Missile strikes reportedly kill 28 in Pakistan

[BigMike619]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/31/pakistan.missile.strike/index.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Two suspected U.S. missile strikes killed 28 people Friday in northwest Pakistan, military sources and local and intelligence officials said.

In the first strike, suspected U.S. missiles from two unmanned drones hit a village in North Waziristan, a region near the Afghan border, killing 21 people, local and intelligence officials said.

According to the officials, the attack occurred in a village in Mir Ali. The missiles hit a house, which then burned to the ground, the officials said. It was not immediately clear if those killed, who were not identified, had been inside.

But The Associated Press reported, citing intelligence sources, that one of those killed was al Qaeda operative Abu Kasha.

____________________________________________

hmm...

[Metskins]

Is it ok to give a fist pump here?

[Mad Mike]

Oh hell yeah.

One of these days, one of these chumps we are targeting is going to walk into OBL's house and we are going to reduce him to a fine red mist (as sarge would say :-)

[zoony]

:fingersx: :fingersx:

[#98QBKiller]

_______

[BigMike619]

Personally I like the fact that they were UAV's. no need to put our boys at risk when you can get a "drone" to do the same thing.

its gotta be surreal to be the controller of one of those things. Its gotta be close to a video game..

[Midnight Judges]

Is it ok to give a fist pump here?

No.

Even though I agree that it is necessary to kill those who attacked us or are planning to attack us even if they reside within Pakistan's borders, I don't think it's appropriate to celebrate this kind of strike because based on the information in this thread, there is a chance some innocent life was lost.

To me, the proper conduct is to acknowledge that we did what was necessary even though there may be some unfortunate or tragic consequences.

[MurrayH81]

Isn't this exactly what Senator Obama said he would do regarding Osama Bin Laden and al-Queda?

I seem to remember Senator McCain and others villifying him for this approach (violating Pakistan's borders) when he espoused it.

Now it's okay because the current Administration is doing it?

[Midnight Judges]

Isn't this exactly what Senator Obama said he would do regarding Osama Bin Laden and al-Queda?

I seem to remember Senator McCain and others villifying him for this approach (violating Pakistan's borders) when he espoused it.

That's exactly correct. So did Hillary BTW. In fact the Republicans, McCain included, went around saying that Obama was going to start a war by doing precisely this. To me this just illustrates how much Hillary and Mccain woft around in the political winds rather than trusting their gut. How clueless do you have to be to think Americans would somehow dissaprove of us going after the people who attacked us on 9/11?

To his credit though, McCain did a complete 180 on this issue. In a recent debate he hedged his criticism by impying that he too would bomb terrorist camps in Pakistan, he just wouldn't say it in public.

[Dance04]

applause for most likely killing innocent people?

[SkinsHokieFan]

:doh:

Within one week, there will be a major suicide bombing in Pakistan

THIS IS THE WRONG APPROACH IN THE BORDER REGION

[SkinsHokieFan]

How clueless do you have to be to think Americans would somehow dissaprove of us going after the people who attacked us on 9/11?

.

When the American people realize this approach is the wrong approach (missles from predator drones which may or may not even hit the target we are trying to hit) and Pakistan is in the midst of civil war, we'll get it

After every one of these since Musharaff was ousted, there has been a major suicide attack. And I am not counting on the PPP gov't to protect the people from what will come in the next few weeks

[Teller]

applause for most likely killing innocent people?

What do you base that assumption on?

[Corcaigh]

:doh:

Within one week, there will be a major suicide bombing in Pakistan

THIS IS THE WRONG APPROACH IN THE BORDER REGION

Oh come on. The USA would have understood completely and accepted it if the British had used missile attacks on the homes of suspected IRA terrorists in Boston and New York.

In the 1980's and 1990's a number of admitted IRA terrorists were given safe harbor in the USA, because in the words of the American courts, they might face mistreatment in the British justice system.:doh:

[SkinsHokieFan]

What do you base that assumption on?

The assumption I will base it on is we probably killed a bunch of pahtans.

The problem is, pahtans have no clue why missles are coming in and blowing stuff up around them

We are literally talking about the most uneducated and ignorant people on earth. So whatever intel we get from them, well who the hell knows if its any good, because these incredibly simply people have no idea what is going on

What they do know is this. 28 of their people got killed. To them these people weren't "bad" because they were one of them

The pahtans also know that it was either the government of Pakistan or the Amrikans who did this. Probably the Amrikans.

They'll then harbor and support anyone who will get revenge against the Amrikans. And the cycle will begin again, as a suicide bomb goes off somewhere this month in Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, Multan, Quetta or Peshewar.

[SkinsHokieFan]

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=58949

MIRANSHAH: A suspected missile strike by US spy drones destroyed a vehicle and a house in tribal area bordering Afghanistan Friday, killing at least 21 people, security officials said.

Two missiles were involved in the strike west of Mir Ali, a town in the troubled North Waziristan tribal region that is a known hub of Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants, they said.

The attack came just two days after Pakistan, a key ally in the US-led "war on terror", summoned Washington's ambassador to Islamabad to receive a strong protest over a number of similar strikes.

The latest targeted an Al-Qaeda operative, possibly an Iraqi, but officials citing local intelligence reports said he was not believed to be among the dead.

Officials gave the targeted militant's name as Abu Akasa Al-Iraqi. Local residents said the strike hit the house of a Pakistani tribesman named Amanullah Dawar.

It was the 17th such strike in the past 10 weeks, according to sources.

A strike on Sunday killed senior Taliban commander Haji Omar Khan, a lieutenant of veteran Afghan Taliban chieftain and former anti-Soviet fighter Jalaluddin Haqqani.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The assumption I will base it on is we probably killed a bunch of pahtans.

The problem is, pahtans have no clue why missles are coming in and blowing stuff up around them

We are literally talking about the most uneducated and ignorant people on earth. So whatever intel we get from them, well who the hell knows if its any good, because these incredibly simply people have no idea what is going on

What they do know is this. 28 of their people got killed. To them these people weren't "bad" because they were one of them

The pahtans also know that it was either the government of Pakistan or the Amrikans who did this. Probably the Amrikans.

They'll then harbor and support anyone who will get revenge against the Amrikans. And the cycle will begin again, as a suicide bomb goes off somewhere this month in Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, Multan, Quetta or Peshewar.

I think the US needs to reserve the right to into camps in Pakistan if we have to. (And, yes, that is me saying that).

The problem is to a large extent, attacks in Pakistan or actually attacks on oridance. The hope is that you take enough leadership to make any attacks by Pahtans directionless and ultimately meaningless.

There is a definte heirarchy in these terrorist groups with educated Saudis and the like making the decisions and uneducated and unsophisticated tribesmen carrying out the attacks. A bunch of angry villagers in Pakistan aren't going to be able to carry out a sophisticated attack, regardless of how angry they are.

But that is not to say that we should attack indisriminately either.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think the US needs to reserve the right to into camps in Pakistan if we have to. (And' date=' yes, that is me saying that).

The problem is to a large extent, attacks in Pakistan or actually attacks on oridance. The hope is that you take enough leadership to make any attacks by Pahtans directionless and ultimately meaningless.

There is a definte heirarchy in these terrorist groups with educated Saudis and the like making the decisions and uneducated and unsophisticated tribesmen carrying out the attacks. A bunch of angry villagers in Pakistan aren't going to be able to carry out a sophisticated attack, regardless of how angry they are.

But that is not to say that we should attack indisriminately either.[/quote']

I should clarify my remarks as well

I don't believe missle strikes are the way to go, because missles blow stuff up and leave tons of shrapnel and destruction behind

If we in conjunction with the Pakistani's drop in a joint Navy Seals/Army Ranger team that goes in and kidnaps these leaders (see how we got Ramzi Yousef back in the mid 1990s) that is far more effective

Fewer people die. Fewer buildings are blown up. We get the bad guy, and there are less engraged angry pahtans down in Karachi, strapping on suicide vests and walking into the Marriot

[PeterMP]

People that think this works/is a good idea, need to read about Vietnam, especially parts dealing with Cambodia.

[Midnight Judges]

The assumption I will base it on is we probably killed a bunch of pahtans.

The problem is, pahtans have no clue why missles are coming in and blowing stuff up around them

We are literally talking about the most uneducated and ignorant people on earth. So whatever intel we get from them, well who the hell knows if its any good, because these incredibly simply people have no idea what is going on

What they do know is this. 28 of their people got killed. To them these people weren't "bad" because they were one of them

The pahtans also know that it was either the government of Pakistan or the Amrikans who did this. Probably the Amrikans.

They'll then harbor and support anyone who will get revenge against the Amrikans. And the cycle will begin again, as a suicide bomb goes off somewhere this month in Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore, Multan, Quetta or Peshewar.

If their philosophy is to hate whoever attacks them then they will be equally if not more ticked off about the misguided retaliatory suicide bomb. Not to mention killing active terrorist scum like this prevents future attacks anyway.

Besides, officials say we got our guy. He wasn't some native farmer, he was living a high profile life launching ied attacks in Afghanistan. The people there know who he is and who he is against. He brought this upon them.

[Midnight Judges]

People that think this works/is a good idea, need to read about Vietnam, especially parts dealing with Cambodia.

What is the alternative? Let them blow people up in Afghanistan and then have a home base in Pakistan even if we know where they are and where the bombs are coming from?

Just saw that whether or not our target was in the wreckage is not confirmed.

[SkinsHokieFan]

If their philosophy is to hate whoever attacks them then they will be equally if not more ticked off about the misguided retaliatory suicide bomb. Not to mention killing active terrorist scum like this prevents future attacks anyway.

Besides, officials say we got our guy. He wasn't some native farmer, he was living a high profile life launching ied attacks in Afghanistan. The people there know who he is and who he is against. He brought this upon them.

The retalitory suicide bomb isn't going to kill the Pahtans in the NWFP

Most likely it'll wipe out some secular mahajars, punjabi's and sunni's in Karachi this month

Is the side effect a more angry Pakistani populace at the extremists in the NWFP? To a minor extent

But Pakistani people are very paraniod, to an extreme, fall for conspiracy theories easily, and will blame India first, then America, then the PPP gov't (although they still have about 6 months left in the honeymoon) and then the extremeists.

[SkinsHokieFan]

What is the alternative? Let them blow people up in Afghanistan and then have a home base in Pakistan even if we know where they are and where the bombs are coming from?

Just saw that whether or not our target was in the wreckage is not confirmed.

To be honest, the alternatives are pretty bleak. But firing missles at an uneducated and ignorant population is a major risk

There are clearly bad guys we gotta kidnap and kill. Missles that cause this kind of damage are not the way to do it.

If we gotta get someone, work the with the Pakistani army (who are mostly Punjabi's so they could be trusted in this regard) and come in with a seal team and capture the guy.

Don't give the pahtans any shrapnel to get angry about

[Dance04]

What do you base that assumption on?

HH,

Note: I may be talking out of my ass, but what the odds of a 100% fatality, only to insurgents? Seeing as how these missile strikes are never as accurate on the ground as claimed, it stands to reason that some innocent civilians most likely lost they lives. The article however fails to give enough detail. But, what the article does say, is that a village was targeted, not a military operation. So, if in fact some taliban were killed, if they are in a village, that should mean they are hiding amongst civilians, and by extension, brought civilians into the line of fire. One more thing, the article does not mention how many injured. With 2 missiles landing, there are gonna be people who get injured, one way or another.

But hey, like I said, I could be 100% wrong.

[Midnight Judges]

To be honest, the alternatives are pretty bleak. But firing missles at an uneducated and ignorant population is a major risk

There are clearly bad guys we gotta kidnap and kill. Missles that cause this kind of damage are not the way to do it.

If we gotta get someone, work the with the Pakistani army (who are mostly Punjabi's so they could be trusted in this regard) and come in with a seal team and capture the guy.

Don't give the pahtans any shrapnel to get angry about

I suspect that the cooperation between our leadership and Pakistan's miliitary leadership could be better. But seeing as how they have orders to fire on our troops inside their borders I don't see how we can put our guys in that situation.