Pelosi Tells Illegal Immigrants That Work Site Raids are Un-American

[MurrayH81]

While I understand why they come, and the fact that they may not know or care of the illegality of their actions in coming here, I cannot in good faith, abandon our sovereignty, our system of laws, or my sense of fairness.

Illegal immigration needs to be curtailed. Those who assist them in coming, and those who provide the incentive to come (jobs) need to be aggressively pursued. Illegal immigrants need to be identified and if they have a family, that family can be returned to the illegal's point of origin.

I am okay with increasing legal immigration to handle the need for low wage labor. I am not okay with retaining people who came here illegally as the preferred personnel to fill those jobs. I don't want to jail them. I don't want to fine them. I want to send them to the back of the line.That appeals to my sense of fairness. It is certainly not fair that people who can walk across a border take jobs and immigration opportunities away from immigrants from other countries waiting to get into this country.

1. Secure the border.

2. Clamp down on the employers and illegal immigrant support systems.

3. Establish worker needs levels. If legal immigration cannot meet those needs, then establish a well regulated and maintained guest worker program.

4. Amend the entire "anchor baby" scenario, requiring both parents to prove that at the time of the birth, they were here legally. If no, the child is not a US Citizen.

5. Even if some family members are US citizens or here legally, if a parent of the family unit is not, the family can be kept together at the country of origin of the illegal immigrant, when they are returned there as a family.

I want people to work, I know immigrant labor forms an excellent labor source for both American business and for immigrant families. I do not want my tax dollars to support illegal immigrants, or those who refuse to merge in the melting pot (linguistically or culturally). I do not want other countries to use immigration to the US as a vehicle to move their violent, insane, or seriously ill people out of their internal systems.

Nancy is wrong. Identifying and apprehending criminal activity is very American.

[Big Mac Patty Wack]

Well, she has a point. What they do is pretty messed up. But you can't voice your personal opinion like that when she has the job she has.

Screw her job. She does it terribly anyway. That's what's wrong with American politics. In both parties for sure. Everyone is too concerned about saying the right thing so they can keep their job.

How is it "ver, very patriotic" to break major laws and steal jobs away from Americans? They're not just cleaning out garages. They have jobs real Americans need.

[Popeman38]

I agree with the speaker. Our immigration policy is Un-American and utterly hypocritical as is the prevailing nativist sentiment in this thread. Whether or not that sentiment is based on veiled racism can be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

Please. Enforcing existing law, no matter how "broken" you think they are is not un-American/nativist/racist. If an individual is in this country illegally, they should be captured and deported. They are breaking the law. You are up there on your high horse today, MJ.

The immigration system is broken. The immigration laws are unenforcable, outdated, and insufficient to meet our needs. They don't protect you, they don't keep out the thugs, they don't offer legal business solutions, but we go after innocent people who are simply trying to feed their families-something every damn one of you would do in their shoes.

We agree here. The laws are broken. A path to legal immigration needs to be easier to attain. And punishment/enforcement of immigration laws need to be harsher/easier. get caught here illegally, no work visa ever, no entry on visitation ever. Come here illegally once, never allowed here legally again.

Updating immigration laws would make a lot of sense (like Ronald Reagan did) and to his credit George W. Bush tried to, but he was unsuccessful purely based on irrational politics, not practicality.

Well, Bush failed because he didn't try to reform immigration laws. He tried to basicaaly make illegal immigration legal, with no possible way to enforce the changes.

[Midnight Judges]

Please. Enforcing existing law, no matter how "broken" you think they are is not un-American/nativist/racist. If an individual is in this country illegally, they should be captured and deported. They are breaking the law. You are up there on your high horse today, .

I am indeed on a high horse regarding our flawed immigration debate.

Sometimes the law is wrong. I don't blame folks at the federal agencies who are asked to do their jobs. I blame congress, and the nativist sentiment they are subservient to. Here in Virginia, oral sex is illegal. How American would it be for Virginia cops to bust into your bedroom and make sure you are following this law? Could it be that the law is wrong? No! -that would just reward all the sodomites!

Immigration law could have been made rational but it was defeated by folks who are hell-bent on retribution.

MJ.We agree here. The laws are broken. A path to legal immigration needs to be easier to attain. And punishment/enforcement of immigration laws need to be harsher/easier. get caught here illegally, no work visa ever, no entry on visitation ever. Come here illegally once, never allowed here legally again.

I am glad we are in partial agreement but I think your proposal is unrealistic. You will never be able to track everyone and with barring individuals forever, we would wind up exactly where we are now.

Well, Bush failed because he didn't try to reform immigration laws. He tried to basicaaly make illegal immigration legal, with no possible way to enforce the changes

And that makes his idea worse than the current system how? Because it doesn't exact revenge on those who broke the law? To me, revenge is a non-factor. It's our fault we created a system where people get ahead by breaking the law.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Well actually rights are limitations on the government's actions not actions certain people are allowed to do... but really it's more of the fact that due to political reasons our country does not have a pragmatic and coherent immigrations policy. It's easy to kick the crap out of the illegals, but we should really try to reform our immigration system so that this sort of thing isn't the primary way to reduce unwanted immigration.

It does not matter it is not Un American enforcing the Law that these ilegals broke by sneeking into this country.

[Midnight Judges]

While I understand why they come, and the fact that they may not know or care of the illegality of their actions in coming here, I cannot in good faith, abandon our sovereignty, our system of laws, or my sense of fairness.

Illegal immigration needs to be curtailed. Those who assist them in coming, and those who provide the incentive to come (jobs) need to be aggressively pursued. Illegal immigrants need to be identified and if they have a family, that family can be returned to the illegal's point of origin.

I am okay with increasing legal immigration to handle the need for low wage labor. I am not okay with retaining people who came here illegally as the preferred personnel to fill those jobs. I don't want to jail them. I don't want to fine them. I want to send them to the back of the line.That appeals to my sense of fairness. It is certainly not fair that people who can walk across a border take jobs and immigration opportunities away from immigrants from other countries waiting to get into this country.

1. Secure the border.

Let me stop you right there. That would cost a minimum of $50 billion a year, with start up costs several times that. You would need hundreds of thousands of new federal Government workers, each of which would require training, benefits, vehicles, facilities, etc. It would be a decade before it effectively kept people out, if ever.

Yes, I've seen Republicans claim it could be done for $6 billion. That's a joke.

In other words, easier said than done (and cheaper).

[Prosperity]

It does not matter it is not Un American enforcing the Law that these ilegals broke by sneeking into this country.

enforcing them? No not at all

but the laws themselves are counter productive and need to be reformed

[Renegade7]

I disagree with her on a lot of things and this is one of them. But if you really want to address the problem, like somone posted earlier, you have to go after the employers, and stop pretending to give a damn by doing little raids on construction sites. Pelois is probably thinking amnesty for illegals, but doing these little raids are fruitless and won't fix anything.

[deejaydana]

Pelosi, it can be said with ZERO embellishment, is a joke and a fraud. Don't come out and grandstand like this w/nothing behind your words. What needs to happen is immigration reform(including a structured/defined path to citizenship) but we've yet to see any politician do anything more than just get in front of a mic and bloviate (and nobody has more windbag potential than Pelosi). Clearly corporate America (which is in essence Congress) want to make us feel they take this seriously but they do gain from the cheap labor (we do to but that's another debate for another time). This issue is much more complex than most people give it credit for being. It's certainly not black and white though it's easy to treat it like it is. Pelosi using the words she does however marginalizes & diminishes the border agents and other officials whose job it is to enforce the laws on the books. That I have no time for at all.

This will continue to be an issue for this country going forward but the most facile, simpleminded, reductive line ever uttered is "We're a Nation of Immigrants." Give that one a rest you bleeding heart liberals, please, this isn't your college diversity course you're in. What applied 200, 150 years ago may be a bit different than today imo. Situations and their solutions change. Our immigration policies need to evolve accordingly. We do need both immigrant labor and TALENT, not grandstanding politicians.

Imagine this scenario, and it's not completely out of the realm of reason or reality: Mexico crumbles and we have to take much of their populace as 'political refugees.' How accepting would you be of a few million people coming here on short notice? What would it do to our ability to provide services to all? A nightmare scenario certainly but it might truly test some peoples imagined 'tolerance.'

[sjinhan]

How is it close to be UnAermican? What right does an Ilegal have? Non thats right. If they want to come to America they need to come through the proper channels to enter the US. Case Closed. This worse then the guy who got sued by ilegal aliens

first we do not know the whole context of the speech so we do not know for 100% know what she meant by what policy that is unamerican...

I am an immigrant in this country and lived here for over 15 years. I became a US citizen 9 years ago.

Since I work in the oil and gas industry in Texas, I tend to travel around quite a bit within the state. Some parts of Texas, I have been pulled over and just asked "randomly" if I am a US citizen then I am asked to provide government documentation or background story about how I am so. Is that American thing to do? An American traveling within the USA not violating any laws but can be just searched or questioned to provide evidence of citizenship. Sure I can just not comply with their requests because I think it is BS but then they can just hold me in detention for 24 hrs without charging me with anything... what I have to deal with 4-6 times a year is pretty UNAMERICAN from my POV...

[LaxBuddy21]

first we do not know the whole context of the speech so we do not know for 100% know what she meant by what policy that is unamerican...

I am an immigrant in this country and lived here for over 15 years. I became a US citizen 9 years ago.

Since I work in the oil and gas industry in Texas, I tend to travel around quite a bit within the state. Some parts of Texas, I have been pulled over and just asked "randomly" if I am a US citizen then I am asked to provide government documentation or background story about how I am so. Is that American thing to do? An American traveling within the USA not violating any laws but can be just searched or questioned to provide evidence of citizenship. Sure I can just not comply with their requests because I think it is BS but then they can just hold me in detention for 24 hrs without charging me with anything... what I have to deal with 4-6 times a year is pretty UNAMERICAN from my POV...

How else do you expect them to find out who is illegal and who is not? I mean honestly, if the employers are covering up for the illegals, what other avenue does law enforcement have? I am sorry that you have to deal with that but I would much rather you have to deal with that 4-6 times a year than have them ignore the problem completely. If I were in your position, I would feel the same way. My mother-in-law is an immigrant from Cuba who came here legally and went through all the proper channels. It was a lot of work but she did it and she really does not like when people come here illegally and dont learn the language or do anything to adapt to America. I think we should make it easier to come here definitely but that does not mean the laws that are in place now should not be enforced.

Pelosi is an idiot. So her message is if you bring your family with you when you come here illegally, it is unamerican for us to deport you so come on over! No, these people need to be deported. The people that employ them and those that give them housing should be fined. We need to make it so that there are no places to hide for people that come here illegally and at the same time make the channels to get here legally easier. If people come legally and work for appropriate wages and pay their taxes, I am happy to have anyone in the world that wants to come to this country. It just hurts everyone else when someone does not do things properly!

[ntotoro]

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi recently told a group of both legal and illegal immigrants and their families that enforcement of existing immigration laws, as currently practiced, is "un-American."

Maybe it's just the sadist in me, but true irony would have been that group getting raided and the illegals weeded out immediately following her speech.

[deejaydana]

Maybe it's just the sadist in me, but true irony would have been that group getting raided and the illegals weeded out immediately following her speech.

That was a funny visual I just conjured from that post of yours. Pelosi, with her mouth hanging open, the room breaks into chaos.

[sjinhan]

How else do you expect them to find out who is illegal and who is not? I mean honestly, if the employers are covering up for the illegals, what other avenue does law enforcement have? I am sorry that you have to deal with that but I would much rather you have to deal with that 4-6 times a year than have them ignore the problem completely. If I were in your position, I would feel the same way. My mother-in-law is an immigrant from Cuba who came here legally and went through all the proper channels. It was a lot of work but she did it and she really does not like when people come here illegally and dont learn the language or do anything to adapt to America. I think we should make it easier to come here definitely but that does not mean the laws that are in place now should not be enforced.

Pelosi is an idiot. So her message is if you bring your family with you when you come here illegally, it is unamerican for us to deport you so come on over! No, these people need to be deported. The people that employ them and those that give them housing should be fined. We need to make it so that there are no places to hide for people that come here illegally and at the same time make the channels to get here legally easier. If people come legally and work for appropriate wages and pay their taxes, I am happy to have anyone in the world that wants to come to this country. It just hurts everyone else when someone does not do things properly!

the question is not whether if deportation of illegals is unamerican or not because i think there is no question there. if you are an illegal and you are captured then there needs to consequences...

the problem is the method. for example, i think we can all agree that shoplifters needs to be stopped at all costs right? they are hurting the legal consumers because the losses on the vendors eventually get passed down to the legal consumers. So in order to stop the shoplifters, should we allow any store security personell to stop you and search you from just a questioning you to detaining you? Especially if the security targets a certain profile in posture, attrire, race, etc.

[NavyDave]

Of course obeying the law is unAmerican, from a Liberal/Socialist POV when their agenda could be derailed.

If she is going to mouth off like that, how about being more "Patriotic" and lifting the restriction on the amount of self sufficient (Middle Class and above) immigrants coming into the US that can be taxed but of course there a risk that they wont need handouts like the others and she'd perceive that they would not joining Team Donkey

[GibbsFactor]

How do I put people on Ignore? Option seems to have gone away.

[sjinhan]

Of course obeying the law is unAmerican, from a Liberal/Socialist POV when their agenda could be derailed.

If she is going to mouth off like that, how about being more "Patriotic" and lifting the restriction on the amount of self sufficient (Middle Class and above) immigrants coming into the US that can be taxed but of course there a risk that they wont need handouts like the others and she'd perceive that they would not joining Team Donkey

yup that is what we need... I think Microsoft lobbied for something like this few years back because they wanted to bring in more higher skilled workers to the US and of course they shot it down...

so what did Microsoft do instead... they shut down the office where they wanted to bring in worker in the US and just opened one in India. So because some people were worried about bringing in some competition in their profession through immigration.. bunch more people who were employed in the US lost their jobs... How crazy is that!?

[Big Blue Joe]

I don't know if changing immigration rules to make it easier to come here legally would do much to stem illegal immigration. The way I see it is that there are numerous people in the Ukraine, Pakistan, Sudan, etc. that would all willingly do the same jobs legally that usually go to illegal immigrants from Latin America. Even if the path to residency is made easier, there are still going to need to be limits. While at the same time, there will still be a huge population of people who live close to the American border who are willing to jump a fence or take a boat to get here and undercut legal immigrant employees by accepting much lower(i.e. illegal) wages.

[Big Blue Joe]

If she is going to mouth off like that, how about being more "Patriotic" and lifting the restriction on the amount of self sufficient (Middle Class and above) immigrants coming into the US that can be taxed but of course there a risk that they wont need handouts like the others and she'd perceive that they would not joining Team Donkey

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea. My cousin came here on a student visa and got a, I believe, Chemical Engineering degree from UC- Berkeley. If he hadn't gotten extremely lucky and won a green card lottery, he would have been sent back to Uganda.

[ljs]

The question is, why does the policy aim to punish the people looking for work, rather then the people at the top who are looking to employ the illegal aliens in the first place?

you are right on. Example in my old town that had a very high number of agriculture jobs, and attracts thousands of illegals. In 2003 or so they "raided" a bunch of apple warehouses after figuring out the social security cards/numbers were fake. So they forced the company to fire close to 800 illegals....then did absolutely NOTHING! No punishment for the companies(other than losing workers they could replace), Hel, they didn't even send the illegals back to Mexico. They just left them there, wtih no job, no way to support their familes.

Look, I'm all for someone trying to make a better life. I'm here because my great great grandparents immigrated. BUT I am for kicking their sorry asses out of this country if they commit a crime. (Esp a felony). AND I am for a revamping of the system on how we determine who gets to come here legally. We must open up avenues to make it easier to be in the US with a work permit. Many families I worked with said the reason they came illegally, is that the wait for legal entry took years, and tons of money. I don't have the answer on how we do it, I just think we need to do it.

What I get pissed about are places like SF, who allow criminal illegals to still be here.

That said, It's a scary though that Pelosi is 2nd in line to be President...and the democrats made fun of Palin:doh:

[ljs]

I agree with the speaker. Our immigration policy is Un-American and utterly hypocritical as is the prevailing nativist sentiment in this thread. Whether or not that sentiment is based on veiled racism can be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

The immigration system is broken. The immigration laws are unenforcable, outdated, and insufficient to meet our needs. They don't protect you, they don't keep out the thugs, they don't offer legal business solutions, but we go after innocent people who are simply trying to feed their families-something every damn one of you would do in their shoes.

Updating immigration laws would make a lot of sense (like Ronald Reagan did) and to his credit George W. Bush tried to, but he was unsuccessful purely based on irrational politics, not practicality.

Did you even hear her speach>? That is not what she was saying. I'll agree that our immigration policy needs a TON of reform...but her negative, to that group, about our men and women who serve this fine nation....come on MD, even you being liberal must see the problem in that? It would be like one of our "leaders" going to the Taliban and saying how sorry we are that our military is so mean to them.:doh:

[ljs]

While I understand why they come, and the fact that they may not know or care of the illegality of their actions in coming here, I cannot in good faith, abandon our sovereignty, our system of laws, or my sense of fairness.

Illegal immigration needs to be curtailed. Those who assist them in coming, and those who provide the incentive to come (jobs) need to be aggressively pursued. Illegal immigrants need to be identified and if they have a family, that family can be returned to the illegal's point of origin.

I am okay with increasing legal immigration to handle the need for low wage labor. I am not okay with retaining people who came here illegally as the preferred personnel to fill those jobs. I don't want to jail them. I don't want to fine them. I want to send them to the back of the line.That appeals to my sense of fairness. It is certainly not fair that people who can walk across a border take jobs and immigration opportunities away from immigrants from other countries waiting to get into this country.

1. Secure the border.

2. Clamp down on the employers and illegal immigrant support systems.

3. Establish worker needs levels. If legal immigration cannot meet those needs, then establish a well regulated and maintained guest worker program.

4. Amend the entire "anchor baby" scenario, requiring both parents to prove that at the time of the birth, they were here legally. If no, the child is not a US Citizen.

5. Even if some family members are US citizens or here legally, if a parent of the family unit is not, the family can be kept together at the country of origin of the illegal immigrant, when they are returned there as a family.

I want people to work, I know immigrant labor forms an excellent labor source for both American business and for immigrant families. I do not want my tax dollars to support illegal immigrants, or those who refuse to merge in the melting pot (linguistically or culturally). I do not want other countries to use immigration to the US as a vehicle to move their violent, insane, or seriously ill people out of their internal systems.

Nancy is wrong. Identifying and apprehending criminal activity is very American.

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

When are you running for office???

[GoSkins561]

She needs to be removed from her position, she is such a freaking fool, how did she even get where she is?

[Gibbsisgod2006]

first we do not know the whole context of the speech so we do not know for 100% know what she meant by what policy that is unamerican...

I am an immigrant in this country and lived here for over 15 years. I became a US citizen 9 years ago.

Since I work in the oil and gas industry in Texas, I tend to travel around quite a bit within the state. Some parts of Texas, I have been pulled over and just asked "randomly" if I am a US citizen then I am asked to provide government documentation or background story about how I am so. Is that American thing to do? An American traveling within the USA not violating any laws but can be just searched or questioned to provide evidence of citizenship. Sure I can just not comply with their requests because I think it is BS but then they can just hold me in detention for 24 hrs without charging me with anything... what I have to deal with 4-6 times a year is pretty UNAMERICAN from my POV...

Ok well my father was an illegal immigrant and was deported becuase he committed a crime. He committed a crime along with many others who sneak into the country. I am sorry for your inconvenience but if people learned not to come to this country illegally then we would not be having this argument no would we no. Pelosi Doesn't need to talk about our Immigration laws being Un American when she herself is doing nothing to change what is going on.

[LaxBuddy21]

the question is not whether if deportation of illegals is unamerican or not because i think there is no question there. if you are an illegal and you are captured then there needs to consequences...

the problem is the method. for example, i think we can all agree that shoplifters needs to be stopped at all costs right? they are hurting the legal consumers because the losses on the vendors eventually get passed down to the legal consumers. So in order to stop the shoplifters, should we allow any store security personell to stop you and search you from just a questioning you to detaining you? Especially if the security targets a certain profile in posture, attrire, race, etc.

I definitely understand what you are saying. The problem is that there are other ways to catch shoplifters. You can get video surveillance of someone committing a crime like that. You cant watch someone on video and determine if they are illegal. I mean honestly, stores like walmart already do stop and question almost everyone when they leave the store because they want to see a receipt for everything you have in your bag. Is that wrong? I dont think it is and I dont mind showing a receipt for everything I have to prove I paid for it.

What if you can narrow down potential shop lifters based on some visual cue? Stores already keep a closer eye on people with baggy clothes because it is more likely that a person who steals will be wearing baggy clothes to hide what they have stolen. It is also more likely that a person here illegally will be from hispanic decent. Are all hispanics illegals? Of course not!!! Are all people wearing baggy clothes going to steal from a store? No but they are the most likely candidates.

I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn but I do know that we have a bad habit of not doing anything in this country because we are afraid of offending some people. We think that if one person is searched and found not to have done anything wrong then we should not search anyone. And we let those people sue and win which justifies even further people feeling like its wrong. I dont think it is.