Six Flags Bankruptcy any Threat to Redskins?

[RFKFedEx]

I would love to hear from someone who knows this industry to understand why Snyder bought six flags in the first place.

I can guarantee you it wasnt why one would think.

Not from the industry, but I'll theorize on what some of his motivation may have been:

Six Flags in Largo occupies a large chunk of real estate just off of the Capitol Beltway here in the DC area.

Six Flags Magic Mountain provides a nice chunk of land near Los Angeles, just off of I-5.

Both sites could be ideal for NFL stadiums one day.

If Six Flags goes under, the site in LA could still emerge to compete w/the current stadium proposal east of LA.

In 10 years, Danny can launch a stadium war between DC and PG County in hopes of landing public financing for a new stadium here.

[PorkSkins]

It means no more offseason for athletes that make enough money to work year round. Six flags will cut their staff and next year you'll be putting your kid on a ride operated by one of our practice squad members.

[RedSunday]

Six Flags in Largo occupies a large chunk of real estate just off of the Capitol Beltway here in the DC area.

Six Flags Magic Mountain provides a nice chunk of land near Los Angeles, just off of I-5.

Both sites could be ideal for NFL stadiums one day.

.

LOL,just when ya think things around here can't get any worse,they do ?!?!:doh:

[da#1skinsfan]

Not from the industry, but I'll theorize on what some of his motivation may have been:

Six Flags in Largo occupies a large chunk of real estate just off of the Capitol Beltway here in the DC area.

Six Flags Magic Mountain provides a nice chunk of land near Los Angeles, just off of I-5.

Both sites could be ideal for NFL stadiums one day.

If Six Flags goes under, the site in LA could still emerge to compete w/the current stadium proposal east of LA.

In 10 years, Danny can launch a stadium war between DC and PG County in hopes of landing public financing for a new stadium here.

bingoooooo. this is what I was looking for vs a danny-hater themed "hes an idiot and bought a sinking company"

No one thought six flags was viable, so that couldnt be it. he also did nothing to improve or turn it around which tells you there was other motivation.

I wonder how much he paid out of pocket when all is said and done factoring in VC funds and shareholder interest. I bet youre dead on and dude makes a mint...

[Darth Tater]

bingoooooo. this is what I was looking for vs a danny-hater themed "hes an idiot and bought a sinking company"

No one thought six flags was viable, so that couldnt be it. he also did nothing to improve or turn it around which tells you there was other motivation.

I wonder how much he paid out of pocket when all is said and done factoring in VC funds and shareholder interest. I bet youre dead on and dude makes a mint...

6 Flags was at best a way to generate a positive cash flow until a more valuable use for the land became available. One of the greatest detriments to acquiring and keeping true real estate investments is lack of cash flow from those investments while waiting for more valuable options (like selling the land or using it as leverage in certain negotiations) to become available. I've seen people HAVE to sell or choose some lesser option on real estate investments because those investments did not produce a positive cash flow

[bnacpa]

I think Danny's motives may be a bit different. If you look at major media companies like Disney, NBC/Universal, Paramout, etc they all try to provide theme park experiences to combine with their media and content related businesses.

Snyder may have been thinking of Tom Cruise, production company, further outlets for Johnny Rockets (already present on Royal Caribbean cruise ships) and other outlets. He has purchased Dick Clark productions which has agreements in place for New Years and the American Music Awards on ABC (Disney). I think there was a much longer term plan for these locations then a potential land grab.

A few other thoughts ...

1.) Land must be entitled for specific use and unless you sit on the county planning committees or other areas, it is unlikely that he can just switch an amusement park to a stadium because he wants to. The highest and best use of Magic Mountain in Los Angeles (at least an hour commute North from down town during rush hour) may be residential to coincide with the Valencia, CA community. Even if that was his plan during the boom times, he would have to get the land rezoned and entitled for different use.

2.) If he files for bankruptcy protection that does not mean he is bankrupt. It means he gets certain protections such as not paying interest on debt. That will give him a bit of time to restructure. It is a public version of announcing to creditors and potential investors that this is shaky and unless changes come, you may end up with nothing for your loan/investment. Often companies do not survive chapter 11 because the creditors can be too greedy or there simply isn't enough cash coming in.

3.) Disney announced in its Q1 investor call that revenue in their parks business was down 24%. If Disney is feeling the impacts from the economy, then Six Flaggs is definitely not doing well. They don't have the same draw as Disney, Universal Studios or Sea World. One of the reasons is that there are no synergies between the locations. For example, Magic Mountain is mostly and iron giant (roller coasters) where their locations in Atlanta and Texas are more oriented towards water parks. They have not thought strategically in terms of incurring the engineering costs of a design and deploying the new attraction in multiple locations. Conversely, Disney has Toy Story Mania, Soarin, most Magic Kingdom attractions (Pirates, jungle cruise, space moutain, etc.) in multiple locations. Sea World also has similar shows in Orlando and San Diego.

4.) Finally, someone asked how Busch Gardens was doing ... InBev purchased Anheiser Busch last year and has stated publicly that they wish to sell the Parks business and get back to the core business of beverages. Problem is that many in the industry are interested in Sea World but not Busch Gardens. AB was privately held, so no financial data was publicly available on the theme parks segment, but may be later when InBev announces earnings.

[HighOnHendrix]

Both sites could be ideal for NFL stadiums one day.

If Six Flags goes under, the site in LA could still emerge to compete w/the current stadium proposal east of LA.

In 10 years, Danny can launch a stadium war between DC and PG County in hopes of landing public financing for a new stadium here.

Seems a little far-fetched to me.

[The Sisko]

Not from the industry, but I'll theorize on what some of his motivation may have been:

Six Flags in Largo occupies a large chunk of real estate just off of the Capitol Beltway here in the DC area.

Six Flags Magic Mountain provides a nice chunk of land near Los Angeles, just off of I-5.

Both sites could be ideal for NFL stadiums one day.

If Six Flags goes under, the site in LA could still emerge to compete w/the current stadium proposal east of LA.

In 10 years, Danny can launch a stadium war between DC and PG County in hopes of landing public financing for a new stadium here.

Not likely but if it were to go down that way, the fans would be the real winners. Snyder would take the team to languish in L.A. where they seem to not really want football anyway. DC would keep the team name and history and get to start over with an expansion team or one transferred in from a small market city. In three or four years DC's expansion team would be a contender while Snyder continues his policy of "what we do works" in L.A.

[RFKFedEx]

Snyder would take the team to languish in L.A. where they seem to not really want football anyway.

I don't believe there will be a vacancy in LA long enough for Snyder to use them as leverage to get a new stadium in the DC area.

Danny may have visioned that he could one day sell the Magic Mountain site to a stadium builder. However, the stadium proposal for east of LA is now looking far more realistic than anything else back in 2005.

Regardless of new stadium dreams in LA or the DC area, Danny is suffering for his massive real estate investment at the height of the boom. Snyder paid top dollar for Six Flags and he's been bleeding red ink ever since. Never mind the godzilla like opperational costs of a theme park.

Does anybody see any similarities w/ the way our FO works?

[TSO]

If you're ever in northern Ohio, hell Ohio in general, try to go to Cedar Point. If you go to parks for the coasters, it's better than KD, BG, and SF put together.

Cedar Point... ahhh, the memories. :cloud9:

I've got some family in Ohio. Cedar Point is absolutely, by far, without a doubt the best amusement park in the world. That is, if the good rides are your stuff and not humans dressed up in mouse costumes.

Btw, have any of you "oh I hope this means Snyder is gone" proponents thought for one second about the very real possibility that the next owner comes in and does worse? Why is it automatically assumed we'll just turn everything around with a savior at the helm? And no, the argument that there is no way but up doesn't work here because, actually, we aren't the worst franchise in the league, PERIOD. Mediocre can be argued, but not the worse. Someone can come right in after Snyder and take us down to the pits.

[Flycoach]

Very little since they got Six Flags for cheap to begin with. I've read that they make money off the land moreso than the park.

I wonder how Kings Dominion and Busch Garden stocks are doing. Nobody ever mentions them to gain a context on whether or not the situation with Six Flags is unique, or if it's something going on with all major amusement parks.

Excellent point. My guess would be that those other parks are also suffering, what with the economy being the way it is.

[PigSkins]

Snyder should ask for a Fed Bailout. Six Flags is too big to fail.

[DexterSackMachine]

Six Flags was in-trouble when Pretzel Boy bought it. He should have known better.

The theory is buy low, sell high.

[coolbeans]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123690270788513649.html

I think some of you should read the above article. It will probably be a real eye opener to those of you who actually think Snyder is the sole owner of Six Flags and caqn do whatever he wants with it. If Six Flags files for bankruptsy, Snyder and company will likely have lost everything they put into it and no longer be in control.

[RFKFedEx]

Cedarpoint is awesome..anyone who has a chance to go make sure you hit up the Maverick...

that said.. if you get out to the Los Angeles area any time soon, Six Flags Magic Mountain is absolutely INSANE.

Yep. Magic Mountain is the finest collection of roller coasters I've ever seen, though I'd love to hit Cedar Point in OH.

The one thing that pissed me off about Magic Mt. is that only half of the rides were open the day we went. Every roller coaster opened and closed at one point during the day. They ran in shifts of two hours on and two hours off. I could only conclude that this was to save on labor and energy costs. Screw the patrons who paid $40. Let them stand in hour long lines for each coaster. As much as I love roller coasters, I will not return any time soon.

Reminds me of the restroom and concession lines at FedEx.:hysterical:

[Thinking Skins]

Btw, have any of you "oh I hope this means Snyder is gone" proponents thought for one second about the very real possibility that the next owner comes in and does worse? Why is it automatically assumed we'll just turn everything around with a savior at the helm? And no, the argument that there is no way but up doesn't work here because, actually, we aren't the worst franchise in the league, PERIOD. Mediocre can be argued, but not the worse. Someone can come right in after Snyder and take us down to the pits.

Trust me, I've definately thought of that. And I still think its worth the dream. And if I'm gonna dream, why should I dream of a nightmare? I want to dream of a compitent owner who doesn't treat the team like fantasy football and who's willing to hire a coach, keep him through some tough times, but not be afraid to fire him if he knows that coach isn't any good. And GM, I'd hope that he could find a way to measure the performance of the GM and to say whether that guy is doing his job well or not.

For a while, I have hoped Snyder would grow into such an owner, but my eyes are opening to the fact that he won't. So I have my prayers that he's forced to sell the team and we get somebody in here who's better.

[Monte51Coleman]

[OVCChairman]

Well we know if they go under, Snyder can open up the Redskins FO if people miss seeing rollercoasters

[DaGhost]

redskins and rollercoasters, huh? poor thread... next!

[HailRiggoRanger]

I think Danny's motives may be a bit different. If you look at major media companies like Disney, NBC/Universal, Paramout, etc they all try to provide theme park experiences to combine with their media and content related businesses.

Snyder may have been thinking of Tom Cruise, production company, further outlets for Johnny Rockets (already present on Royal Caribbean cruise ships) and other outlets. He has purchased Dick Clark productions which has agreements in place for New Years and the American Music Awards on ABC (Disney). I think there was a much longer term plan for these locations then a potential land grab.

A few other thoughts ...

Best post so far...great analysis. Though, I did enjoy reading the "Danny's plot to take over LA and DC" posts!

[Thinking Skins]

redskins and rollercoasters, huh? poor thread... next!

haha, good one.

[HighOnHendrix]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123690270788513649.html

I think some of you should read the above article. It will probably be a real eye opener to those of you who actually think Snyder is the sole owner of Six Flags and caqn do whatever he wants with it. If Six Flags files for bankruptsy, Snyder and company will likely have lost everything they put into it and no longer be in control.

"Stockholders would have been better off hiding their money under a mattress" than investing in the company under the prior management, Mr. Snyder wrote in a letter to Six Flag shareholders in October 2005, during the proxy battle. At the time, Six Flags shares were trading at about $7.25. Thursday, they closed at 19 cents on the New York Stock Exchange.

Holy ****! That's unbelievable!

[Taylor 36]

Very little since they got Six Flags for cheap to begin with. I've read that they make money off the land moreso than the park.

I wonder how Kings Dominion and Busch Garden stocks are doing. Nobody ever mentions them to gain a context on whether or not the situation with Six Flags is unique, or if it's something going on with all major amusement parks.

I know that BG is having difficulties as well. One of my friends is in charge of all the musical performances there, and he has been saying that they have been taking a financial hit for a few years now. I can't imagine what this summer will be like for them, seeing as how most people who are getting bailed out don't frequent Theme parks.

[onnie007]

The possible bankruptcy has no impact on the Redskins whatsoever. It doesn't even have much of an impact on Dan Snyder personally for that matter either because he won't have to come out of pocket whatsoever. The only impact will be to his ego.

[coolbeans]

The possible bankruptcy has no impact on the Redskins whatsoever. It doesn't even have much of an impact on Dan Snyder personally for that matter either because he won't have to come out of pocket whatsoever. The only impact will be to his ego.

You may be somewhat right but he did pay between $8-10 a share for 5.4 million shares that will be virtually worthless if they declare bankruptsy. He also convinced Cerrato and some other redskin personnel to spend their own money to buy more shares so he could control more votes during the proxy fight. That won't really affect the redskins but I'd bet there's at least a little tension around the office over all the lost money.