HoyaSkins28 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Every GM misses on players, including Pioli. Chad Jackson hasn't done anything for the Patriots. This guy was all everything in college. So, it happens. What have the Skins done in the last 2 offseasons? They have gone the younger route. The Skins drafted 10 players and the fans still whined. Redskins weren't busy at all in FA, and the fans whined about that. Maybe the Skins have realized their mistakes? Morocco Brown is key in the FO, and nobody seems to talk about him. Since he has been here, has anybody notice how other teams have raided the Skins PRACTICE SQUAD. That tells me a lot. We have to be patient. Synder didn't go with a big name HC. Cowher, Shanahan etc. Instead, he went with Jim Zorn. He got killed for that. "Fire Zorn and hire Shanahan" The fans are screwed up. I'm not saying Synder hasn't made any mistakes, but when it looks like he is changing, fans don't want to see it. They rather point fingers at Vinny, when they should be pointing some of the blame on the players. A lot of the blame should go to the players. Blame Kendall, Cooley, Portis, and Sellars. These 4 guys fumbled at the wrong time. Synders fault? its true that every GM misses and its true that the players need some blame (see Jason Campbell) and you actually make a lot of good points. but theres the GM's that make some bad decisions, and then theres the vinnys of the world. and its not about being quiet in free agency that gets you wins fans need to understand this, its about getting the guy that fits your system and will come in and do his job (see London Fletcher). the years that we go crazy in free agency we sign tons of players that aren't necessary. and the years were quiet we ignore a couple of those role players that will come in and help the team. the draft has been a disaster as we all know because vinny doesnt know how to keep picks. so basically theres good gms, bad gms, and vinny gms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 If Dan Snyder had made such a move in 2000 instead of allowing himself to believe he could be a major player in the personnel management end of an NFL business, and with the resources the Redskins have as an organization, the team would probably now have an additional Lombardi Trophy or two in the case Yup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldpost Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Skins FO lead by Cerrato has made one critical mistake in the Jason Taylor deal. That being said, JT suffered a fluke injury and the coaching staff decided to play him out of position at LE. The draft...I think a lot of the fans along with the beat writers for the team have forgotten how to examine a draft. Maybe if we had more picks recently we would know better but you are judging Cerrato's first draft class after ONE SEASON!!!! Any fan in the world who thinks its fair to judge a player in this past draft after one season has absolutely lost their football sense. Devin Thomas- Was raw coming out of college and was asked to learn the WCO and the fans expected him to come in and have 50 catches when the coaching staff was scared to death to play a rookie Malcolm Kelly- Possibly the most talented receiver in this past draft. A risk with his knee but the talent is there...Why not take a shot at a position of need. His abilioty to overcoem his injuries will be the ? Fred Davis- Shawn Springs last week said he could be the best tight end in football soon. From somebody who has no reason to compliment this FO and has taken a hard stance against them before, I take that with a lot of weight.... Reinhart- Played behind one of the few healthy & consistent members of our o-line in Kendall. Looked good in the preseason until the coaches moved him to tackle. Playing for a position coach who loves vets!!! Tryon- 4th round pick who may not pan out....Has speed but size may not work...we'll know by next preseason Colt- May be the future at QB for this team in a few years...At worst a solid #2 taken in Round 6 Kareem Moore- 3rd safety who can be a spot starter....Had a knee injury heading into camp so expecting improvement is reasonable.... Rob Jackson- Showed signs as a pass rush specialist..... Horton- Can be a pro bowl caliber strong safety I agree with most of this post. Redskin fans don't know or don't remember that Bethard was criticized early and often for draft picks. His special talent was late rounders and UFA's.. Cerrato doesn't have this ability however, Heyer, was a great pickup. Give this draft class atleast three years before grading them so harshly. All the players can't be a Chris Horton..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names. The frustration is that Snyder has spent big money on head coaches, assistant coaches and players over the years, but has failed to spend money where it's needed most - on a top-notch personnel guy. Given how Snyder is willing to spend money, he could probably have his choice of the best personnel execs on the planet if he would just pay them handsomely and give them control. But he's just been so reluctant to do so, and I think it holds us back. Hey, if Vinny does well as the head personnel guy, I'll be happy. I just want this team to win, with or without Vinny. But I do find it mystifying that Snyder, who has been probably spent as much money on coaching and on-field talent as any owner in the league over the past decade, would simply refuse to hire a PROVEN personnel boss. If the freaking Kansas City Chiefs can lure a Scott Pioli, we sure should be able to. We just choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 i personally would of loved to get cj. a proven route runner, dependable game changer, big tall receiver. Disagree. He is a malcontent on the wrong side of 30. We need to build for the future with young and cheap talent. We drafted two receivers; we should focus on developing them. and how are you so sure gibbs as gm would suck. We've seen it, haven't we? He made silly trades for Brunell and Duckett and seemed to place no particular emphasis on draft selections. As Team President, he was the reincarnation of George Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 BTW, I like the staff that Vinny has hired, and while they have a lot to prove, early returns are promising. That's a great point. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. If it were just Vinny sitting in a room by himself, I'd be scared, but that's not the situation. He's got the likes of Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown and the latter was very highly touted as a young up-and-comer when we hired him away from the Bears. Pioli is a skilled team-builder, but he was not alone. He worked well in unison with Bob Craft and Bill Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 re thread title: Funny - when I heard the Chiefs were getting a new GM, I was thinking this same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwpanic Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 it looks like tony gonzalez doesn't feel like rebuilding and is asking to be traded. :secret:don't tell vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As the OP pointed out this team is delusional in that it thinks (it meaning Synderrato) we are a contender. We all know we are a middle of the pack mediocre team and we will continue to be such a team if the delusion, mentioned above, is not removed. Like many teams that are having success now (Ravens, Titans) had to go thorough a few years of rebuilding and here they are. The perferct example is the Titans. They were a great team in the late 90's early 00, but they realized they had an aging roster with huge cap problems. After '02 or '03 (not sure which one) they blew the whole thing up and rebuilt for a few seasons. A couple of high draft picks and Kyle Van den Bosch they are young and will be a team to reckon with for at least the next 3 to 4 years. Once Synderrato realizes that the Redskins as they stand right now are filled with overpriced aging/degrading veterans nothing will change. They will continue to think they are a player away from becoming a perennial contender and as a result the fans will suffer many more years of 6-10 to 10-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't know about this one. I think Kansas City is the biggest mess in the league right now outside of Oakland. And I actually think Oakland has some decent pieces in place if someone could figure out how to lock Al Davis in a meat locker. I would rather try to rebuild Detroit right now. I just don't see anything in KC that you can work with. Miami was a 5-11 team disguised as a 1-15 team. They weren't nearly as awful as their record indicated. The Chiefs are probably worse than a 2-14 record would indicate. But Pioli has the best pedigree in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Well he wants to win. He just refuses to admit that his involvement in football operations is the reason we don't win. b-i-n-g-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think you're wrong in this instance Jason. I don't believe it's so much clamoring for a big name but clamoring for a proven personnel guy. Or is it your belief that Pioli's not proven? Well, Savage was supposed to be a "proven" personnel guy, but he failed in Cleveland. Also, as we have seen, having a track record elsewhere isn't a guarantee that it will be repeated elsewhere. Fact is, Snyder committed the team to this path when he named Vinny to his current position. To change that would be to repeat the mistakes of the past, when he chased after Spurrier after giving Marty one year. Granted, there were other factors involved, but at the time I knew it would cause a lot of upheaval. Then there is the fact that KC probably is more attractive to Pioli anyways. They have some decent young picks, the 3rd pick in the draft and 30m in cap space. The frustration is that Snyder has spent big money on head coaches, assistant coaches and players over the years, but has failed to spend money where it's needed most - on a top-notch personnel guy. Given how Snyder is willing to spend money, he could probably have his choice of the best personnel execs on the planet if he would just pay them handsomely and give them control. But he's just been so reluctant to do so, and I think it holds us back. Actually, he probably doesn't have his choice, since most of the proven people have jobs, and they don't change jobs all that often. Often you see someone's assistant getting hired for the job, either internally or from another team. In that case, you are still talking about an inexperienced guy, even if he comes from a successful organization. As for what we have, I like the guys that are under Vinny. Scott Campbell has proven himself with some good drafts in the past 3 years. Morocco Brown has made a good first impression by putting together a great PS which was unfortunately raided by other teams. There is a lot of good potential here that shouldn't just be thrown away to chase after a big name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 it looks like tony gonzalez doesn't feel like rebuilding and is asking to be traded.:secret:don't tell vinny. I imagine Pioli can't trade Gonzalez fast enough. That's the only asset they really have and they need to cash it in. (Though don't be surprised if Larry Johnson is gone next year too. I just don't think he has much value.) By the way...if you are the Giants and no longer have a big red zone target with Burress...and Pioli offers you Gonzalez for one of your second round picks...you almost have to do it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names. It's also funny that Snyder "chose" the low profile guy after getting turned down by a higher profile choice. I'm sorry but Zorn was the fallback choice after nobody they wanted would take the job. But then that was a problem of their own making. After all, what NFL HC or prospective HC worth his salt would walk into a situation where Lord Farquaad and Mini Me have already selected an offensive coordinator? Yeah, Danny's learned his lessons about meddling. Sure he has. I think it's a safe bet that Bulldog's prediction that the Chefs will be a contender in two or three years while we'll still be spinning our wheels at .500...if we're lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As usual every other team (except the Raiders) fixes there problems while the Redskins continue to spin their wheels and make the same mistakes over and over. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I imagine Pioli can't trade Gonzalez fast enough. That's the only asset they really have and they need to cash it in. Danny: Gas up Redskins One!! We've still got a first round pick that needs to be jettisoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Janky Spanky Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I agree with the OP here. When Gibbs was here, I at least felt like there was solid leadership and good judgment pushing back against Danny and Cerrato. Now it's just those 2 at the top and that really scares me. And yes, too often Ocho Cinco near-debacle is not mentioned. That was a near disaster. It was obvious this year that our problem was the O-line first. Giving up a first rounder and potentially another for 85 would have been awful, and it goes back to how Danny thinks you can build a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 i would agree so. but i mean lets see how this draft pans out, i think snyder/cerrato finally are knowing what they want to do and how to build a team Yeah -- you keep thinking that. So,...does that Kool Aid taste yummy or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 By the way...if you are the Giants and no longer have a big red zone target with Burress...and Pioli offers you Gonzalez for one of your second round picks...you almost have to do it' date=' right?[/quote']No. The Giants don't need an ageing TE, the need a big WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwpanic Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I imagine Pioli can't trade Gonzalez fast enough. That's the only asset they really have and they need to cash it in.(Though don't be surprised if Larry Johnson is gone next year too. I just don't think he has much value.) By the way...if you are the Giants and no longer have a big red zone target with Burress...and Pioli offers you Gonzalez for one of your second round picks...you almost have to do it' date=' right?[/quote'] honestly, with eli/jacobs/tuck coming to his defense, i think burress stays. i was REALLY hoping he'd be out of our division next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 After all, what NFL HC or prospective HC worth his salt would walk into a situation where Lord Farquaad and Mini Me have already selected an offensive coordinator? To me, that is still the most bizarre thing Danny has ever done. Granted, Mike Tomlin kept Dick Lebeau but..... a) It's Dick Freakin' Lebeau, and It seems that he raised the point of keeping Lebeau first. It may have been implied from the Rooneys that keeping Lebeau was the wise move, but I never have gotten the impression that Tomlin had no say in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I can't predict that the Chiefs are going to improve as dramatically as the Dolphins did in going from 1-15 to 11-5 in one season, but mark my words in saying that the Kansas City Chiefs in 2-3 seasons will be a team to be reckoned with in the AFC West. What position does Scott Pioli play? Let's see how he does without Brady and Belichick... Pioli has been in the same system, surrounded by the same people for most of his career. BTW, Pioli and the Patriots passed on Tom Brady 5-6 times also. It's not like they knew they had a franchise QB when they picked him. The rest of the picks are pretty average, and once the team was in place they added significant pieces through free agency and trade (not the draft)... Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Jabar Gaffney, Lamont Jordan, Rodney Harrison, Sammy Morris (to name a few key components over the last 7 years or so)... Patriots got lucky landing Tom Brady in the 6th round... You get a franchise QB, it's the first step to building a contender. Quite a few of the free agents and current players who took less money to stay in New England were the result from having Brady and Belichick. Anyway, back to the Chiefs... My prediction? In 3 years, the Chiefs won't be better than the Redskins. Pioli has to get rid of Herm Edwards... If he doesn't, he is a bigger idiot than most here think Cerrato is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 No. The Giants don't need an ageing TE, the need a big WR. The Giants are actually in a bit of a quandry. They have too many picks considering how many first and second year guys are on their roster. It's going to sound weird, but that team actually needs to get a bit older. Gonzalez is still an 80-catch guy. And someone has to catch those 10-foot high passes Eli throws. And Tony wants to win. Think of another contender with the assets to make the deal and the need for a big target? New England doesn't really need a big target, and I doubt they deal with Pioli but I could see some kind of insane package deal involving Cassel and Gonzalez and KC's #1 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galiano12 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think it's a safe bet that Bulldog's prediction that the Chefs will be a contender in two or three years while we'll still be spinning our wheels at .500...if we're lucky. Great Googly Moogly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 What position does Scott Pioli play? Let's see how he does without Brady and Belichick... Pioli has been in the same system, surrounded by the same people for most of his career.BTW, Pioli and the Patriots passed on Tom Brady 5-6 times also. It's not like they knew they had a franchise QB when they picked him. The rest of the picks are pretty average, and once the team was in place they added significant pieces through free agency and trade (not the draft)... Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Jabar Gaffney, Lamont Jordan, Rodney Harrison, Sammy Morris (to name a few key components over the last 7 years or so)... Patriots got lucky landing Tom Brady in the 6th round... You get a franchise QB, it's the first step to building a contender. Quite a few of the free agents and current players who took less money to stay in New England were the result from having Brady and Belichick. Anyway, back to the Chiefs... My prediction? In 3 years, the Chiefs won't be better than the Redskins. Pioli has to get rid of Herm Edwards... If he doesn't, he is a bigger idiot than most here think Cerrato is. I could agree with this theory except that there's the issue of Matt Cassell. I guess Pioli just got lucky there too huh? Besides, take look at the Patsies' draft history. They sure do seem to get "lucky" an awful lot, especially in the later rounds of the draft. So that begs the question, how much "luck" does one have to have before it becomes clear that it's actually skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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