Chachie Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 No. I don't believe them. Jesus? Maybe. Mary? Why not. Buddha even. Name a human being who has been here and left and I'll consider it possible. Not remotely likely, but possible. GOD? Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Dunno why these things always seem to degenerate into debates. Its just a question. 99% of the time, no, I don't believe it. Often I don't think the speaker intends to claim that a deity actually spoke words to them. In many cases it seems people ponder and reflect with the assistance of their particular religion's teachings, and attribute the wisdom gained as having come from God. But it doesnt mean an actual conversation took place. Much more rarely, the speaker is claiming to literally have spoken to God and been told right from wrong or a particular course of action to take. This, I believe, is almost completely the realm of charlatans - usually those who want their own opinions or desires to be beyond any possible debate. Sometimes its the land of the fruitcake - the kind of disturbed and/or distracted individual who might poison themselves in an effort to leave their bodily containers behind. I suppose its possible that somebody I've spoken to has actually had that give-and-take conversation with God. I can't be certain that it never happened. All I know for sure is that I've never heard a deep baritone voice in my head say "Go ahead, Jimbo, EAT that last cookie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I would believe that they thought that God spoke to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Wow. So someone who shares your views is 'simply being passionate' about his beliefs. But where you disagree with someone, say, me on race issues, that's unreasonable. Gotcha. Nah, I don't really believe you need to feel better about being white. You're passionate about race relations and I'm passionate about thinking you're full of **** Wow an unsubstantiated hit-and-run on the hog regarding race that isn't/can't be backed up. That's never happened before. Uh... what? Let me revisit the original quotes since you apparently don't understand what I'm saying and are in full-on defensive mode... So you're secure in your faith... but not in your rights as a white man.Got it. :thumbsup: That was a sarcastic jab at your comment that effectively stated that all non-believers who question those of faith are insecure. You're right, ignoring the meat of someone's argument so you can conveniently reduce it to something utterly trivial is a rather low tactic...But I like to fight fire with fire. That was a reference to you essentially disregarding the discussion at hand to label people as insecure. That was a reference to this thread. The only reason I mentioned your infamous stance on races was to provide me with a point of comparison. This is me explaining that the above statement is not related to anything you've said in the race-related threads. Again, I only brought up your stance on the whole race wars thing we have going on ES to make a sarcastic comment that I then used as a launching point for the rest of my posts (all of which were related strictly to this subject). Unless I'm speaking Greek or am being far more unreasonable than I think I am, you may want to take a break from ES debate for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Unless I'm speaking Greek or am being far more unreasonable than I think I am, you may want to take a break from ES debate for a while. Thanks, dad. I'll keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGreenistheBest Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 God spoke to me. He said this thread got lame faster than he expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I spoke to a higher power once. I don't mean I prayed or meditated and got an answer or something like that. I mean I actually sat down and interacted with God or an angel or something. She gave me a ride in fact. It happened a few years ago. It's a pretty heavy story, very long and very personal so I'd rather not share here. I hope that's understandable. But yeah, I'm not a member of any organized religion and I've actually had thoughts of atheism or agnosticism for most of my life but that one experience changed everything for me. I'm still not a big believer in organized religion but ever since then I've known that there is something there. It was just so surreal. Such an unbelievable experience. Anyway, I hope I don't sound crazy or anything. I don't know. I wish I could share but I just can't. And no, I was not under the influence at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballhenry Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Personally, I feel God speaks to all of us through our thoughts and feelings. Every prayer is heard....but I believe that WE control our reality more than any external force. When someone says they spoke with God, I ALWAYS remain open simply because if THEY believe it then why should I negatively impact their experience? Context is important of course, my point is tho I have had profound spiritual experiences that meant something deep to me only to be cast aside when I share them, so naturally I wouldn't want to dismiss someone else's experience. Ultimately, I think God speaks to us most powerfully through our feelings and nature. :2cents: I think I read somewhere once that 'God's gift to you is the sunrise, and your gift to God is to smile'. (its a nice positive metaphor:) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If someone says this metaphorically, fine. But I really don't think God literally speaks to people. If he did someone would have gotten him on tape by now. I wonder if he has a Texas accent. Nah, I bet he sounds like James Earl Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If someone says this metaphorically, fine. But I really don't think God literally speaks to people. If he did someone would have gotten him on tape by now. I wonder if he has a Texas accent. Nah, I bet he sounds like James Earl Jones. Midnight Judges, you have forgotten who you are and so forgotten me. Look inside yourself, MJ, you are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the circle of life. Remember who you are...You are my son. I am your father. Let me look upon you with my own eyes..tell your sister, you were right about me. THIS is CNN! (and yes, if there is a God, there's no doubt he is a deeper-voiced James Earl, Michigan alum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Midnight Judges, you have forgotten who you are and so forgotten me. Look inside yourself, MJ, you are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the circle of life. Remember who you are...You are my son. I am your father. Let me look upon you with my own eyes..tell your sister, you were right about me. THIS is CNN! (and yes, if there is a God, there's no doubt he is a deeper-voiced James Earl, Michigan alum) :laugh: bwahahahahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Show me one time I've ever said that.I don't fly that way. It's not my business to tell people where they're going, be it in this life or the next. But if you can find something to the contrary, I'll be happy to apologize for that too. *EDIT* It would be nice just once to be able to debate someone around here on things that I've actually done or said. Dude, ease up. I was just making a point in general. I wasn't implying you were one of those folks or had ever made comments like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 When I was a relatively new Christian I once went to a meeting at church. A pastor was there also and I said "I've been praying about this and I believe God told me to take us in this direction." Immediately after meeting, the pastor pulled me aside and said "Be careful when you make statements like that. What if someone else believe's God showed them through prayer that we should go in the other direction? Which one did God speak to?":2cents: Awesome response. Well meaning and honest people are often too quick to credit their own ideas to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I believe the religion you are is based on luck. Where you born dictates your upbringing and therefore you're thrown into religion before you know anything at all. And those who change religions, simply decided, ah, I want religion but not this one. I try option B. Dallas Willard, one of the most influential Evangelical Christians alive today, is a professor of Philosophy at the University of Southern California. Here's what he says in response to the idea that a person's status with God is dependent on where they're born. Romans 2:6-10: "God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger."What Paul is clearly saying is that if anyone is worthy of being saved, they will be saved. At that point many Christians get very anxious, saying that absolutely no one is worthy of being saved. The implication of that is that a person can be almost totally good, but miss the message about Jesus, and be sent to hell. What kind of a God would do that? I am not going to stand in the way of anyone whom God wants to save. I am not going to say "he can't save them." I am happy for God to save anyone he wants in any way he can. It is possible for someone who does not know Jesus to be saved. But anyone who is going to be saved is going to be saved by Jesus: "There is no other name given under heaven by which men can be saved." There's enough there for the Agnostic and the Evangelical to take offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 My opinion is that the mind works in mysterious ways and that when someone "prays on it" and then "god speaks to them," it's the exact same process as when someone puts a problem "on the back burner" and then a day later they "have an epiphany" and realize the answer. They're just attributing the help to two different sources. Hmm. I never thought of if that way. It makes sense now though. God must have just spoken to me. Wait... Does that make YOU god? Seriously though, I always wondered what kind of voices people who said that were hearing. That must just be how religious people explain epiphanies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 ...And yes, I absolutely DO believe that people who must knock others to feel better about themselves are weak.Now. Show me where I've done that (without merit, like for false thread titles) in a race thread, and I'll be happy to apologize. How about right here? Is it at all possible to have an intelligent conversation with an atheist? Or a conversation with an intelligent atheist? If so, could someone please point me in the appropriate direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 How about right here? A premise of his religion and most others is that those who don't participate are "missing something", even if he won't state with certainty that we're destined for the lake of fire. I think atheists can agree that we are missing out on something. And that something is a delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If they mean in a literal sense......no. However if they are speaking about signs or situations which direct their choices or decsions than yes. As christians I do believe that God no longer speaks like a voice but rather through direction of life choices and sitatuions. I'll give you an example. a friend of mine is a pastor of a church we used to attend and he and a bunch of others had planned a trip to Africa to help orphanges and help in AIDS relief in some missionary run medical clinics. They were delayed due to the rising violence in the region where over 1000 people had been murdered in less than a month. While waiting for word as to whether it was safe enough to make the trip and husband and wife who are part of the traveling party got ill and were hospitalized. Another woman who was heading up the party had to go in for emergency surgery. And yet another woman who was part of this also had to go in for unexpected emergecy surgery. I made the comment to him just the other day " wow, I guess God didn't want you guys to go right now." I do believe that all that happened, was God's way of telling them not to go. Speaking of a sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 As christians I do believe that God no longer speaks like a voice but rather through direction of life choices and sitatuions. What do you mean by "no longer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Redskins Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I have a question for those who believe in God but question anyone who says they literally "heard God speak": If you believe in God, how can you question the way in which he works? It doesn't seem like you can have it both ways (to believe in God and then call someone who hears him a loon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 People find meaning in different ways. When you find meaning in daily events (aka LIFE) it is so grand and vitalizing that it is natural to think God spoke. So when people say "God spoke to them" that is what is communicated to me. I don't tend to think they are delusional, they just interpret things in slightly different ways. However, I don't think every instance of that usage is really some deep meaning in life sort of event, so I tend to be cautious when people make such grand declarations, sometimes people just want attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Personally, I feel God speaks to all of us through our thoughts and feelings. Every prayer is heard....What about selfish one's like asking for that windfall of cash or a new Lexus? Seriously though, I always wondered what kind of voices people who said that were hearing. That must just be how religious people explain epiphanies.Isn't that what an epiphany is? That's how I became a Christian at 27 years old. I had an epiphany. I didn't hear any voices though. What do you mean by "no longer"?I think he probably means the last time God spoke out loud was in the first century. Such as when Jesus was baptized, the Transfiguration, or the conversion of Paul on the Damascus road.I have a question for those who believe in God but question anyone who says they literally "heard God speak":If you believe in God, how can you question the way in which he works? It doesn't seem like you can have it both ways (to believe in God and then call someone who hears him a loon). That my friend is a very thought provoking question. Especially when the Bible says "nothing is impossible with God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Redskins Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 That my friend is a very thought provoking question. Especially when the Bible says "nothing is impossible with God." And it's probably not limited to the Bible as well. I won't speak for all religions, but I know in Hinduism, God is capable of anything. I would think that applies to most religions, as God is usually a "supreme being." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 "If you talk to God you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic." Greg House, MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Isn't that what an epiphany is? That's how I became a Christian at 27 years old. I had an epiphany. I didn't hear any voices though. I don't think so. Give yourself more credit. I think epiphanies are the product of your own complicated brain. The brain is capable of so much more than we use it for. You might even see that it works in mysterious ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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