ashsra Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 What Snyder and Vinny need to realize is that we are not currently 1 or 2 players away from being legit Super Bowl contenders. That's why we always end up being mediocre because they trade away all our draft picks to get 1 or 2 guys who they think are stud veterans but normally turn out to be on the downside (Jason Taylor, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, etc.) Until we actually start trying to build a good foundation of young players nothing will ever change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think Bulldog nailed it. Bottom line is....Snyder might have been the strength of his previous company. But as the top of this Organization. He is a weakness. I know it sucks......but if he replaced Vinny with skilled NFL minds......and let them do their thing. Maybe focus his efforts of just getting his team more pub all over the place. He could still feel like he played a role. But, if you're trying to play a role in the draft and FA now....it just ain't working. Oh well.....such is life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 What Snyder and Vinny need to realize is that we are not currently 1 or 2 players away from being legit Super Bowl contenders. That's why we always end up being mediocre because they trade away all our draft picks to get 1 or 2 guys who they think are stud veterans but normally turn out to be on the downside (Jason Taylor, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, etc.) Until we actually start trying to build a good foundation of young players nothing will ever change. You're saying this after Vinny's first year? (Which by the way was the year we accumulated additional draft picks and ended up with 10 selections??) They made one mistake in Jason Taylor...and while I think it was a bad move, Taylor was playing hurt after a fluke injury all last season....I hope he's back at a reduced salary and playing his natural RE spot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As always agree with everything you say bulldog. Being a fan of Washington sports really blows. Unless you like the Capitals. Now THERE'S a team who knows how to build a franchise and be successful. :applause:Maybe we could bring in Ted Leonsis as GM. Maybe he doesn't know a thing about football. That's ok - he'd still know more than Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 So far the only real defense of Vinny has been to shift the blame away from Vinny. Does anybody actually think Vinny is better than Pioli? There is no salary cap for front offices. We should have one of the best front offices in the NFL, not a front office that, at best, is unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As long as the bottom line doesn't hurt, I doubt Snyder gives a crap about winning. You know what I think it is, and keep in mind I hate Snyder, I think he wants to win, but he wants to be involved in the winning. He doesnt want to just sit back and let a football guy like Pioli make desicions without his input. In comes Vinny. Any competent GM probaly wouldnt even want to come here because he knows that Snyder will be meddeling and it will be a group effort. Dont know if its ever worked for a different team but I seriously doubt it. Owners are supposed to sign the checks and thats it. Sadly, he will never change. So all we can do is ***** and moan and hope to god that Snyder some gets good at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The extremist Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 ugh...snyder didn't cash in on TWO wide-open chances (the other one was after the '05 season, iirc) to hire away pioli....someone needs to bookmark this thread once we see the direction the chiefs are going two years from now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 So far the only real defense of Vinny has been to shift the blame away from Vinny.Does anybody actually think Vinny is better than Pioli? There is no salary cap for front offices. We should have one of the best front offices in the NFL, not a front office that, at best, is unproven. This is why many fans think Vinny signed his contract in devil's ink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 How about if we see if Pioli can do it without Belichick and Tom Brady before we anoint him a genius? I swear, people here want to chase the big names worse than what they accuse Snyder of doing. BTW, I like the staff that Vinny has hired, and while they have a lot to prove, early returns are promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance04 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 You're saying this after Vinny's first year? (Which by the way was the year we accumulated additional draft picks and ended up with 10 selections??) They made one mistake in Jason Taylor...and while I think it was a bad move, Taylor was playing hurt after a fluke injury all last season....I hope he's back at a reduced salary and playing his natural RE spot.... riiight. Blame his entire, terrible, terrible season on injury. completely ignore the fact that Parcells shipped him out because he was done. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you his drive is gone, cuz I dont know. But what I do know is that he is under sized to play in our division, and if us, pedestrian fans know that he is playing at the wrong position, then what does that say about the coaches who put him there, and by extension, the people who hired said coaches? Unless you like the Capitals. Now THERE'S a team who knows how to build a franchise and be successful. :applause:Maybe we could bring in Ted Leonsis as GM. Maybe he doesn't know a thing about football. That's ok - he'd still know more than Vinny. Life long hockey fan here. You make it seem like the Caps have been contenders for the last 15 years. Fact is they haven't. Only in the last 4 years have they began to do it right with key draft picks and signing the correct vets who provide great leadership. Remember when Ovechkin fell into the Caps lap? Most hockey pundits said it would be terrible for AO cuz he is going to a dysfunctional franchise, who by the way, was still paying some of Jagr's salary when he was still playing for the Rangers, some 4 years later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Life long hockey fan here. You make it seem like the Caps have been contenders for the last 15 years. Fact is they haven't. Only in the last 4 years have they began to do it right with key draft picks and signing the correct vets who provide great leadership.At least Ted is learning the right way to do things - that was my point. Right now - you can't say the same for Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 They hired a 4-12 Jets coach and he went 4-12 again after two years. Perhaps they hired a new GM but I don't think we can judge the better team 2-3 years from now until they happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 At least Ted is learning the right way to do things - that was my point. Right now - you can't say the same for Snyder. Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance04 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 At least Ted is learning the right way to do things - that was my point. Right now - you can't say the same for Snyder. I misunderstood what u meant then. You are bang on in that case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Unless you like the Capitals. Now THERE'S a team who knows how to build a franchise and be successful. :applause:Maybe we could bring in Ted Leonsis as GM. Maybe he doesn't know a thing about football. That's ok - he'd still know more than Vinny. 1. In Cerrato's first season here he used 10 draft picks. The only difference is the Skins fan base is not letting these players develop and is quickly rushing to judgement 2. I'm tried of the Hockey argument....Hockey and basketball are different...An Ovechkin can turn an entire franchise around much like a Lebron can in basketball. Does that mean Cleveland's gm was a genius? The only position with that type of potential impact in football is QB but unfortunately we don't have that type of generational or franchise QB here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names.You're right - the jury is out on that. However, the Caps have 4 years of progress and seem to be heading in the right direction. The Skins have had one offseason so far they've focused on the draft and building. Give me 4 years of that from the Skins - and then I'll be a lot more positive about the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 At least Ted is learning the right way to do things - that was my point. Right now - you can't say the same for Snyder. Why not? Did we not invest heavily in the draft this past season? We only traded a pick out of necessity due to a training camp injury. Plus early indications are we will trade down for additional picks again if the right guy isn't available.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 1. In Cerrato's first season here he used 10 draft picks. The only difference is the Skins fan base is not letting these players develop and is quickly rushing to judgementI'm all for letting the rookies develop. Most Skins fans have been begging for that type of long-term commitment. Let's see if it sticks. 2. I'm tried of the Hockey argument....Hockey and basketball are different...An Ovechkin can turn an entire franchise around much like a Lebron can in basketball. Does that mean Cleveland's gm was a genius? The only position with that type of potential impact in football is QB but unfortunately we don't have that type of generational or franchise QB here.Hmmm.... I think there's a lesson to be learned those last two statements somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Why not? Did we not invest heavily in the draft this past season? We only traded a pick out of necessity due to a training camp injury. Plus early indications are we will trade down for additional picks again if the right guy isn't available....See below: You're right - the jury is out on that. However, the Caps have 4 years of progress and seem to be heading in the right direction. The Skins have had one offseason so far they've focused on the draft and building. Give me 4 years of that from the Skins - and then I'll be a lot more positive about the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 but that's one of the principal signs that the current FO doesn't get it you don't trade #2 and #6 picks for a 34 year old 244 pound DE who won't be able to hold up in the run game against a tough division that has runners like Brandon Jacobs, Marion Barber and Brian Westbrook. the simple fact is as a GM you don't give up part of your future for a Jason Taylor's present contribution UNLESS you are very close to a title. this team was NO WHERE close to being that assured of its position as a true contender in 2008 to make that move. Scott Pioli or a Bill Parcells would have known that But why did the Skins trade for Taylor? When 2 DE's go down the first day of training camp, something had to be done. The organization had no idea that Taylor would be hurt most of the year. Now, if Taylor had 15 sacks, the fans would have to find something else to whine about. Taylor has had the most sacks since 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Jury's still out on that. It is funny that we've gotten to the point where Snyder goes with the low profile choice for head coach and the fans are the ones chasing the big names. I think you're wrong in this instance Jason. I don't believe it's so much clamoring for a big name but clamoring for a proven personnel guy. Or is it your belief that Pioli's not proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Every GM misses on players, including Pioli. Chad Jackson hasn't done anything for the Patriots. This guy was all everything in college. So, it happens. What have the Skins done in the last 2 offseasons? They have gone the younger route. The Skins drafted 10 players and the fans still whined. Redskins weren't busy at all in FA, and the fans whined about that. Maybe the Skins have realized their mistakes? Morocco Brown is key in the FO, and nobody seems to talk about him. Since he has been here, has anybody notice how other teams have raided the Skins PRACTICE SQUAD. That tells me a lot. We have to be patient. Synder didn't go with a big name HC. Cowher, Shanahan etc. Instead, he went with Jim Zorn. He got killed for that. "Fire Zorn and hire Shanahan" The fans are screwed up. I'm not saying Synder hasn't made any mistakes, but when it looks like he is changing, fans don't want to see it. They rather point fingers at Vinny, when they should be pointing some of the blame on the players. A lot of the blame should go to the players. Blame Kendall, Cooley, Portis, and Sellars. These 4 guys fumbled at the wrong time. Synders fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think what will be even more impressive than the player evaluations Pioli will bring to KC is the staff he assembles... look for a complete system with everyone on the same page... there will be organization, a shared belief and a definitive skill set that will be used to manage the roster... something we have never had since danny took over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoyaSkins28 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 it really stinks having cerrato. i almost hope the skins don't make the playoffs again so snyder will man up and fire him. well not really but i do want him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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