BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 A Nazi swastika is only a legitimate symbol of 'white pride' if 'white pride' means that everyone else is inferior. The Nazi swastika is a hate symbol and is used to intimidate others. you cant tell someone how they can express themselves just because you believe it to mean something else. see confederate flag debates that go on here all the time. and white pride is different then white power. i am white pride but not white power meaning that i am proud to be white, i am proud of my race but i do not feel like my race is more powerful or better then any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 you cant tell someone how they can express themselves just because you believe it to mean something else.see confederate flag debates that go on here all the time. In Canada and many other countries you can if it is determined to be hate speech. Because of the history of the Nazism party the use of their symbols is controlled by law in many European countries. Are you suggesting the Nazi swastika leaves anything for doubt about meaning? We are not talking about ancient use of the symbol by Buddhists or Hindus. The Nazi swastika is about Aryan supremacy, not 'white pride'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 In Canada and many other countries you can if it is determined to be hate speech.Because of the history of the Nazism party the use of their symbols is controlled by law in many European countries. Are you suggesting the Nazi swastika leaves anything for doubt about meaning? We are not talking about ancient use of the symbol by Buddhists or Hindus. The Nazi swastika is about Aryan supremacy, not 'white pride'. what I am suggesting is that you are trying to force what you believe something to mean on to what they may believe. You cant decide for her what she thinks. But since neither one of us truly knows what it meant to her we will have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 But since neither one of us truly knows what it meant to her we will have to agree to disagree. I guess that means that you think someone wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Che Guevara could be doing it 'cause it looks cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I guess that means that you think someone wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Che Guevara could be doing it 'cause it looks cool. and you can thank Audioslave for that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Actually, hate speech is illegal in Canada. Damn. Then I definitely better make it a point to NEVER go to Canada. I'd never make it out of the country without being arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 and you can thank Audioslave for that one.. Che pictures long pre-dated them. I picked up a Che t-shirt as a kid on vacation in Spain in the 70s. BTW I was also really into WW II military history as a teen and had a number of posters including this one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 what I am suggesting is that you are trying to force what you believe something to mean on to what they may believe. You cant decide for her what she thinks.But since neither one of us truly knows what it meant to her we will have to agree to disagree. Here I disagree. I don't think there is a lot of gray about what she believes. Anyone who embrases that symbolism and defiantly proclaims its her "politics" and used a number of the other code words she did... is fairly easily understood. I don't think it is right that her children were taken away, but it might be good that they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika Although this woman apparently has some race issues, the swastika is not exclusively a nazi symbol. It's not even close to being exclusive to Nazi Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SwastikaAlthough this woman apparently has some race issues, the swastika is not exclusively a nazi symbol. It's not even close to being exclusive to Nazi Germany. That's true. But let's be honest about it and call a spade a spade. In this case, the swaztika is a Nazi symbol. Combine it with her talk about white supremacy and having Nazi flags and I don't think she is a disciple of Eastern philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Here I disagree. I don't think there is a lot of gray about what she believes. Anyone who embrases that symbolism and defiantly proclaims its her "politics" and used a number of the other code words she did... is fairly easily understood.I don't think it is right that her children were taken away, but it might be good that they were. Once again I respectfully disagree here. Are you one of those people who believe that the confederate flag represents racism? because I am not. And I bet you if I met and black man off this site at a bar we would have a good ol time and I would have no issues with it. just because your interpretation of something is one thing, even if most of society believes it to be true, you cant pin it on her unless she tells you straight from her mouth that is what she thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Raising your child to be a bigot is not a crime and is no justification whatsoever for having your child taken away. That's just garbage. You can't legislate common sense or good taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yes, this woman could be guilty under Canadian law. BTW not all hate speech is illegal. I'll let you guess who gets immunity. Canadians who hate Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Once again I respectfully disagree here. just because your interpretation of something is one thing, even if most of society believes it to be true, you cant pin it on her unless she tells you straight from her mouth that is what she thinks. The mother, who considers herself a white nationalist, where they found neo-Nazi symbols and flags, In court documents, social workers say they're worried the parents' conduct and associations might harm the emotional well-being of the children and put them at risk. she proudly wears a silver necklace that includes a swastika and has "white pride" flags in her home, "A black person has a right to say black power or black pride and yet they're turning around on us and saying we're racists and bigots and neo-Nazis because we say white pride. It's hypocrisy at its finest." "I'm willing to jump through their hoops," she said. "If they want me to deny my beliefs, I'll tell them that, but at the same time, I'm not a traitor to my politics, my beliefs. If you cobble all of these puzzle pieces together it paints a rather specific picture. This isn't someone who has a Confederate flag. This is a person who lives a specific lifestyle and says these symbols are part of her philosophy and politics. She argues that these represents her deepest, core beliefs and she will lie about them if asked, but never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Canadians who hate Americans? That's not it. Although if the American's being hated are gay and the Canadians are making comments about them based on their religious beliefs, then they would be immune under Canadian law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Once again I respectfully disagree here. Then again, as I said, I am particularly sensitive to this particular imagery and symbolism. It's possible that I may sometimes jump at shadows. I don't think so in this case. I think that she isn't filled with White-Love, but hate of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If you cobble all of these puzzle pieces together it paints a rather specific picture. This isn't someone who has a Confederate flag. This is a person who lives a specific lifestyle and says these symbols are part of her philosophy and politics. She argues that these represents her deepest, core beliefs and she will lie about them if asked, but never change. what part of China's quote that you used paints her as being white power? it just sounds like she is proud to be white and wants to display it. she plainly states that black people have the right to say what they want and she just wants that too. she very well may be a racist (it sounds like it), but from what you quoted I just see her trying to express herself and say she has the right to be white pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Then again, as I said, I am particularly sensitive to this particular imagery and symbolism. It's possible that I may sometimes jump at shadows. I don't think so in this case. I think that she isn't filled with White-Love, but hate of others. :laugh: white love....awesome!! and thats why I said respectfully. I agree with you that she is probably a hateful ***** but unless she is specifically saying that I think she is just over the top with her expressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 she very well may be a racist (it sounds like it), but from what you quoted I just see her trying to express herself and say she has the right to be white pride. I could be wrong, but if you wanted to express your pride in your culture, you wouldn't choose Nazi symbolism. There are many ways to represent your love of culture and people... the people who gravitate towards Nazi symbolism do so very often for other reasons than self-love. They choose it because of the history tied to that movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I could be wrong, but if you wanted to express your pride in your culture, you wouldn't choose Nazi symbolism. There are many ways to represent your love of culture and people... the people who gravitate towards Nazi symbolism do so very often for other reasons than self-love. They choose it because of the history tied to that movement. very true indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The woman is a doofus but she shouldn't have her kids taken away. That wouldn't happen in the US, where the right to be wrong is pretty close to sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 There are many ways to represent your love of culture and people... the people who gravitate towards Nazi symbolism do so very often for other reasons than self-love. They choose it because of the history tied to that movement. Does that mean Europeans (especially the British, French, Italians, and Germans) shouldn't be allowed to wear a white shirt with a red or black cross across the length and width of it (the CRUSADER emblems)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Why do white pride movements always associate themselves with hate? I have been in many "hispanic" pride events and have very very very rarely run into that type of crap. They don't care about mixed couples or any of that purity crap. ... hell it's usually an excuse to dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 what part of China's quote that you used paints her as being white power?it just sounds like she is proud to be white and wants to display it. she plainly states that black people have the right to say what they want and she just wants that too. She's merely showing pride in her Anglo-Saxon heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 She's merely showing pride in her Anglo-Saxon heritage. And specifically that part of Anglo-Saxon heritage related to genocide of non-Aryans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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