KDawg Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 not so easy big guy. you employed the word and it was done very intentionally for its emotional impact. it is designed, and always has been, to appeal to one group of people and detract from another - you don't have to point a finger at any one person. I realize you are a quality poster and valued thinker on this board. but you are not immune from employing these sorts of verbal stabs......that is what you did in this instance.I agree the "I hate Danny" stuff is tiresome. but so is the constant excuse making along the lines of "he's learning". there have been one too many excuse making flows under the off-season bridge to give that idea real force any more. it's not believeable any longer and sounds like a record that is badly scratched. I've made no excuses for Danny whatsoever. He's made a ton of mistakes. But the onus isn't completely on him. It's just not. Furthermore, I didn't do anything to stab at anyone with that post you originally quoted. Have I stabbed at people in the past here? Absolutely. I type what I feel, and I feel that there are entirely too many people here who say they hate Danny because they really don't know what the hell they're talking about and need a scapegoat. I'm not saying you or anyone in specific is in that camp, in fact, the majority of the quality/"regular" posters here definitely aren't. There are very legit reasons to hate the guy. Unfortunately, when you ask the average poster why they hate him, they spew some unintelligent drivel that really clues you in as to how much they really know about the team. The same can be said for people who blindly defend the guy as well. I've never been in either camp on this issue, to be honest. He's screwed up and made some horrible mistakes. The players/coaches have screwed up and made some terrible mistakes. The onus is on the entire organization. Remember, we were bad for years before Dan came along. Is that a good reason to continue wallowing in mediocrity? No. Absolutely not. But it's truthful. It's not all on Dan, no matter how you slice it. But a portion of it absolutely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 OF, just curious [about my positions on Marty].......why? I didn't want Marty hired and I favored his firing for the same reason. I didn't like his brand of football. Very conservative offense, stout defense -- a good way to regularly beat the weak sisters in the regular season and lose to good, better balanced teams in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 So, no matter what we fans feel about him, we need to get over it. ****in and moaning ain't gonna change nothing. Well, I canceled my season tickets 2 years ago, and 2008 was the first time in 20 years that I didn't go to a single game. That's all I can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I've made no excuses for Danny whatsoever. He's made a ton of mistakes. But the onus isn't completely on him. It's just not. You're definitely more knowledgable in football matters than me, but on this you're mistaken. Danny's owned the team long enough to get everybody he wanted onboard and working for a few years now. It's all on Danny, whether he accepts responsibility or not. He's the CEO, boss, etc. and had plenty of time to make this franchise his. Any onus and plaudits the past few years ultimately DO fall on his shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, I canceled my season tickets 2 years ago, and 2008 was the first time in 20 years that I didn't go to a single game. That's all I can do... That's how you do it. Money talks, BS walks. Now, to be honest, if I had season tickets, I don't know whether I'd be able to cancel them to show my displeasure with Dan Snyder. But I respect you for putting your money where your mouth is, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You're definitely more knowledgable in football matters than me, but on this you're mistaken. Danny's owned the team long enough to get everybody he wanted onboard and working for a few years now. It's all on Danny, whether he accepts responsibility or not. He's the CEO, boss, etc. and had plenty of time to make this franchise his. Any onus and plaudits the past few years ultimately DO fall on his shoulders. We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see this discussion going nowhere. He's made mistakes, but alot of the things he's done were things that the media and the people on this very forum were swooning over when he did them. At least earlier in his tenure. Those moves didn't pan out like we had hoped. There's been alot of bad decisions, again, I'm aboard on that. He's also had some rotten luck with alot of things going wrong. And like I've said, blame should be put on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see this discussion going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 KDAWG- You should talk to people in the DC area that worked for Synder Communications Inc. and people who know him outside of the Skins world. He often fired managers. He made snap decisions that did not benefit anyone. He has to bear final responsibility as an owner for the Skins record-all NFL owners know this when they buy a football franchise. He has been a poor CEO of the Redskins. You say that you have not been in either camp and that you are more knowledge than the average poster but to not take either one side of the argument or the other side of the Snyder argument is to avoid the issue completely. The Skins cannot improve without addressing the Snyder/Cerrato decision-making "brain trust" connection. Now if Snyder agreed to go run his other companies and turn over the Redskins to a professional General Manager then you could say that he made the first positive step in trying to make the Skins a more successful football franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 "Those that know how to succeed know how to not make the same mistake over and over again, Dan Snyder said. That's how you succeed, and that's something I've done all my life." Feb. 25, 2001 Omg, his ego is preventing him from doing so with the Redskins, so he will keep on getting burned and not learning. Reminds me when he said he wants to win the Sb not only this year but every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was opposed to the hirings of Marty and Gibbs. I supported Snyder's firing of Marty and the hiring of Spurrier, but I was wrong on Spurrier. I support his hiring of Jim Zorn.Where did you stand on Marty, Spurrier and Gibbs? Have you already decided that JZ was a mistake? I was in favor of hiring Marty and Gibbs, neutral to positive on Zorn and hated SOS hire but had to get on board since he was our coach. In retrospect even though they underperformed our expectations, Gibbs and Marty are so far, Snyder's two best hires. However my opinion matters little here. The original premise was that Snyder retards our progress, not me. However if Danny wants to give me an inflated contract to run the team I'm certain I wouldn't do any worse than he has. Sadly, that reflects poorly on him not me since that is his only job and I'm merely a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Dan Snyder is being punished for the 2000 spending spree on overpriced FAs to this day. And also firing Marty after 1 8-8 season. After that, he calmed down a bit, but had a relapse with the Adam A., Brandon Lloyd catastrophe. Though, honestly, and I'll freely admit that I'm a HUGE Gibbs fan, I put those moves on Gibbs. Adam A. and B. Lloyd were not really flashy, so much as stupid. The fact is that the Redskins over the past 2 off seasons have done really nothing truly splashy, save for signing Jason Taylor, and that wasn't part of some grand plan, it happened when Vinny freaked out when Daniels went down on the first snap of training camp. And they haven't done anything splashy this off season yet. Proof of this is that they hired Jim Zorn as HC. Who nobody this side of the Mississippi had ever heard of before. I think there is little question at the moment that Vinny is running the show. Take that as good/bad/indifferent. He's the man in charge. He chose the draft picks, the FAs, the trades, everything. There are some good moves, there have been some bad moves. Ultimately, this is the "show me" year for Vinny. If the team collapses, which I suspect, (though would be THRILLED if it didn't happen) then the whole thing is going to get thrown out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You say that you have not been in either camp and that you are more knowledge than the average poster but to not take either one side of the argument or the other side of the Snyder argument is to avoid the issue completely.. I never said I was more knowledgable than anyone, others said I may be. I didn't. And not taking a side means I think we could be worse, we could be better. That's it. It's not avoiding anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I was in favor of hiring Marty and Gibbs, neutral to positive on Zorn and hated SOS hire but had to get on board since he was our coach. In retrospect even though they underperformed our expectations, Gibbs and Marty are so far, Snyder's two best hires.However my opinion matters little here. The original premise was that Snyder retards our progress, not me. However if Danny wants to give me an inflated contract to run the team I'm certain I wouldn't do any worse than he has. Sadly, that reflects poorly on him not me since that is his only job and I'm merely a fan. Yes, the original premise was that Snyder retards our progress and your post seemed to support that notion by implying that Dan had made a series of bad decisions. However, now you are saying that the only bad decisions he made was hiring Spurrier and firing Marty. I'm suggesting that we try to be fair to the man when we criticize. Lately, I'm reading in post after post, how Vinny and Dan blew it on the trade for Jason Taylor. I think the criticism is valid, but what gripes me is that, when it happened, 89% of the posters polled on this site favored the move. I debated the trade with some who were claiming that Taylor would be solely responsible for two or three more wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 People bag on Snyder all the time, but other than the fact that he's exceedingly rich, he isn't much different than most of us. Sorry, I am taller than 5'3" I can have civil conversations with people I know when I'm in over my head - that's when you get experts Seeing Me-ion Sanders in Burgundy and Gold tore me up inside I view the owner meddling in football affairs as something similar to this: :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [*]I know when I'm in over my head - that's when you get experts Dan got the best expert he knew...Joe Gibbs. That didn't work. It only proved how things can go wrong when you delegate too much authority to one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Omg, his ego is preventing him from doing so with the Redskins, so he will keep on getting burned and not learning. Reminds me when he said he wants to win the Sb not only this year but every year. I think he might be learning some, but not quickly enough for my tastes. It seems that Vinny has more control now and also that the directive is to maintain some consistency, use the draft, and avoid making splashy FA signings. However, it seems too early to tell if this is truly the case, and sadly you can never be sure just how much control DS exerts over personnel decisions. I admit to disliking the Danny based upon past behaviors moreso than on recent doings. But, there is quite a large reservoir of ill will that needs to drain from me before I can be really pleased that he is the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Dan got the best expert he knew...Joe Gibbs. That didn't work. It only proved how things can go wrong when you delegate too much authority to one person. If you're going to lead, you need to understand what YOU want before you delegate, you need to communicate it clearly, and you need to check to be sure the delegate is on track with your plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 If you're going to lead, you need to understand what YOU want before you delegate, you need to communicate it clearly, and you need to check to be sure the delegate is on track with your plans. Exactly, but it's more than just clearly stating a goal. For example if our goal is to create a dynasty, there are some basic strategies that follow in roster-building -- and the roster building strategies begin with some basic ideas on schemes. If the owner is going to monitor this process, he has to collaborate with the experts in devising the entire plan so that he understands it fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Dan got the best expert he knew...Joe Gibbs. That didn't work. It only proved how things can go wrong when you delegate too much authority to one person. You should probably correct yourself: delegating too much authority to the head coach. Fact is, many here want a GM which hold most of the power. Right now, that guy is Vinny. While people have a problem with that, they wouldn't have a problem with some other guy who's name wasn't Vinny. If you're going to lead, you need to understand what YOU want before you delegate, you need to communicate it clearly, and you need to check to be sure the delegate is on track with your plans. Course, few here want Danny to dictate anything and want whoever is running football operations to make the decisions and have Danny stay away. I think Danny fully understands what he wants from this team. Others might disagree with the path here, but it is probably what he wants. Otherwise, he wouldn't have promoted Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You should probably correct yourself: delegating too much authority to the head coach. Fact is, many here want a GM which hold most of the power. Right now, that guy is Vinny. While people have a problem with that, they wouldn't have a problem with some other guy who's name wasn't Vinny. I'm really not concerned with what the fans want. I want an owner involved at the head of a modular, flatter organizational structure so that the parts that work can be kept and the parts that don't can be trashed. I wouldn't give Pioli the authority he has in Kansas City -- and it follows that if I wouldn't give it to him, I wouldn't give it to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You should probably correct yourself: delegating too much authority to the head coach. Fact is, many here want a GM which hold most of the power. Right now, that guy is Vinny. While people have a problem with that, they wouldn't have a problem with some other guy who's name wasn't Vinny.Course, few here want Danny to dictate anything and want whoever is running football operations to make the decisions and have Danny stay away. I think Danny fully understands what he wants from this team. Others might disagree with the path here, but it is probably what he wants. Otherwise, he wouldn't have promoted Vinny. out of curiousity...why do you keep calling him "Danny".......is he best friends with the beav? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 out of curiousity...why do you keep calling him "Danny".......is he best friends with the beav? In the past, I have called him "The Danny". Just being playful. I tend to change it up from post-to-post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm really not concerned with what the fans want. I want an owner involved at the head of a modular, flatter organizational structure so that the parts that work can be kept and the parts that don't can be trashed.I wouldn't give Pioli the authority he has in Kansas City -- and it follows that if I wouldn't give it to him, I wouldn't give it to anyone. So here's a hypothetical - and I stress HYPOTHETICAL - question: what do you do if the owner is simply not qualified to understand the technical aspects of the plan? This assumes that efforts to educate the owner are unsuccessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shore-skin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 So here's a hypothetical - and I stress HYPOTHETICAL - question: what do you do if the owner is simply not qualified to understand the technical aspects of the plan? This assumes that efforts to educate the owner are unsuccessful. You hope. You hope that at some point along the way, by a light bulb going off in his head, or by stroke of luck, that the right personnel gets assembled to let us have repeated runs in the playoffs. As much as people like to think the NFL is a science... there is a good portion of luck involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You hope. You hope that at some point along the way, by a light bulb going off in his head, or by stroke of luck, that the right personnel gets assembled to let us have repeated runs in the playoffs. As much as people like to think the NFL is a science... there is a good portion of luck involved. Hey - I said hypothetical... :laugh: BTW I just looked up some stats on our owner and was absolutely chilled to see his birthday is the same as mine. That's frightening!!! Well, at least I'm taller than Tom Cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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