington. But regarding Sanchez, is there any doubt that he'd be drafted to be Danny's Buddy? Are we now trying (once again) to not only build a team around a QB (instead of linemen), but also do so with a QB who is already presumed to be a star-in-waiting and will be treated as such? This whole thing disgusts me. I've largely defended Snyder for a decade now, but if these Sanchez rumors turn out to be true I can't do that any longer. This would just be one more of Snyder's sophomoric love affairs with a football player rather than an objective football decision made at arms length for the betterment of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I am glad that Redman can see what's going on. I don't like the Sanchez move at all, we would be starting over again next year, or this year depending on what they would do with Campbell. This move would be a drastic mistake. With the 3 glaring holes we already have, we would be not filling any of those, so it can't be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 This whole thing disgusts me. I've largely defended Snyder for a decade now, but if these Sanchez rumors turn out to be true I can't do that any longer. This would just be one more of Snyder's sophomoric love affairs with a football player rather than an objective football decision made at arms length for the betterment of the roster. _______________________________________________ Great post Redman, I agree, but I never feel in love with Snyder from the beginning. I thought he was learning something especially under Gibbs, but wow, this guy is really take a step back if he trades to get Sanchez and gives up alot. I fear he is going to be fleeced and has become a common target. Kinda like the odd kid on the playground always giving up his lunch money so others tell him they like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Very astute observation. If the owner is buddy buddy with the players (like Jerry was with the Cowboys in the 1990s) it emasculates the coach. The coach ultimatley has to be able to disciplinie, bench and motivate these guys If the player can go to Jerry, or Dan, the coach loses that ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The sooner we come to terms with the fact that we started over by not hiring Gregg Williams and keeping Al Saunders, the better. Campbell was Gibbs' guy. The idea that we could keep the same offensive components and at the same time completely change the offensive philosophy...with success, was and is ridiculous. It's time to let go of JC...and it's probably time to let go of ARE, and get a true #1 WR. But it all starts with a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I agree to an extent. I certainly wasn't happy to hear about Snyder and Portis hanging out in Vegas. We know the outcome of the Lavar thing - which became personal between the two of them (I'm convinced) b/c of their relationship outside of boss-employee. But- I'm in favor of getting Sanchez . I do hope that he gets the same treatment from Snyder that all the other players get though, to your point (which is a good one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 This would just be one more of Snyder's sophomoric love affairs with a football player rather than an objective football decision made at arms length for the betterment of the roster. Based on the trade value that other NFL executives and coaches have place on our current QB, the sophomoric love affair is a more appropriate label for our resident JC apologists. We have a mediocre at best QB entering his last year of a contract. Any reasonable fan would want other options available to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 The sooner we come to terms with the fact that we started over by not hiring Gregg Williams and keeping Al Saunders, the better. Campbell was Gibbs' guy. The idea that we could keep the same offensive components and at the same time completely change the offensive philosophy...with success, was and is ridiculous. It's time to let go of JC...and it's probably time to let go of ARE, and get a true #1 WR. But it all starts with a QB. My post has nothing to do with JC, though I still believe he's worth our while to continue to develop him. Even if you've given up on JC, however, you can't be happy with the Sanchez rumors for all of the reasons mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 My post has nothing to do with JC, though I still believe he's worth our while to continue to develop him. Even if you've given up on JC, however, you can't be happy with the Sanchez rumors for all of the reasons mentioned. Yeah, I agree with what you are saying about Snyder hobnobbing with the players. My point was...we are starting over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Well, that's a good point, but it's an issue that is always going to exist with this team as long as Snyder owns it. Snyder gets to sit at the cafeteria table with the jocks now. And he - like Mark Cuban before him - is going to take advantage of that. By the way, there is a slightly different psychology behind Snyder than behind Jones. Jones is buddy-buddy with his players because Jones is an ex-jock and still thinks like a jock. Snyder, I think, just wants to be seen as cool for once. And, in fairnes, hanging out in a Vegas VIP room with Clinton Portis is pretty goddamn cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 My bigger point is that complaning about this is battling windmills. It's Snyder's toy. It makes him money. But, more importantly, it makes him happy. I think he is simply not designed to sit in his box like Dan Rooney, set a philosophy, and let everyone do their jobs with minimal interference. He tried that with Marty and was visibly unhappy. And - again in fairness to Snyder - what's the point in owning an NFL team if it is not fun? The same thing applies to Vinny. It's clear that he and Vinny have a relationship that goes way way beyond football. And the love seems to be reciprocal. I don't think Snyder can separate himself from Vinny any more than Vinny can separate himself from Snyder. (And there is also the possiblility that Snyder bankrupted Vinny with this Six Flags stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeApe Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I agree with your point, but that is a Snyder problem and not a Sanchez problem. JC is as good as gone (regardless of how well he performs this year). So, if it isn't Sanchez this year, it's Bradford (or fill in blank) next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Well' date=' that's a good point, but it's an issue that is always going to exist with this team as long as Snyder owns it.Snyder gets to sit at the cafeteria table with the jocks now. And he - like Mark Cuban before him - is going to take advantage of that. By the way, there is a slightly different psychology behind Snyder than behind Jones. Jones is buddy-buddy with his players because Jones is an ex-jock and still thinks like a jock. Snyder, I think, just wants to be seen as cool for once. And, in fairnes, hanging out in a Vegas VIP room with Clinton Portis is pretty goddamn cool.[/quote'] I'm no Jones fan (I detest him, actually) but I'm not aware of him "hanging out with players" in any non-football venue (e.g. sidelines, locker room or at Valley Ranch). Regardless, Snyder bears far too close of a resemblance to Jerry Jones as an owner for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawBBQSauce Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Yeah, I agree with what you are saying about Snyder hobnobbing with the players. My point was...we are starting over. I don't think the Sanchez deal would be considered "starting over". If you watch the SC offense, there are definite similarities between that offense and the Skins offense. Sanchez is a play-maker, JC is not. I think we could plug Sanchez in next year and get very solid production. Campbell's only successful year playing football was his senior season at Auburn, a year where he had an outstanding offensive line. There are only a couple select teams in the NFL that have outstanding lines. Look at Matt Ryan. Who plays on the Falcons offensive line? Does anyone know? Hmm? The reality is, we need a guy back there who is a leader. I don't EVER see Jason Campbell stepping up and being the unquestioned leader of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 My bigger point is that complaning about this is battling windmills. It's Snyder's toy. It makes him money. But' date=' more importantly, it makes him happy. I think he is simply not designed to sit in his box like Dan Rooney, set a philosophy, and let everyone do their jobs with minimal interference. He tried that with Marty and was visibly unhappy.And - again in fairness to Snyder - what's the point in owning an NFL team if it is not fun? The same thing applies to Vinny. It's clear that he and Vinny have a relationship that goes way way beyond football. And the love seems to be reciprocal. I don't think Snyder can separate himself from Vinny any more than Vinny can separate himself from Snyder. (And there is also the possiblility that Snyder bankrupted Vinny with this Six Flags stuff). Snyder sort of tried it with Marty, but he went too far in the other direction by giving total control (including GM responsibilities, which I've never liked) to a megalomaniac who acted as if he owned the team. He also handed control to Gibbs, a much more moderate and humble personality and not coincidentally the team experienced more success during that era than it has otherwise. As for the "what's the point in owning an NFL team if it is not fun?" question, it's obviously his right to own and run the team however he wants and for whatever purpose he wants, but if he wants me as a customer and fan, far more attention needs to be paid to achieving on-field success rather than owner's box "fun". I might add that Synder has always said that he's all about winning. It sounds like you don't believe that that's his highest priority, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I completely agree with everything you said...other than implying Arrington wasn't talented on the field. But either way, yeah, this is just a terrible idea and I really don't want to see this go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The sooner we come to terms with the fact that we started over by not hiring Gregg Williams and keeping Al Saunders, the better. Campbell was Gibbs' guy. The idea that we could keep the same offensive components and at the same time completely change the offensive philosophy...with success, was and is ridiculous. It's time to let go of JC...and it's probably time to let go of ARE, and get a true #1 WR. But it all starts with a QB. IF we had Williams as HC and Saunders as the OC I doubt we would even be discussing any of this because Jason wouldn't be starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I might add that Synder has always said that he's all about winning. It sounds like you don't believe that that's his highest priority, am I right? I think he desperately wants to win. But I think he wants to win his way. And by "his way," I mean being involved. Likewise, I think Dan Rooney wants to win "his way" - which means on budget. The same as Jerry Jones wants to win "his way" - which means having everyone praise Jerry Jones. There are owners who I don't think care much about winning - Bidwell, Mike Brown, etc. They view their football teams as the family department store. As long as it is in the black, they are happy. I think Snyder is psychologically fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 You guys might like getting sanchez but the skins need a backup plan at qb. If campbell sucks next year who is going to take over at qb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I think he desperately wants to win.But I think he wants to win his way. And by "his way' date='" I mean being involved. <snipped> I think Snyder is psychologically fascinating.[/quote'] Absolutely, spot-on, one-hundred percent correct. Snyder has got everyone believing he just wants to win, but not realizing that he has no interest in winning if it's not "his way". The man is a genius. He's managed to find a GM figure-head who will allow him to meddle as much as he wants and who will accept as much of the blame as possible for any of Snyder's meddling. He's also managed to make his team one of the most profitable in all of sports despite the fact that he's really just using it as his toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 You guys might like getting sanchez but the skins need a backup plan at qb. If campbell sucks next year who is going to take over at qb? COLT BRENNAN!! He will finally get his chance that everyone and their mother has been talking about for the past year. jesus why is that so hard to understand? draft some linemen and fill the gaping holes. give campbell another crack at it and if it doesnt work TRY COLT BRENNAN!! at least we dont waste a **** ton of draft picks this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jweisk1 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I don't know how much of these pre-draft stories to believe or not to believe, but I certainly know that trading up to draft Sanchez is an awful idea given the cost involved, and even drafting him with the 13th pick if he fell would be bad given our other needs and the ability of this draft class to help address them with that pick. Regardless, it's also occurring to me that this Sanchez soap opera, if it turns out to be true, is bad for another reason. We've already watched over the years Snyder's meddling with the organization's chain of command. He considers himself "hands on", but that assumes he has some level of competence to run an football organization's operations. He doesn't. What it's meant in practical terms is that he's invited certain select players - always moody stars - into his inner circle, giving them direct access to him rather than restricting communications with him through his coaching staff or at the GM-agent level. We saw this most poignantly with Arrington, and there have been grumblings about this with regards to Portis, who fortunately is actually a talented team player on the field, unlike the free lancing Arrington. But regarding Sanchez, is there any doubt that he'd be drafted to be Danny's Buddy? Are we now trying (once again) to not only build a team around a QB (instead of linemen), but also do so with a QB who is already presumed to be a star-in-waiting and will be treated as such? This whole thing disgusts me. I've largely defended Snyder for a decade now, but if these Sanchez rumors turn out to be true I can't do that any longer. This would just be one more of Snyder's sophomoric love affairs with a football player rather than an objective football decision made at arms length for the betterment of the roster. Nice Post....Sanchez (the player)isnt the issue...like you stated above its more the course we are willing to take to get big name players that arent truly a need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Another cake and eat it thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 jesus why is that so hard to understand? draft some linemen and fill the gaping holes. give campbell another crack at it and if it doesnt work TRY COLT BRENNAN!! at least we dont waste a **** ton of draft picks this way It seems more than obvious that Zorn doesn't think very much of Colt Brennan. He downplayed everything he did in the pre-season. He kept him as #3. He's doing all he can to get a new young QB in here (Cutler/Sanchez). I just think Brennan might be as mediocre as all the scouts said he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 It seems more than obvious that Zorn doesn't think very much of Colt Brennan. He downplayed everything he did in the pre-season. He kept him as #3. He's doing all he can to get a new young QB in here (Cutler/Sanchez).I just think Brennan might be as mediocre as all the scouts said he was. oh so now people want to admit that and hop off his bandwagon just as quick as they hopped on it... its nauseating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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