My Personal Opinion - Mike Sellers to be Phased Out (M.E.T.)

[Hubbs]

Mike had a stretch of a few games last year when he tried to finesse his way into the open field instead of powering through a would-be tackler. Assuming he gets back to his normal, bulldozing self, he's still a fantastic short yardage guy and change-of-pace option a few times a game. I get the feeling Zorn will try to spread out the carries more than Gibbs did in order to keep Portis fresh and ready to make big plays, so I'm sure Sellers will see a couple carries a game.

[NoVaSkins21]

Fred Davis may eventually be Sellers' heir apparent, but I don't think Coach Zorn is going to take Sellers out of the offense. Sellers is too good of a weapon not to be utilized in Zorn's offense. Sellers may be getting up there in years, but his still has a ton of effectiveness. That one play from the Lions' game last year is all you need to know about how good Sellers can be.

[zoony]

And I'm wondering how a guy who came to us as a free agent from Canada, and makes the kind of money that he makes... could possibly be viewed as "over-rated"

...

[Playsmart30]

thats a big reach. I'm just saying that if the rookies don't come along as fast as we'd like, then we'll see a starting lineup similar to the one we had last year. Then we have the option of

- going 3 WR with Kelly

- going 3 WR with Thomas

- going 2TE with Davis

- going a FB with Sellers

- going 4 WR with Kelly and Thomas

It makes for a nice set of options for us, but I don't see us going 3 WRs out of the bat. I see us starting with the same starting lineup as last year.

ARE is not a number 2 WR. Why would we still put two small WR in starting line up this year too. That why we drafted Thomas and Kelly to get bigger. I love ARE but he will product more in the slot. I say the best way Rookie will learn to let them play early

[Morneblade]

Lineup will not be Moss, ARE, Cooley, CP and Sellers..... Jim Zorn already say he will use ARE in the Slot. I believe Kelly or Thomas will be starting at number 2 WR. ARE is best in the slot anyways. first fews preseason games you will see Moss and ARE starting but last two you will see Thomas or Kelly stepping up

Wrong.

Thomas and Kelly will start the year on the bench, neither are running routes well enought to start over Thrash at this point, let alone ARE. Kelly has a chance to the 4th receiver on opening day and maybe 3rd by seasons end. But neither Kelly or Thomas will be starting unless we have a rash of injuries at the WR position.

[Thinking Skins]

ARE is not a number 2 WR. Why would we still put two small WR in starting line up this year too. That why we drafted Thomas and Kelly to get bigger. I love ARE but he will product more in the slot. I say the best way Rookie will learn to let them play early

ARE may not be a 'number 2' but he's produced more than our rookies already have. He's been JC's most consistent WR so far. So I'm not ready to religate the guy to the bench just because he doesn't have the measureables that our rookies do have.

By the end of the year, or even midseason maybe, I can see them replacing him or Moss and getting into the starting lineup. But I don't want to say that we're going to start the season without ARE in the starting lineup.

[tml6157]

I think some people on here want to rush our rookie WRs, and even though it would be nice to have them produce right away, they aren't Randy Moss and will not put up numbers like his rookie year. Starting them in game one would cripple our chances of winning.

[Fifty Gut]

Unsure roll? Have you never heard of Mack Strong in Seattle?

[Meatsnack]

The Caveman is one of my favorite players, too. Understand, though, that the man has low skills and freakish athletic ability. This and the concomitant arrogance of being a guy 6’3” and 285 with 4.5 speed are what got him thinking he couldn’t have a drug problem and didn’t have to listen to coaches/develop his technique. This was rewarded, rather predictably when you’re not a superhuman, with a plane ticket to Canada.

Give Mike an assignment like, outrun that guy and blow up the next guy and he’s your commando. Giving him a technique-dependent one like, “pass block if the Sam reads hot or chip and go sit in the flat if he stays back” will lead nowhere good. Mike is still, oddly, learning the game.

[Oldskool]

ARE is not a number 2 WR. Why would we still put two small WR in starting line up this year too. That why we drafted Thomas and Kelly to get bigger. I love ARE but he will product more in the slot. I say the best way Rookie will learn to let them play early

Apparently you don't understand how the WCO works and how different receiver types have different rolls.

A little light reading for you: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238034&page=1&pp=15

[Oldskool]

Wrong.

Thomas and Kelly will start the year on the bench, neither are running routes well enought to start over Thrash at this point, let alone ARE. Kelly has a chance to the 4th receiver on opening day and maybe 3rd by seasons end. But neither Kelly or Thomas will be starting unless we have a rash of injuries at the WR position.

Thrash is not a Split-End receiver. Thrash is more of a slot or a flanker.

Kelly will be getting quite a bit of time as a rookie when the play calls for 3 WR and no TE.

[elkabong82]

The general consensus seems to be our O will mirror Seattle's. If this is true, Sellers will not be phased out. Mack Strong was very important to Seattle's O, esp. in the run game, so Sellers should be important as well.

[Morneblade]

Thrash is not a Split-End receiver. Thrash is more of a slot or a flanker.

Kelly will be getting quite a bit of time as a rookie when the play calls for 3 WR and no TE.

He's got to run a NFL pattern first. ARE and Moss will start, Thrash will be the slot guy (#3) so we are both on the same page there. I think Kelly will be ready faster than Thomas and will see action earlier, so we also agree on that. So.........why the quote?

[JMUGator19]

I should have put in the poll from the start, but better late than never. At least I hope.

[Oldskool]

He's got to run a NFL pattern first.

Says who? Plenty of rookies start day one. And 3 wide isn't a set WCO formation anyhow. It's an alternative one.

ARE and Moss will start, Thrash will be the slot guy (#3) so we are both on the same page there. I think Kelly will be ready faster than Thomas and will see action earlier, so we also agree on that. So.........why the quote?

Thrash is not a slot receiver. If he was, we wouldn't have drafted one this year.

Kelly and Thomas are both different players playing different positions at WR in the WCO. Thomas won't see much playing time due to Moss, ARE and Thrash ahead of him at slot and flanker. By necessity, Kelly will start due to the fact that the only other player capable of being the split end on the roster right now are Mix ( :laugh: ) or maybe Fred Davis.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Says who? Plenty of rookies start day one. And 3 wide isn't a set WCO formation anyhow. It's an alternative one.

Thrash is not a slot receiver. If he was, we wouldn't have drafted one this year.

Kelly and Thomas are both different players playing different positions at WR in the WCO. Thomas won't see much playing time due to Moss, ARE and Thrash ahead of him at slot and flanker. By necessity, Kelly will start due to the fact that the only other player capable of being the split end on the roster right now are Mix ( :laugh: ) or maybe Fred Davis.

Mix lol :laugh:...

[Thinking Skins]

He's got to run a NFL pattern first. ARE and Moss will start, Thrash will be the slot guy (#3) so we are both on the same page there. I think Kelly will be ready faster than Thomas and will see action earlier, so we also agree on that. So.........why the quote?

my sentiments exactly

[tone_dubbz]

I doubt he'll be phased out. Those times he was pass blocking against the Pats he was at the line of scrimmage lined up as a TE. Plus he had to block Vrabel.

If you're basing this off one game, then you need to pay more attention when watching games.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

And I'm wondering how a guy who came to us as a free agent from Canada, and makes the kind of money that he makes... could possibly be viewed as "over-rated"

...

Because of the rabid man-crushes we all have on our beast of a FB.

Sellers is a huge man, a hard worker, a blue collar guy that has recognized what few other players in the NFL have: He knows that he owes the Redskins.

The Redskins are the only team in the NFL to really give him a shot (save his sort time in Cleveland), and they also gave him a second chance.

I think Zorn will find a way to fit him into the WCO. Mike isn't going to out run anyone but we've seen what happens when its him vs. CBs and Safetys. He's a truck, a load to bring down and he can be very effective on short yardage situations.

[Thinking Skins]

Says who? Plenty of rookies start day one. And 3 wide isn't a set WCO formation anyhow. It's an alternative one.

Rookies may start generally, , but as of right now we have no evidence that Zorn plans to start our rookie WRs. We've heard about the mistakes they're making in practice and the good plays they're making in one-on-one. But they're not running routes correctly yet, so its a bit premature to start calling these guys starters.

Thrash is not a slot receiver. If he was, we wouldn't have drafted one this year.

Who did we draft to play slot? I heard Thomas is learning flanker and Kelly is learning split end.

Kelly and Thomas are both different players playing different positions at WR in the WCO. Thomas won't see much playing time due to Moss, ARE and Thrash ahead of him at slot and flanker. By necessity, Kelly will start due to the fact that the only other player capable of being the split end on the roster right now are Mix ( :laugh: ) or maybe Fred Davis.

ARE played split end his last season in Pitt (he played slot before that, but when Plax left he was moved to split end). I still stand by the fact that the guy has been JC's most consistent WR, so I don't see him losing his job over a rookie who's not tested, and who JC doesn't know he can trust yet. Maybe this all changes in the preseason, but as of right now I'd have to expect that we have Moss learning the Flanker, ARE learning the split end, and Thrash learning the slot (maybe ARE and Thrash could have their roles reversed, but I don't really see Thrash getting more playing time than ARE either).

You use this term 'by necessity', but thats not really true. What ARE showed last year in Saunders's system is that he can go over the middle and make the difficult catch. While Kelly may be better suited for this role, he certainly isn't the only one who can do it. Particularly in the instance of an injury, we'd need somebody to be able to step into that role. And I trust ARE on day 1 a lot more than I trust a rookie.

But I'm not against one of the rookies surprising me with a good training camp and preseason.

[@DCGoldPants]

I think he's too useful.

[ThePreciating]

Crazy talk. You never rely on your fullback to be your pass defense. If Sellers is the difference between a sack or a completion, then the play probably should have been designed better. Responsibility for pass blocking goes line, tight end, then fullback, then tailback. If we're telling Sellers to get a chip on a Strahan or a Kearse, then of COURSE the play is not going to work.

[GURU]

I think some of y'all are crazy. Playing in a WCO might be the best thing that ever happened to Sellers. He gives you a kind of flexibility that most FBs don't.

If he's struggling with his pass blocking (and I think there's some exaggeration, here) you send him out for a pass, instead. That's a difference in philosophy between Gibbs and the WCO school. In the WCO, the tendency is to get more receivers out into routes rather than max protect. If the defense doesn't account for Sellers and sends a blitzer, flip it out to him in the flat and let a DB try and tackle him. We've seen what he can do to DBs. Personnally, I'd love to see more of that.

Sellers is a guy you can do multiple things with without substituting, and that gives the offense a tactical advantage. Situational substitution can often tip off the defense as to what the offense wants to do. But Sellers can line up in the back field. He can line up at TE. He can go in motion. And he can be a legit threat doing all of those things.

Sellers may be getting up there in years, but his body isn't breaking down. He's still a specimen.

Sellers had that tremendous game against Detroit last season, and I expected him to get a larger role in the offense after that, especially as a pass catcher. He didn't and I think it was a major mistake.

If Zorn want to get creative, I could see Sellers' role expanding, not diminishing.

[Thinking Skins]

I think some of y'all are crazy. Playing in a WCO might be the best thing that ever happened to Sellers. He gives you a kind of flexibility that most FBs don't.

If he's struggling with his pass blocking (and I think there's some exaggeration, here) you send him out for a pass, instead. That's a difference in philosophy between Gibbs and the WCO school. In the WCO, the tendency is to get more receivers out into routes rather than max protect. If the defense doesn't account for Sellers and sends a blitzer, flip it out to him in the flat and let a DB try and tackle him. We've seen what he can do to DBs. Personnally, I'd love to see more of that.

Sellers is a guy you can do multiple things with without substituting, and that gives the offense a tactical advantage. Situational substitution can often tip off the defense as to what the offense wants to do. But Sellers can line up in the back field. He can line up at TE. He can go in motion. And he can be a legit threat doing all of those things.

Sellers may be getting up there in years, but his body isn't breaking down. He's still a specimen.

Sellers had that tremendous game against Detroit last season, and I expected him to get a larger role in the offense after that, especially as a pass catcher. He didn't and I think it was a major mistake.

If Zorn want to get creative, I could see Sellers' role expanding, not diminishing.

I agree with that, and thats why I keep saying that its not necessarily a diminishing of Sellers's role, but just that as Davis develops they're going to be competing for playing time (possibly along with Thomas and Kelly). This is assuming that Moss, ARE,Portis and Cooley are locks in our offense.

What our offense has right now is an ability to be dangerous from just about any formation, and that can spell trouble for defenses, particularly early on when nobody knows Zorn's play-calling tendancies.

[GURU]

I agree with that, and thats why I keep saying that its not necessarily a diminishing of Sellers's role, but just that as Davis develops they're going to be competing for playing time (possibly along with Thomas and Kelly). This is assuming that Moss, ARE,Portis and Cooley are locks in our offense.

What our offense has right now is an ability to be dangerous from just about any formation, and that can spell trouble for defenses, particularly early on when nobody knows Zorn's play-calling tendancies.

These are the key words. While Sellers' body hasn't started breaking down, yet, eventually his age will be a factor.

Different personnel packages need to be looked at vs. various defensive personnel and schemes, not just for situations within a particular game.

For instance, Sellers may get more playing time against a Cover-2 type scheme, where you want to pound the ball on the ground, more. But Davis could get more playing time against a 3-4 defense, where two TEs might be more useful to battle the outside linebackers. Against other defenses, you might want to get more speed into the secondary with 3-4 WR sets.

I agree that the added talent on offense ought to offer more flexibility, especially as the younger players get more experience.

But, like I said before, I like the ability to use Sellers in multiple looks without substituting.