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Terminator 4 (and also now 5) merged--updates--MET

Spaceman Spiff

By Spaceman Spiff
in The Tailgate

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motorhead

motorhead

Posted
Posted
I saw it at midnight. I'd give it a B+.

Star Trek set the bar incredibly high for the summer movies and Terminator just couldn't reach that level. Don't get me wrong, I liked it a lot, but Star Trek has set the curve.

You are right!

It was good but,Not nearly as good as Star Trek.

I would say save your money OP and watch it on DVD or the interwebs.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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Wow, tell me something that I don't know.

I did not follow the Star Trek installments so they only person I could name off top is Luke (or is Duke)

That's Star Wars. Wait, you're kidding right?

Luke?

That's STAR WARS.

In our culture, how the hell do people NOT know the difference between Star Trek/Star Wars. Seriously?!

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ArmchairRedskin

ArmchairRedskin

Posted
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I've now seen this. I'm a huge fan of the Terminator series and T1 and T2 rank among my favorite movies of all time. I'll even watch T3 if it's on tv. So with that in mind and me trying my best to be objective, here's what I think.

The action was awesome. I don't thinkn there's been a movie that relied that heavily on effects and looked that good from start to finish.

Marcus' character was far and away the best thing about this movie. The actor playing him (I wanna say it's Sam Worthington?) has a lot of charisma. He and Blair had a really good dynamic together.

Arnie's "appearance" was a really well done effect. He looked young and real.

Christian Bale once again plays a character who should have a lot of charisma as a one note bore. Just like in Batman, he plays this guy in the range from sort of pissed off to really pissed off. Seriously, Bale, how about you try to get a wider range of emotions into your parts? That dude seriously was disappointing as a guy you would figure to be either a really dynamic hero that is truly a great leader, or a really tragic figure who is caught between who he is and who thinks he should be. Bale projects none of that.

The story is servicable, the script lacked character moments. Nobody was really fleshed out and some of the actors were wasted.Bryce Dallas Howard had little to do, Michael Ironsides was really a waste in his role, and Helen Bonham Carter made a weird transition in character from the start of the movie to the end. Unless I missed something there seems to be a major disconnect in how she acts with no explanation. Maybe there is a lot of stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor? Maybe they decided to go full bore action for the theater release, I dunno. What I do know is there seems to be dialogue missing.

Anyway, if you wanna see the Resistance vs Skynet and some really cool action scenes, then this movie delivers. If you want a gripping story set in the Terminator universe, then you're gonna be disappointed. You may want to wait for the unrated/directors cut DVD release to see if they actually have some missing dialogue that gives it's characters better life and motivation.

I'd give this a 7/10

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styx491

styx491

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Armchair, I agree with almost everything you said except I though Bale did a really good job, as did Worthington. What you saw as one note issues I saw as character, and he developed pretty nicely. I totally think they left a ton of stuff out too, because a lot could be explained but wasn't. I also think the ending seemed rushed, it went balls to the wall for 2 hours and then kinda just fizzled without much oomph as it had going for it, and then it was over.

And man does it go balls to the wall haha, the action is pretty much the best I've ever seen. I can't think of a movie off the top of my head with better action scenes and effects than this one. I recommend watching it in theaters for the action and effects, and hopefully you'll enjoy the actors and the attempt at a story enough to get your money's worth.

Spoilers ahead.

They could have added a LOT more than just a simple head nod from Connor to Marcus as a thank you for Marcus giving Connor his ****ING HEART! These two great characters could have had an amazing moment here ala the Joker and Batman's last convo. In the end, this was just another episode in the Terminator saga, and that is how it's played.

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TK

TK

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The action was great. Hell it's almost ALL action. The story however needed to be fleshed out a bit more. Character development seemed like a foriegn concept. I'm thinking a lot of us had gotten spoiled by the writing of the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The Arnold CGI bit was a very nice touch though.:) And it's also interesting that Conner is now alive because of the transplant which really cause him some internal striff & conflicts for the next film.

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Metalhead

Metalhead

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Armchair, I agree with almost everything you said except I though Bale did a really good job, as did Worthington. What you saw as one note issues I saw as character, and he developed pretty nicely. I totally think they left a ton of stuff out too, because a lot could be explained but wasn't. I also think the ending seemed rushed, it went balls to the wall for 2 hours and then kinda just fizzled without much oomph as it had going for it, and then it was over.

And man does it go balls to the wall haha, the action is pretty much the best I've ever seen. I can't think of a movie off the top of my head with better action scenes and effects than this one. I recommend watching it in theaters for the action and effects, and hopefully you'll enjoy the actors and the attempt at a story enough to get your money's worth.

Spoilers ahead.

They could have added a LOT more than just a simple head nod from Connor to Marcus as a thank you for Marcus giving Connor his ****ING HEART! These two great characters could have had an amazing moment here ala the Joker and Batman's last convo. In the end, this was just another episode in the Terminator saga, and that is how it's played.

I agree with you and Armchair all the way. I thought it was a really good movie until the end.

The action, special effects, and look of a post-apocalyptic world is the best I've seen. The opening event in the satellite field was exceptional and had some fantastic camera work and angles, not to mention the helicopter crash. Possibly the best action sequence ever imo.

Now, what is the point of critically injuring Connor with 5 minutes remaining if you are going to wrap it up in a lame, convenient little bow? Just to support a scenario that could kill Marcus? It's too bad they botched the ending, it had a lot of potential. I found it strange that they never showed Marcus after the surgery/transplant. Also, I didn't detect any glaring loose ends so what is going to happen in the next film? Or should there even be one?

So what's with the bad ratings and reviews? Star Trek was weak, excruciatingly cliche, had pointless events and was predictable...yet is the "one to beat". Yes it was fun and had great pacing, but it appears to be over-hyped due to nostalgia alone. And Star Trek had an even more absurd time travel conundrum than the Terminator franchise.

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TK

TK

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and look of a post-apocalyptic world is the best I've seen. The opening event in the satellite field was exceptional and had some fantastic camera work and angles, not to mention the helicopter crash. Possibly the best action sequence ever imo.

So what's with the bad ratings and reviews? Star Trek was weak, excruciatingly cliche, had pointless events and was predictable...yet is the "one to beat". Yes it was fun and had great pacing, but it appears to be over-hyped due to nostalgia alone. And Star Trek had an even more absurd time travel conundrum than the Terminator franchise.

That gritty look the film had was really well done. And the copter crash surpassed that crash scene in Black Hawk Down. I can't wait til this comes out on Blu Ray.:)

I think Trek is still the one to beat though due to pacing & comedy at the right times & in the right doses. Plus, even though Trek had the nostalgia thing going for it, the character development was much better.

EDIT

Guns N Roses' You Could Be Mine was also a really cool attention to detail add in. :) I'm surprised no one else has mentioned that T2 tie in yet.

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Metalhead

Metalhead

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That gritty look the film had was really well done. And the copter crash surpassed that crash scene in Black Hawk Down. I can't wait til this comes out on Blu Ray.:)

I think Trek is still the one to beat though due to pacing & comedy at the right times & in the right doses. Plus, even though Trak had the nostalgia thing going for it, the character development was much better.

EDIT

Guns N Roses' You Could Be Mine was also a really cool attention to detail add in. :) I'm surprised no one else has mentioned that tie in yet.

I definitely agree with you on character development. Star Trek did an amazing job of casting, very impressive.

I noticed a few things that were tie-ins, the GNR song being one of them. Another being the one-handed shotgun pump by Kyle when he was on the towtruck vehicle. It may be pushing it as a nod, but I knew I saw it before.

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Destino

Destino

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action was good, plot had holes large enough for a skynet prisoner transport, and Christian Bale once again sucked. I don't see how he gets so much good press the guy over does the anger and "tough guy" voice all the time and has no other gear to switch into.

6/10

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Skins24

Skins24

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I found it strange that they never showed Marcus after the surgery/transplant. Also, I didn't detect any glaring loose ends so what is going to happen in the next film? Or should there even be one?

I think they should continue. There's going to be two more right?

That's probably why they didn't show Marcus. I don't think he's done...

Anyway, good very enjoyable movie. Great action!

Star Trek may be a bit better, but not by much IMO.

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styx491

styx491

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action was good, plot had holes large enough for a skynet prisoner transport, and Christian Bale once again sucked. I don't see how he gets so much good press the guy over does the anger and "tough guy" voice all the time and has no other gear to switch into.

6/10

I recommend American Psycho, The Machinist, and Rescue Dawn. Three characters who are totally different and totally unique.

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Skins PR

Skins PR

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Saw it last night. This movie blooooooooooooows.

The acting was terrible. The ending was stupid and pointless. The characters all sucked. Why didn't the machines just shoot Connor's father in the head once they identified him? What was up with the lady at the end telling Marcus that so many machines before him had failed to kill Connor? They hadn't sent anyone back in time yet. How do they even know that Connor is such a big deal?

Negative Infinity / 10

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Metalhead

Metalhead

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Posted
Saw it last night. This movie blooooooooooooows.

The acting was terrible. The ending was stupid and pointless. The characters all sucked. Why didn't the machines just shoot Connor's father in the head once they identified him? What was up with the lady at the end telling Marcus that so many machines before him had failed to kill Connor? They hadn't sent anyone back in time yet. How do they even know that Connor is such a big deal?

Negative Infinity / 10

Well they didn't kill his father immediately because they used him as bait to draw in Connor. They discussed this in the film, you just may have missed it. On second thought, do villains ever just kill the hero without hesitation? Yeah it drives us nuts but that's just the way movie villains are.

I agree, the ending was lame. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE thinks the same, even fans of the franchise (like me).

You bring up a very good question. So far, according to the movies alone, Connor hasn't done squat to be regarded as such an important figure. I guess we'll just have to see what the next movie or two has in store for John Connor to validate all the time travel by the machines (and the entire premise of the franchise).

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mnb123

mnb123

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Anyone know if or when The Sarah Connor Chronicles season 2 begins? Are they bringing it back?

Season two already happened.

It didnt get renewed for a 3rd season, though, so the show is no more unless it finds another network.

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Skins PR

Skins PR

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Well they didn't kill his father immediately because they used him as bait to draw in Connor. They discussed this in the film, you just may have missed it.

No, I caught that but it didn't make sense. Why not just kill his father, thus preventing him from ever being born in the first place?

How would they even know that guy is Jon Connor's father? How would they be able to identify him since he had never been anything but a civilian on the streets of LA?

What's up with them pulling out the "No fate but what we make" line at the end? Wasn't the whole point of #3 that Judgment Day was inevitable and you couldn't change the future? Oh wait, I forgot that female terminator killed a bunch of would-be lieutenants in #3, thus changing the future... So which is it A-holes?

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Metalhead

Metalhead

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No, I caught that but it didn't make sense. Why not just kill his father, thus preventing him from ever being born in the first place?

How would they even know that guy is Jon Connor's father? How would they be able to identify him since he had never been anything but a civilian on the streets of LA?

What's up with them pulling out the "No fate but what we make" line at the end? Wasn't the whole point of #3 that Judgment Day was inevitable and you couldn't change the future? Oh wait, I forgot that female terminator killed a bunch of would-be lieutenants in #3, thus changing the future... So which is it A-holes?

I dont know, lol. Yeah to begin with the time-travel premise is ridiculous, but Salvation may have blown it out of proportion. Perhaps Connor could still exist in flesh and blood even though his father may die in the future? We haven't invented time travel yet, so we don't know. I mean if he didn't, would he just vaporize into atoms, slowly fade away, or disappear in a flash?

The contradiction of "fate is inevitable" versus "fate is what we make it" is kinda screwy. I can't explain it and I don't think the producers could either...it's a pretty big gaffe on their part. If it was inevitable, we may as well not live and simply fast-forward to the end of existence since it is already in place.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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The paradox of time travel and the, uh, desire to make more Terminators is the source of the conflict between humans being captains of their destiny and fate being inescapable.

I view it something like a bounded region where we DO control specific circumstances but beyond that limit is 'fate.' Basically, because of the confluence of circumstances leading to human technological development and desire to create a neural net/thinking machine, Judgment Day's date and circumstances changed but it was inevitable. Our war against the Machines, against the Machine in Us All (which is what the entire franchise is really about, our war with ourselves as manifested in the machine) and thus it must always happen.

I almost wonder if Connor is made into the figure he is (initially, the first movie treated it as a given, of course but go with me) to draw the attention and focus of the Terminators and that, just as you'd think of with a character whose initials are JC, that h

Also, I kind of thought of Marcus Wright as "Second Chance" for Barabas. Barabas was a murderer and robber and he was the one the mobs called for to be released. JC died as a result. Now, Wright gives his heart so that JC can live and fulfill his mission.

But I believe that, in the end, JC will serve as a sacrifice (just as the original JC) to preserve some operation or mission that destroys Skynet once and for all.

I also figured that Skynet did not kill Reese because with paradoxes being what they are, if they kill him, Connor like Judgment Day, may be inevitable.

But it is a pretty big hole for Skynet to KNOW it has Reese. Meh.

Also Helena Bonham Carter's character was well-meaning but Skynet just appeared as her because Wright "processed" her image better.

BTW, that was almost something out of Star Trek V, where the "God" that Sybok, Kirk, Bones and Spock find in the center of the galaxy finally demonstrates he's no Divine Being and says, "I have many faces but this one suits you best" and turns into Sybok himself.

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