WVUforREDSKINS Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243460/ Both the Army and Marine Corps are struggling to increase their numbers WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions. Data released by a congressional committee shows the number of soldiers admitted to the Army with felony records jumped from 249 in 2006 to 511 in 2007. And the number of Marines with felonies rose from 208 to 350. Those numbers represent a fraction of the more than 180,000 recruits brought in by the active duty Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines during fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2007. But they highlight a trend that has raised concerns both within the military and on Capitol Hill. Struggling to find recruits Both the Army and Marine Corps have been struggling to increase their numbers as part of a broader effort to meet the combat needs of a military fighting wars on two fronts. As a result, the number of recruits needing waivers for crimes or other bad conduct has grown in recent years, as well as those needing medical or aptitude waivers. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, who released the data, noted that there may be valid reasons for granting the waivers and giving individuals a second chance. But he added, "Concerns have been raised that the significant increase in the recruitment of persons with criminal records is a result of the strain put on the military by the Iraq war and may be undermining military readiness." The services use a waiver process to let in recruits with felony convictions, and many of the crimes were committed when the service members were juveniles. "Waivers are used judiciously and granted only after a thorough review," Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said. He added that "low unemployment, a protracted war on terror, a decline in propensity to serve," and the growing reluctance of parents, teachers and other adults to recommend young people go into the military, has made recruiting a challenge. According to the Army, 18 percent of the recruits needed conduct waivers in fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2007, compared to 15 percent in the 12-month period ending in Sept. 30, 2006. "We are growing the Army fast and there are some waivers; we know that," said Army Lt. Gen. James D. Thurman, deputy chief of staff for operations. "It hasn't alarmed us yet." He added that "the better part of making soldiers is about leadership. Somebody invested in me, you know. That's the beauty of the United States Army. It's about leadership ... You've got to give people an opportunity to serve." Easing waiver requirements Late last fall, the Pentagon quietly began looking for ways to make it easier for people with minor criminal records to join the military. The goal of that review is to make cumbersome waiver requirements consistent across the services — the Army, Marine Corps, Navy and Air Force — and reduce the number of petty crimes that now trigger the process. According to the data released Monday, a bit more than half of the Army's 511 convictions in 2007 were for various types of thefts, ranging from burglaries to bad checks and stolen cars. Another 130 were for drug offenses. The remainder, however, included two in 2007 for manslaughter, compared to one in 2006; five for sexual crimes (which can include rape, incest or sexual assaults) compared to two in 2006; and three for negligent or vehicular homicide, compared to two in 2006. Two received waivers for terrorist threats including bomb threats in 2007, compared to one in 2006. At least 235 of the Marine Corps' 350 waivers were for various types of thefts in 2007, and another 63 were for assaults or robberies that may also have included use of a weapon. The remainder included one for manslaughter in 2007, compared to none in 2006; four for sex crimes, compared to one in 2006; and five for terror threats, including bomb threats, compared to two in 2006. The total number of sailors who received felony waivers dipped from 48 in 2006 to 42 in 2007. Most were for a variety of thefts or drug and drunk driving convictions. Two in 2007 were for terror or bomb threats compared to three in 2006. There were no Air Force recruits with waivers for felony convictions in 2007. Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that offering waivers for those who are otherwise qualified "is the right thing to do for those Americans who want to answer the call to duty." He said the burden remains on them to prove they should be admitted to the service. Waivers must be approved by an officer who is ranked as a brigadier general or above, and recruits must have written recommendations and endorsements from community leaders showing they would be a good bet for the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Hey,cool... I know one of the two waived for bomb threats :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 But I thought they booted Sarge OUT. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Isn't this what happened in Vietnam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Kind of conflicted on this one. Granted, I may have an overly idealistic view of our military, but I thought that it used to be taken for granted that joining the military was supposed to cure a lot of antisocial tendencies. "Make a Man out of you". Things like that. Now, there have been some posts here saying that maybe that's not happening. That there are, for example, street gangs active within our military. Maybe Basic Training isn't causing recruits to assimilate the way they used to. (Or maybe things were never that way, anyway.) I'm willing to assume that the military knows what they're doing, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Isn't this what happened in Vietnam? Nah,then it was more like 60% scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 I'm willing to assume that the military knows what they're doing, here. Im assuming they want/need to make quota. Come on, letting in rapists and people who have participated in incest?? I don't want these people representing our country over seas. Its a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I'm not against this being that "felon" has lost much of it's meaning because dumbasses and their dumbass elected officials have allowed this formerly serious charge to be applied to much less serious crimes. Now americans are losing thier rights due to felony convictions for things like reckless driving in VA (and if you read what is considered reckless you'll be surprised, failing to signal... yup). You think someone that forgot to signal in the rain while going 10 miles over the limit should be barred from joining the armed forces? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Im assuming they want/need to make quota. Come on, letting in rapists and people who have participated in incest?? I don't want these people representing our country over seas. Its a shame. Perhaps closing the Berkley recruiting office would be wise But seriously there are many sexual crimes,such as downloading a nude pic of your 17yr old girlfriend,that while not proper should not restrict service. We really need specifics to prevent assumptions like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Perhaps closing the Berkley recruiting office would be wise Na leave it there. Its way too funny. But seriously there are many sexual crimes,such as downloading a nude pic of your 17yr old girlfriend,that while not proper should not restrict service.We really need specifics to prevent assumptions like yours. Well rape is rape and incest is incest. Everyone should be aloud to download (and upload:D) pics of their naked girlfriend. So as as the babe thread aproves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 My thing is this, what did the felony include? Alot of times it is a second chance for someone who has nothing going on in their life. It is a chance to get a career and pick their lives up and put it back together. And I have no problems with someone who wants to volunteer to serve their country. No matter what the reason behind it to begin with us. You serve for me now and I will forget about what you did back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Na leave it there. Its way too funny.Well rape is rape and incest is incest. Everyone should be aloud to download (and upload:D) pics of their naked girlfriend. So as as the babe thread aproves. That is why the article should be clearer,you can be listed as a sex offender for a pic of your 17 yr old girlfriend,or voyeurism or many other things besides rape or incest....there are a lot of states with some tough laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 That is why the article should be clearer,you can be listed as a sex offender for a pic of your 17 yr old girlfriend,or voyeurism or many other things besides rape or incest....there are a lot of states with some tough laws Two things. One, I misread where it said "can include rape..." I thought it said including rape, incest:doh: ....That's why I now see why you thought I was making assumptions. Also, I posted the last part of it which I didn't see at first for those who didn't click on the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 nothing to see here, please disperse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The thing I've always wondered about convicted felons is that if voting and the 2nd ammendment are basic fundemental rights of every American does that mean that felons aren't really American's anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The thing I've always wondered about convicted felons is that if voting and the 2nd ammendment is a basic right of every American does that mean that felons aren't really American's anymore? A right means something can't be taken away without due process. Citizens have the right to go wherever they want. That doesn't mean we can't have prisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 A right means something can't be taken away without due process. Citizens have the right to go wherever they want. That doesn't mean we can't have prisons. I'm not saying anything about the actual stripping of said rights, although I think the voting one is wrong. What I'm saying is if every American has those rights, as I hear all the time, and someone is stripped of them do they cease being an American? Because EVERY American can't have those rights if some don't. So either it's not a basic fundamental right of every American or the people who lose those rights cease becoming Americans. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully that makes sense. It's finals week, I have gotten no sleep in the last 36, I'm struggling here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Hopefully that makes sense. It's finals week, I have gotten no sleep in the last 36, I'm struggling here. Then get your tookis off of ExtremeSkins. Study. Or go find some porn, then get some sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Then get your tookis off of ExtremeSkins. Study. Or go find some porn, then get some sleep. LOL. I'm done for the day, just wrapping up now. And I already did the porn thing twice last night/this morning/yesterday/today. It is what it is. But honestly, you don't see where I'm coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 LOL. I'm done for the day, just wrapping up now. And I already did the porn thing twice last night/this morning/yesterday/today. It is what it is.But honestly, you don't see where I'm coming from? Rights can be and are limited,such as by age,conduct,location Just because a teenager can't vote or buy a gun does not change citizenship.. btw on the original topic The Army will not give waivers to recruits convicted of sexually violent offenses, drug trafficking or drug sales, Boyce said. http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/n21458316-usa-army-waivers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I don't know. I think you should make rapists join in. Put 'em on the front lines in the hottest part of the fighting. Just don't give them body armor or a gun. Since rehabilitation is part of our system, I think (depending on the crime) this is a great idea. Teaching them discipline, giving them structure, teaching them how to kill more efficiently... well, scratch that one off, but, it could benefit them and benefit the army. This should be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 What a disgrace...keep taking the riff-raff to fill the ranks. Great idea to give training and weapons to dangerous psychopaths, rapists, and thugs. If I was serving with a clean record this would infuriate me. It's a terrible embarassment to the armed forces. Maybe the fact that it's getting harder and harder to fill enlistment quotas should tell them something. Like most people aren't keen on signing up to get blown to pieces on some god-forsaken patch of sand thousands of miles for home for a bunch of people that don't care and don't want them there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I think it should depend on the felony. Hell possessing the right amount of marijuana can be considered a felony these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Felons? Just fine. Gays? Nope, can't join. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 What a disgrace...keep taking the riff-raff to fill the ranks. Great idea to give training and weapons to dangerous psychopaths, rapists, and thugs. If I was serving with a clean record this would infuriate me. It's a terrible embarassment to the armed forces. Maybe the fact that it's getting harder and harder to fill enlistment quotas should tell them something. Like most people aren't keen on signing up to get blown to pieces on some god-forsaken patch of sand thousands of miles for home for a bunch of people that don't care and don't want them there in the first place. I guess you have ignored my posts ...and after all that effort;) Part of the problem filling quotas is they are increasing quotas in what has been a very robust economy and low unemployment. But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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