The Sisko Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Eh, the salary cap does that well enough, and I'm never going to complain about an owner who spends too much money. Being an O's fan in the late 80s and early 90s taught me that having an owner who is not willing to spend money is never a good thing.People bag on Snyder all the time, but other than the fact that he's exceedingly rich, he isn't much different than most of us. He's a fan of the team and wants to see them win. Like most fans would be if put in such a position, he has made mistakes. He seems to have learned from some of those mistakes. Whether or not he's learned enough is a question we don't have an answer to yet. The whole 'all he cares about is buzz, not wins' is an old saw that has been proven false over time. Certainly promoting Vinny, hiring Zorn, and mostly being a non-player in FA isn't any way to create buzz. I think we can all agree that in the NFL it's not always how much one spends, but how well it's spent. I don't think you'd get much of an argument (outside of you and Ernie anyway) that Snyder has done a poor job of that. Therefore I think the main premise of the article, i.e. that Snyder limits us is spot on. However, I do think there's an element of Snyder's liking "buzz" for its own sake, not to mention the marketing advantages. Even so, I don't think it's the primary driver. I just think it's one of many things that cause us to consistently wallow in mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Rich Fla Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Stwasm is still ****ed off. I thought he'd be cooled off by now. He swore he was HOT as a match at end of the season. I believe him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Snyder is (and will be for decades to come, so we better get use to it) the owner of the Washingon Redskins. Therefore, he takes a lot of flack for the short comings of the team, deserved or not (I believe is not deserved). What bothers me is when people act as though this was a franchise that was a SB contender every season until Snyder took over and then drove this team into the ground. The facts are that this franchise was woeful from 1993 - 1998, and Snyder bought the team before the '99 season. He didn't run anything into the ground; if anything, he helped excavate it. In the ten seasons he has owned the team, Snyder has shown me a lot of growth. He is NOT the same guy that brought in Bruce Smith, Deion, etc. in 2000. Yet, the media and some of the fans can't let that go. It is amazing how people want to still judge a man on his actions from nine years ago, but forget all about the positives that he has done in just the last two seasons. Snyder is an NFL franchise owner, and as such, it is his business to make money from his team. He is also a huge fan of this team, so winning is very much at the top of his list, not just making money. Besides, he would increase his revenue tremedously by having a winning team. Spending as much as he does PROVES that he wants to win. IF it was all about money, he would not be spending so much to lose. The problem is that he and those he's left in charge, including Gibbs, have not always made the smartest decisions when it has come to knowing on who to spend the money. Snyder is learning though. This offseason and last should be proof of that. HE deserves to take some heat, but nowhere near the amount that has been tossed on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think we can all agree that in the NFL it's not always how much one spends, but how well it's spent. I don't think you'd get much of an argument (outside of you and Ernie anyway) that Snyder has done a poor job of that. Therefore I think the main premise of the article, i.e. that Snyder limits us is spot on. Uh, how does he limit us when he doesn't make the decisions about who we sign? I guess I don't understand how an owner who nowadays lets his football people do their jobs and has no problem opening up his checkbook limits this team. Most of the criticism of Snyder is really things may have been true a few years ago, but isn't true now, as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The whole 'all he cares about is buzz, not wins' is an old saw that has been proven false over time. Certainly promoting Vinny, hiring Zorn, and mostly being a non-player in FA isn't any way to create buzz. Longshot, I agree that the "buzz" thing maybe isn't true right now. But Snyder's previous three head coaching hires were all about buzz. True, Snyder couldn't have anticipated Spurrier flaking out after two season, but firing Marty for the sake of bringing Vinny back and then bringing a 62-year-old Gibbs with a limited shelf life back were no way to build stability. Despite the bad end of last season, giving Zorn some time is what this team needs. Problem is that we may have to start with a new QB in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Uh, how does he limit us when he doesn't make the decisions about who we sign? I guess I don't understand how an owner who nowadays lets his football people do their jobs and has no problem opening up his checkbook limits this team.Most of the criticism of Snyder is really things may have been true a few years ago, but isn't true now, as far as I can tell. I made you a new sig. :silly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 What bothers me is when people act as though this was a franchise that was a SB contender every season until Snyder took over and then drove this team into the ground. The facts are that this franchise was woeful from 1993 - 1998, and Snyder bought the team before the '99 season. He didn't run anything into the ground; if anything, he helped excavate it. In the ten seasons he has owned the team, Snyder has shown me a lot of growth. He is NOT the same guy that brought in Bruce Smith, Deion, etc. in 2000. Yet, the media and some of the fans can't let that go. It is amazing how people want to still judge a man on his actions from nine years ago, but forget all about the positives that he has done in just the last two seasons. I don't think Snyder has really helped excavate anything. The team went through a few rebuilding years after Gibbs left but the big criticism against Norv was he couldn't get us past that hump of average/mediocre. Under Snyder's ownership, we still haven't. And I agree that Snyder probably is learning and is probably still taking lumps from some of his actions early on in his ownership. But answer me this: Does the guy ever do anything to help his public image? Someone brought up the Caps earlier in this thread, and the contrast between the public image of Snyder and Leonsis can't be any starker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I don't think Snyder has really helped excavate anything. The team went through a few rebuilding years after Gibbs left but the big criticism against Norv was he couldn't get us past that hump of average/mediocre. Under Snyder's ownership, we still haven't.And I agree that Snyder probably is learning and is probably still taking lumps from some of his actions early on in his ownership. But answer me this: Does the guy ever do anything to help his public image? Someone brought up the Caps earlier in this thread, and the contrast between the public image of Snyder and Leonsis can't be any starker. If Snyder isn't concerned about his public image (he has the checkbook to hire any firm he wanted, if he wanted, to represent him and turn his image around), then no one on this board should be. If he wants to continue to take lumps in the media, that's fine. I just wish the fans, the people who actually follow this team, would be wise enough to look past the obvious media bias. This isn't about Snyder's public image, it is about the Washington Redskins. And, as long as he keeps showing improvement in the way he handles his ownership, I can judge for myself that he isn't the ass that the media and some fans try to make him about to be. Besides, when this team gets back to consistantly winning, there will be no need for anyone to question his public image.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 And, as long as he keeps showing improvement in the way he handles his ownership, I can judge for myself that he isn't the ass that the media and some fans try to make him about to be. And you know this how? My mom went out to a restaurant in Philly the night the Skins lost in Tampa in the playoffs in early 2000 and the waiter told her that Snyder had been a total ass when Jeff Lurie had brought him to the place earlier that season. No media bias there. In a recent thread someone mentioned how Ted Leonsis sometimes walks the concourse at Verizon Center and acknowledges the fans. A few seasons ago I'm taking the escalator up to the club level on the side of the stadium that passes the owner's level and there's Snyder walking along the concourse. People on the escalator are calling out "Hey Dan", "Hey Mr. Snyder" and the guy continues walking along, head down, no acknowledgement. That's my own two eyes.......no media bias there. Yes, I know that many folks who get to the positions of power that Snyder has attained have some SOB in them. Also, I realize that if the Skins had turned into a consistent winner, not many people would care about Snyder's behavior. However, the fact is that up to this point the Redskins haven't, and at the same time, Snyder does little to nothing to improve his image. I guess we'll see what the future holds......I agree that, maybe, he is beginning to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I always hate when people make this comparison. It's apples to oranges.First and foremost, even if the comparison were a good one, the Redskins as a franchise have been more successfull the last 5 years than the Capitals. Second, the Capitals have won nothing. Third, the Capitals had to get lights out goaltending and fire a coach to go from absolute doormats in the NHL to respectable last year. Fourth, the Capitals got a gift that few teams get buy being so lousy that they got the first pick in the draft and so fortunate that it was in a year that there was hands down NO argument as to who to pick....Ovechkin. You remove Ovechkin from that team and what do you have. The Caps are looking good, but lets not crown them as a model franchise before they do anything. Hockey is not Football. Hockey also has a farm system which Football doesn't. what? teams with winning records have superior talent?....say it aint so!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If Snyder isn't concerned about his public image (he has the checkbook to hire any firm he wanted, if he wanted, to represent him and turn his image around), then no one on this board should be. If he wants to continue to take lumps in the media, that's fine. I just wish the fans, the people who actually follow this team, would be wise enough to look past the obvious media bias.This isn't about Snyder's public image, it is about the Washington Redskins. And, as long as he keeps showing improvement in the way he handles his ownership, I can judge for myself that he isn't the ass that the media and some fans try to make him about to be. Besides, when this team gets back to consistantly winning, there will be no need for anyone to question his public image.:2cents: yahoo!! the 30 year learning plan!!!! nothing but up baby!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The hate for Snyder is way overblown. and so is the puerile labeling of everyone with a complaint as a hater. I grow so weary of this mindless, easy way out tripe. I don't hate DS - or as you paternalisticly put it "Dan"....anymore, I suspect, than you "LOVE" him. See how idiotic that assertion truly is? But as a businessman running a business - the Washington Redskins - he has succeeded on one front...making money....but been a complete failure in another...winning. no matter how many times you click your heels, line up another off-season of "we'll see if they turn it around this time" pushing accountability off into the future excuses, or solemnly intone how unbaised and loving you are of the Dan.....there remains one INCONTROVERTIBLE FACT: he hasn't delivered the goods.....:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I could never cheer for another team. I've tried and it just doesn't feel right at all. I have developed hatred for most of them for some particular reason. I can only cheer for the skins. I"m sure its the same for 99% of the ppl here. That said, I sometimes wonder when Dan Snyder will actually get it right. Or if he even wants to anymore. It's been almost, what, 10 years and the team is no further along than it was when he first took over as owner. The only consistent is change. Even when he tries to remain static his men make the wrong moves. The team is older and the window has closed on them making the playoffs with the past 2 playoff caliber teams. It's time to get real competent football people to come in and right the ship. Until that happens I think these articles will keep on being commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 and so is the puerile labeling of everyone with a complaint as a hater. I grow so weary of this mindless, easy way out tripe.I don't hate DS - or as you paternalisticly put it "Dan"....anymore, I suspect, than you "LOVE" him. See how idiotic that assertion truly is? But as a businessman running a business - the Washington Redskins - he has succeeded on one front...making money....but been a complete failure in another...winning. no matter how many times you click your heels, line up another off-season of "we'll see if they turn it around this time" pushing accountability off into the future excuses, or solemnly intone how unbaised and loving you are of the Dan.....there remains one INCONTROVERTIBLE FACT: he hasn't delivered the goods.....:doh: Ditto that. I have been saying this for years now. When Snyder puts together an organization with a personality and an M.O. that consistently produces a competetive on-field product, I'll be happy to say he's figured it out. Interestingly, I wonder how many of the "give Dan time, he's learned from his mistakes" crowd is also on the "dump JC" bandwagon also. Things that make you go hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Snyder's approach is "create a buzz, and they will come." Here's the problem—his act is wearing thin. Pretty soon, the Redskins will stop making money, and they still won't win. When that happens, let's all hope Danny Boy sells to someone who loves the 'Skins above all else. Then—and only then—they have a chance to get back to glory.Do you honestly believe that this franchise will stop making money? And even if that did happen; do you really think that it would be soon? My three year old might be in the league before that happens IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Uh, how does he limit us when he doesn't make the decisions about who we sign? I guess I don't understand how an owner who nowadays lets his football people do their jobs and has no problem opening up his checkbook limits this team.Most of the criticism of Snyder is really things may have been true a few years ago, but isn't true now, as far as I can tell. Okaaay. Please humor me though and answer the following questions. Who hired Marty, then decided he couldn't handle Marty's running the show? Who rehired Vinny? Who hired Spurrier? Who hired Gibbs? Who hired Zorn? Here's a hint :secret: his initials are D.S. There are those of you that defend Danny and Vinny to the hilt but what's undeniable is that these decisions were made by someone. If it wasn't Snyder and/or Vinny making these moves, who was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metskins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The only thing I hate more than Dan Snyder are the people that still support him because "he just wants to win, just look at how much he spends". It's all about this guy's ego, it's what comes first and foremost. Not the team, not the fans, his ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Okaaay. Please humor me though and answer the following questions. Who hired Marty, then decided he couldn't handle Marty's running the show? Who rehired Vinny? Who hired Spurrier? Who hired Gibbs? Who hired Zorn? Yusuf, I think the key word in Longshot's post was nowadays. Even if the hiring process that led to Zorn was a goat rope, at least it wasn't a big name, and there was the Andy Reid precedence of a coordinator ultimately having success. And we did have a full draft last year.....granted, only one of the players had an impact this season, but we hope more pan out next season. The one consistent theme under Snyder's ownership has been inconsistency. The firing of Marty, hiring of the flaky Spurrier, and the hiring of a too-old-to-stay-around-to-really-make-an-impact Gibbs I think has been a big reason behind us floundering around. But now unless the roof really falls in, we need to stick with something. Unfortunately, I'm thinking that 2009 is going to be another season where the offense is inconsistent for various reasons, and Jason Campbell, rightly or wrongly, will be let go and we'll put up with another season of having to groom a new trigger man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hahahaha. Wait a minute.....There went 5 minutes of my life I will never get back. Never mind. I mean I am so enlightened now!!! I mean I relate to that so much. Why have I been so blind for so long! Winning could never increase profits.........I am such a fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 and so is the puerile labeling of everyone with a complaint as a hater. I grow so weary of this mindless, easy way out tripe. You don't even know how I feel about Snyder. :laugh: Oh, and I don't recall calling anyone a hater. I said the word hate. I don't lump them as one in the same. A hater is someone that doesn't like someone for the hell of it. Hating someone is a bit different. Easy there, fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Even if everything bad about Dan Snyder is true, he owns the Redskins and isn't going to sell the team anytime in the foreseeable future - if ever. So, no matter what we fans feel about him, we need to get over it. ****in and moaning ain't gonna change nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Even if everything bad about Dan Snyder is true, he owns the Redskins and isn't going to sell the team anytime in the foreseeable future - if ever. So, no matter what we fans feel about him, we need to get over it. ****in and moaning ain't gonna change nothing. "Assume the position!......Thank you, sir, may I have another?" you nailed that one....niedermayer!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You don't even know how I feel about Snyder. :laugh:Oh, and I don't recall calling anyone a hater. I said the word hate. I don't lump them as one in the same. A hater is someone that doesn't like someone for the hell of it. Hating someone is a bit different. Easy there, fella. not so easy big guy. you employed the word and it was done very intentionally for its emotional impact. it is designed, and always has been, to appeal to one group of people and detract from another - you don't have to point a finger at any one person. I realize you are a quality poster and valued thinker on this board. but you are not immune from employing these sorts of verbal stabs......that is what you did in this instance. I agree the "I hate Danny" stuff is tiresome. but so is the constant excuse making along the lines of "he's learning". there have been one too many excuse making flows under the off-season bridge to give that idea real force any more. it's not believeable any longer and sounds like a record that is badly scratched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Okaaay. Please humor me though and answer the following questions. Who hired Marty, then decided he couldn't handle Marty's running the show? Who rehired Vinny? Who hired Spurrier? Who hired Gibbs? Who hired Zorn?Here's a hint :secret: his initials are D.S. There are those of you that defend Danny and Vinny to the hilt but what's undeniable is that these decisions were made by someone. If it wasn't Snyder and/or Vinny making these moves, who was? I was opposed to the hirings of Marty and Gibbs. I supported Snyder's firing of Marty and the hiring of Spurrier, but I was wrong on Spurrier. I support his hiring of Jim Zorn. Where did you stand on Marty, Spurrier and Gibbs? Have you already decided that JZ was a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I supported his firing of Marty.. OF, just curious.......why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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