WP:A Gunner & a Target;Campbell Is Well Aware of Pressure That Comes as Skins' QB

[IbleedBnG83]

He needs to perform. If he isn't performing after a few games, then it might be time to pull him, but if he is doing well, you stick with him, but he hasn't earned a stranglehold on the job. He certainly hasn't earned an entire year of playing time regardless of how he plays.

Based on this reasoning, then most QB's should be pulled long before they are truly successful.

[SoCalSkins]

Based on this reasoning, then most QB's should be pulled long before they are truly successful.

For a 4th year QB, the excuses are over. It is time to perform.

[rdskn4eva]

For a 4th year QB, the excuses are over. It is time to perform.

No one is complaining SoCal but here are the FACTS

1. This is his 3rd Offense in 4 years

2. Yes he is a 4th year QB, but he has only had one full year as a starter under his belt. Sitting on the bench watching and actually playing games are two totally diffrent things.

Like I said, give this guy a real chance to learn this Offense and he will be a great one.

[SoCalSkins]

No one is complaining SoCal but here are the FACTS

1. This is his 3rd Offense in 4 years

2. Yes he is a 4th year QB, but he has only had one full year as a starter under his belt. Sitting on the bench watching and actually playing games are two totally diffrent things.

Like I said, give this guy a real chance to learn this Offense and he will be a great one.

Todd Collins had fewer NFL starts than Jason when he took over last year. In fact Collins had zero starts under Saunders.

How come the guy with less starting experience beat teams the guy with more experience couldn't? Collins has more wins against the division and against teams that finished above .500 in 3 weeks as the Skins starter than Jason has had in his entire career.

[AHerald]

"I won't ever talk about myself and say what I can do.

Riiiight

I'm just going to go out and have a Pro Bowl-type season and let everything ride."

[TSO]

His W/L record in his 6 games prior to the Chicago game was 1-5. That is also his career record against the division. He beat no teams last year that ended up above .500.

Worst. Show of statistics to prove a point. Ever.

Ok, let's talk about the teams above .500 we lost too:

Green Bay:

Jason played well in this game, however, this game was more about defense than anything. Santana Moss' fumble that was returned for a TD sealed the deal, and nothing Jason Campbell did was at fault here.

Giants:

Jason played very well in this game and was the biggest reason why, along with the fumble caused by Carter we recovered, we were up by 17 at the half. Conservative play calling was mainly at fault here as with many games, and the ball was taken out of the hands of Jason in the second half as the Giants found ways to exploit our defense. Once we were put in a position where we had to score quickly to tie it up and go into overtime, Jason lead us down the field to the 2 friggin yard line. We then proceeded to blow it through our running game.

Patriots:

Everyone, including Jason, laid an egg here. This is, perhaps, the only game your ridiculous stats mean anything. Let's not forget the Oline play here was the worst I've ever seen under Gibbs.

Eagles:

I know they were not above .500, however, they were a .500 team that everyone around the NFL respects... especially on defense which is proof Jason has already proven he's a good QB. Remember, the Eagles D was the first one to show the football world that the Patriots were human. Jason played very well against them on Monday Night, and played amazingly well in the second game. This game was a lot like the first Giants game, where a change in play calling philosophy after the first half and a poor performance by our defense in the second half lost us this game. Jason was one of the the only bright spots here, once again, making you're silly stats look as silly as they are.

Cowboys:

Everyone knows how well Jason played in this game. He was, simply put, on fire. We haven't seen that kind of QB play in a very very long time here in Washington. The stats you love to point out everywhere you go on this board can't talk. If they could, they'd say "stop using me like this, I'm not telling the story here at all... our defense allowed Terrel Owens a career day where he scored 4 TDs in almost ONE QUARTER". Jason, once again, was the only reason why we stayed in this game. We should've been blown out, but no, we had a chance to win it. Yes, he threw an ill-advised pick, and it was a bad play on his part that was totally his fault... but you can't put aside everything else we did to lose the game and you can't put aside just how well HE DID EVERYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME.

Bucs:

See Cowboys above. Do I need to copy and paste? Just change the Terrel Owens part to costly turnovers. Jason played lights out and, once again, kept us in this game.

There you have it. This isn't the first time someone did this work for you to point out just how wrong you are. Sadly, you're blinded by your hatred for a player on the team you claim to love who does everything asked of him and puts his body on the line every play just so fans like you can cheer for your team. Show him some of the gratitude he deserves, and stop disrespecting the man. You should be proud of players like him.

[rdskn4eva]

Todd Collins had fewer NFL starts than Jason when he took over last year. In fact Collins had zero starts under Saunders.

How come the guy with less starting experience beat teams the guy with more experience couldn't? Collins has more wins against the division and against teams that finished above .500 in 3 weeks as the Skins starter than Jason has had in his entire career.

Because Collins had been in Saunders system for like 10 years and knew it inside and out. Jason did not. Collins was practiclly Al Saunders Avatar on the field of play he knew the Offense so well.

[SoCalSkins]

Worst. Show of statistics to prove a point. Ever.

Ok, let's talk about the teams above .500 we lost too:

Giants:

Cowboys:

Strange how we beat both those teams with a different QB.

Because Collins had been in Saunders system for like 10 years and knew it inside and out. Jason did not. Collins was practiclly Al Saunders Avatar on the field of play he knew the Offense so well.

But your previous post stated that sitting on the bench doesn't count, only actual game play does. So which is it? Or is it that you want it both ways with JC?

[wwSEANd]

He was 1-5 prior to the Bears game.

no, he was 5-7. he was 1-5 in the 6 games prior to the Bears game, but what makes those games more significant than the 6 games prior to those, where he went 4-2? nothing. it just helps your argument. people with sound arguments don't need to manipulate statistics like that. if i used your method, i could say, "todd collins sucks! look at his playoff game! TWO pick 6s! and they lost!" but todd collins doesn't suck, as evidenced by all the data available, rather than what data i choose to present as relevant.

Campbell was 5-7 before the bears game, and was playing a great game (as said before, 100+ yds, no ints) before he got hurt. no, that's not a great season, but it showed improvement over his play in the previous year.

So for him to claim that this is his team no matter what and that as long as his numbers are good a L doesn't matter is not what you want to hear from a starting QB.

it's a good thing, then, that he didn't claim that! all he says is that the TEAM wins or loses, whether he plays well or not. he doesn't ask to be personally credited for wins, or to be absolved of blame for losses. all he says is that he is not automatically to blame for every loss... WHICH IS TRUE! i also don't think it is him whining, either; it just shows that he is confident in his abilities, even if the W-L record isn't favorable.

and, you know what? confidence is a good thing for a QB to have. it's the one position where i'd say having competition for a starting spot is a bad thing. you don't want job security on your QB's mind when he has to make the important decisions. that's just a personal opinion, but it seems that Zorn is of the same opinion.

on a related note, though, even someone who thinks that Collins was better than Campbell last year must acknowledge one possibility: that Collins may not be as good in Zorn's WCO as he was in Saunders' offense. i REALLY hope that he's every bit as good as he was last year (which was very good!) but his performance in camp, the scrimmage, and the HOF game have not been encouraging.

if we were still using Saunders' system, there would be a legitimate argument that Collins should start over Campbell. as it stands, however, Campbell is unquestionably our best quarterback... hell, Colt could be our #2 by the regular season if Collins doesn't shape up, and that would be bad on many levels.

[pokerhog]

I really didn't want to join the fray here... I think alot has been said already in JC's defense that has been wholly appropriate. For that matter, as misguided as SoCal seems to be, I can see his point that the team was more successful with Collins at the end of last year than it was immediately preceeding with JC.

Truth is, I just really feel bad for Campbell, and I wouldn't be suprised to see him leave in two years when his contract is up. As a talented and up-and-coming player playing the leagues toughest position, he has been completely mismanaged and the fans seem only to look at his negatives... I have never understood the weird double standard. Colt Brennan looked pretty good for a rookie playing his first preseason game, and that is a very good thing, but I have seen people saying we should trade JC. That thinking couldn't be more idiotic! JC needs to be able to develop in an offensive system....ANY offensive system... with some level of stability. He's had seven different offensive philosophies in the last eight years?!?!?! That is ridiculous!! Give him a little stability and I think he will be a very good to great QB. What am I basing that opinion on? I'm not really sure....Gibbs clearly saw something in him coming out of college and I value that. He does seem to be progressing the more reps he gets. Zorn seems to believe in him. And maybe most importantly, he is the starting QB on my favorite team...and therefore gets my full support!

And as a side note to SoCal.... Todd Collins didn't take the team to the playoffs, the team as a whole took the team to the playoffs. Campbell didn't go 1-5, the entire team went 1-5! If you can't understand that this is a team sport, I don't know what to tell you....go watch Tennis!

[gortiz]

I love it ... our boy is full of piss and vinegar.

JC is coming out strong this year. His numbers are not going to exaclty reflect it, but he is going to win games by himself this year and push us into the post season.

[gortiz]

But your previous post stated that sitting on the bench doesn't count, only actual game play does. So which is it? Or is it that you want it both ways with JC?

You are being a child SoCal and wasting our time. I'm sure you know the the diffrence between the two situations and y0our statement was a weak attempt at humor.

[DCMONEY]

He is very whiny in the article. He was 1-5 before he hurt his knee. He also glosses over the fact that the team won every game the rest of the regular season and won against teams he lost to earlier in the year after he went down. He looked good in his few attempts last week and needs to do it when it counts.

More importantly, he needs to lead the team to W's period. The team proved they can win without him, so he needs to lead them to W's. Doubling his career wins against the division in the opener would be a good start.

The team also needs to commit and stay the course. Stop changing systems and personnel. I was finally satisfied that they were gonna keep the same basic personnel and then they fire the coaching staff. So I find it funny that people aren't taking into account that Jason and this team have to get familiar with the new offense. Also Zorn is new at head coaching. If Jason was still playing in Al Saunders system I'd definitely say that we should see some strides this seaoson but how can you progress significantly if they keep changing. I couldn't imagine getting better at my job if they had constant changing. Lets not forget about injuries to the o-line and also his team mates can't let him down as they did in the Green Bay game. Like Jason said "This is a team". Funny how Gibbs never saw Brunnell as the problem but everyone sees Jason as the problem. Gibbs changed the offense and all the time he just needed to change his QB he was scared to throw up field.

[BnG4ever326]

Just a reminder to the impatient ones. Jason Campbell has started ONLY TWENTY GAMES in the NFL. TWENTY. That's only a full season and a quarter. If you want to be THIS critical of his game in the NFL, you may want to wait until he has at LEAST 32 games under his belt. Eli Manning has had four FULL SEASONS playing in the NFL before his chance came up to get a SB ring.

Doesn't JC deserves the same kind time on the job before some of you malcontents start hollering for Colt Brennan?

[Fred Jones]

I am just going to sit back and watch this season.

I really hope JC stays healthy so he can play in all 16 games. He won't be replaced by TC or Colt despite what the many fans on this site proclaim.

My expectations are high for JC this season. Typically, with any new offense and new coaching staff, the offense will start slow and steadily get better as the season progresses.

So, I am going to be patient and root for my team.

[BnG4ever326]

Worst. Show of statistics to prove a point. Ever.

Ok, let's talk about the teams above .500 we lost too:

Green Bay:

Jason played well in this game, however, this game was more about defense than anything. Santana Moss' fumble that was returned for a TD sealed the deal, and nothing Jason Campbell did was at fault here.

Giants:

Jason played very well in this game and was the biggest reason why, along with the fumble caused by Carter we recovered, we were up by 17 at the half. Conservative play calling was mainly at fault here as with many games, and the ball was taken out of the hands of Jason in the second half as the Giants found ways to exploit our defense. Once we were put in a position where we had to score quickly to tie it up and go into overtime, Jason lead us down the field to the 2 friggin yard line. We then proceeded to blow it through our running game.

Patriots:

Everyone, including Jason, laid an egg here. This is, perhaps, the only game your ridiculous stats mean anything. Let's not forget the Oline play here was the worst I've ever seen under Gibbs.

Eagles:

I know they were not above .500, however, they were a .500 team that everyone around the NFL respects... especially on defense which is proof Jason has already proven he's a good QB. Remember, the Eagles D was the first one to show the football world that the Patriots were human. Jason played very well against them on Monday Night, and played amazingly well in the second game. This game was a lot like the first Giants game, where a change in play calling philosophy after the first half and a poor performance by our defense in the second half lost us this game. Jason was one of the the only bright spots here, once again, making you're silly stats look as silly as they are.

Cowboys:

Everyone knows how well Jason played in this game. He was, simply put, on fire. We haven't seen that kind of QB play in a very very long time here in Washington. The stats you love to point out everywhere you go on this board can't talk. If they could, they'd say "stop using me like this, I'm not telling the story here at all... our defense allowed Terrel Owens a career day where he scored 4 TDs in almost ONE QUARTER". Jason, once again, was the only reason why we stayed in this game. We should've been blown out, but no, we had a chance to win it. Yes, he threw an ill-advised pick, and it was a bad play on his part that was totally his fault... but you can't put aside everything else we did to lose the game and you can't put aside just how well HE DID EVERYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME.

Bucs:

See Cowboys above. Do I need to copy and paste? Just change the Terrel Owens part to costly turnovers. Jason played lights out and, once again, kept us in this game.

There you have it. This isn't the first time someone did this work for you to point out just how wrong you are. Sadly, you're blinded by your hatred for a player on the team you claim to love who does everything asked of him and puts his body on the line every play just so fans like you can cheer for your team. Show him some of the gratitude he deserves, and stop disrespecting the man. You should be proud of players like him.

Plain and simple. NO PATIENCE WHATSOEVER!! Some of these people around here think that a QB should come straight out of college, win 10 or 11 games in his very first season, then win the next FOUR Super Bowls. Then they want to trade him for 4 number ones AND LaDainian Tomlinson. Go Figure.

[herb mul-key]

I like JC and I am totally sick of hearing about the Brennan kid

[ucfSKINS]

JC will go to the pro bowl this year...mark my words.

I honestly feel the same way. But more of a alternative, not a starter. It all hinges on a few things:

1. Injuries: if the line goes down like last season, be prepared for the worst. Also, we need our WR's to stay healthy as well.

2. His continued development in the WCO. If he keeps progressing, we should be fine and he'll have a monster year.

3. The Defense: If our D can shut the other offense down and keep themselves rested, it means more time for our offense to blow up the scoreboard.

4. The RB's: We need Portis to be healthy and put up the same numbers he has the past four years (not counting his injury plagued '06 season). The more we get out of him, the less pressure is on JC, allowing him to thrive.

[nace14]

who are the idiots calling for collins over campbell? are you kidding me? if you think that collins has what it takes to be an nfl starting qb, then look at the seatle playoff game.

there is a huge difference between an every day starter and a guy who did a good job filling in for an injured starter.

that's ridiculous.

if you would rather have collins start over campbell, please pm me your address so i can come over there and beat some sense into you.

oh and if you want to start colt over both campbell and collins, please leave your address to everyone on this board so we can all come over and beat some sense into you.

[Oldfan]

Look, I'm willing to give Jason this season and next to become a lot better. It seems like you arent.

Your post didn't address me, but...

No, this is his bubble year for me. Jason improves or we look elsewhere. To put this into perspective, Jason needs to win three of the first five games this year to equal Ramsey's won-lost record before Joe gave up on him in favor of Brunell.

Unlike Ramsey, Jason has been protected very well. Still, their stats aren't much different.

Having said that, I think the chances are good that he will pick up his game this year. I base that not on the HOF stats, but on the difference in his mechanics. He looked like a better QB to me in that game.

[rdskn4eva]

Strange how we beat both those teams with a different QB.

But your previous post stated that sitting on the bench doesn't count, only actual game play does. So which is it? Or is it that you want it both ways with JC?

Yeah but sitting on the bench for one year trying to absorb an offense vs sitting on the bench for 10 years are two TOTALLY diffrent things.

[PeterMP]

Took Peyton, what 6 or 7 years to win a playoff game?

Try 4.

[tenken627]

Ugh, no Todd Collins please.

Collins was a product of being in Al Saunders' system for TEN years. If anyone has been doing the same thing for TEN years, you expect them to do well doing it.

In a non-Saunders' system, you do not know what you have in Collins. And after doing one thing for so long, it is so hard to break out of it.

[zCommander]

Yet its perfectly okay for someone to call Colt Brennan the future of the franchise after a quarters worth of play against 3rd/4th stringers?

No fingers pointed at you, I'm just trying to see if logic applies to this board.

CB playing with 3rd/4th stringers on his side as well. If the QB can't get the ball to his receivers then yes replace him. I am not seeing how this can be called illogical.

[eljeasel]

Your post didn't address me, but...

No, this is his bubble year for me. Jason improves or we look elsewhere. To put this into perspective, Jason needs to win three of the first five games this year to equal Ramsey's won-lost record before Joe gave up on him in favor of Brunell.

Unlike Ramsey, Jason has been protected very well. Still, their stats aren't much different.

Having said that, I think the chances are good that he will pick up his game this year. I base that not on the HOF stats, but on the difference in his mechanics. He looked like a better QB to me in that game.

I think I agree with you for the most part here. This should be when we find out what Jason is made of. 2nd year of going into the game. Ive always heard the "you dont see what a QB is made of till they have 30 starts" addage and that kind of makes sense to me. 2/3 of the way through the season I guess we should know what we have. Personally, I say give him the whole season, especially if we are still in the playoff hunt or we/he is looking good. But hey, I might be a little more patient than others.

I never understand when people bring Ramsey into the discussion. What does Ramsey's win/loss record have to do with the development of Jason Campbell? 2 Different teams at 2 different times. Ramsey got pulled many times in his career and might be at the end of his career or he might be one play away from becoming Todd Collins of Denver.

What does this have to do with the QB situation of the Washington Redskins?

And Im still not sold on statistical arguments, but again, thats just me.