On Clemons and steroids.

[Dictator]

No it doesn't list tumor as a synonym for Zit.

synonym from dictionary.com

1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
   
2. A word or an expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another.

Or does this part get glossed over like so many other points?

[daveakl]

Sorry, I find myself a little under staffed....

On McNamee bending over backwards to protect Clemons and Pettite and put himself on the line in giving them advanced information that they would be named in Mitchel Report..

Fact is McNamee could be put in jail as a drug dealer, a fraud, impersonating a doctor, and for purjury.

I think the feds didn't care about McNamee and that's the only reason he's not in jail. I think McNamee likely escaped years in prison for things he's admitted doing by implicating Clemens and Pettite. Not only did he escape from jail, but he's gotten amnesty for future prosecutions.

I don't think he's creditable at all. He's pretty much a self confessed con man. I don't think he cares at all for Pettit or Clemens except so he can continue to trade on their sucess and continue to falsely represent himself as both a doctor of sports medicine and a trainer instrimental in developing these guys fast balls.

lol, so you claim that he escaped years in jail for implicating Clemens and Pettite (and Chuck K.). Then what about the fact that he was telling the truth about Pettite and Chuck K.

Basically you are saying that we should believe him about everything he has said about those two since they admitted it, but not about Clemens because he has not admitted it.

What about the fact that he was working with Clemens in Toronto (which you said was not true)

What about the fact that Pettite said Clemens talked to him in 1999/2000 about HGH and Clemens said he was talking about his wife using it at that time. HOWEVER his wife used it in 2003. Why was he talking about his wife using it 3 years before when she only did it once?

How about Clemens telling congress a number of times he never had a discussion with Mcnamee about HGH, then later retracting that after his wifes HGH use brought up?

[jbooma]

If anyone REALLY wants to see the difference between a zit and an abscess, just go to google images and search "zit" and then search "abscess."

I dont recommend it though. :puke:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

some of you have a lot of time on your hands argueing over a zit and abscess, the one thing I have learned about JMS is he will NEVER change his mind, so what good is debating with him if you show him evidence that points it in your direction he might start talking about how maybe when clemens was getting injected mcnamee hit the wrong ass :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

clemens is guilty and he knows it, heck at least he knows he lied

[Dan T.]

JMS reminds me of Dave Chapell sitting on the jury in R. Kelly's trial.

[Dictator]

I feel that Mcnamee has nothing to gain by lying at this point. His professional career is now in ruins. He's a known fraud. Who's going to hire this fool to do anything short of

Clemens has every reason to try to cover his ass.

[JMS]

I feel that Mcnamee has nothing to gain by lying at this point.

Let's examine that...

• McNamee admitted to buying steroids.
  
• Admitted to selling steroids.
  
• Admitted to injecting them into people.
  
• Admitted to fraud in representing himself as a doctor of sports medicine.
  
• Admitted to lieing to federal investigators.
  

And got amnesty in all of the above crimes, not just for this hearing, but amnesty in all future court proceedings, because he was able to implicate Clemens.

If he is found to be lieing about Clemens, his amnesty is over, and he's likely going to jail for purjury, drug dealing, and fraud. Maybe impersonating a doctor too.

Yeah he has no reason to lie!!!, and no reason to continue to lie. He has every reason to lie!!! Besides that, McNamee hasn't told the truth to anybody who's spoken to him through out this process including the house comittee who met with him yesterday. That statement isn't opinion. That's fact.

McNamee has also lied to everybody he's done business with for the last decade. Fact....

He is the definition of a serial liar.

Yeah he's a credible witness.

[PleaseBlitz]

JMS reminds me of Dave Chapell sitting on the jury in R. Kelly's trial.

http://shizzville.com/chappelle-show-jury-dude

THE ROIDS WERE DIGITAL!

[JMS]

JMS:

You are doing it backwards.

....

Thus one could argue that a ZIT could be called an abscess.

HOWEVER:

Thus one cannot argue that an abscess could be called a zit.

There is a HUGE difference.

:doh: That defies the rules of logic... I can call the zit on your ass an abscess, but I can't call the abscess on your ass a zit?

[Predicto]

I'm sorry JMS. I have read everything you have written in this thread, and I have thought it over again, and I just can't agree with you. In my eyes, everything when put together points to Clemens lying.

[daveakl]

:doh: That defies the rules of logic... I can call the zit on your ass an abscess, but I can't call the abscess on your ass a zit?

Actually, that is how logic works. I'll explain it better:

All zits by defination are considered an abscess HOWEVER not all abscess's are considered zits.

This abscess is not considered a zit by anyone except for you trying to spin it as one.

[daveakl]

also, why do you refuse to address the following:

lol, so you claim that he escaped years in jail for implicating Clemens and Pettite (and Chuck K.). Then what about the fact that he was telling the truth about Pettite and Chuck K.

Basically you are saying that we should believe him about everything he has said about those two since they admitted it, but not about Clemens because he has not admitted it.

What about the fact that he was working with Clemens in Toronto (which you said was not true)

What about the fact that Pettite said Clemens talked to him in 1999/2000 about HGH and Clemens said he was talking about his wife using it at that time. HOWEVER his wife used it in 2003. Why was he talking about his wife using it 3 years before when she only did it once?

How about Clemens telling congress a number of times he never had a discussion with Mcnamee about HGH, then later retracting that after his wifes HGH use brought up?

[JMS]

Actually, that is how logic works. I'll explain it better:

All zits by defination are considered an abscess HOWEVER not all abscess's are considered zits.

Your explaination doesn't fit your Statement.

Your Statement

#1 I can call the zit on your ass an abscess, but I can't call the abscess on your ass a zit?

Isn't proven by

#2 All zits are abscesses but all abscesses aren't zits.

Logically. The first statement is not logical. The second statement doesn't prove the first. We aren't talking about all abscesses, we are talking about Clemen's butt zits.

This abscess is not considered a zit by anyone except for you trying to spin it as one.

Yeah nobody but me and Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/zit

[PleaseBlitz]

:laugh: Qiq.

[JMS]

I'm sorry JMS. I have read everything you have written in this thread, and I have thought it over again, and I just can't agree with you. In my eyes, everything when put together points to Clemens lying.

Ok I'll buy that. I respect your opinion, and will give you the last word, as the ultimate decider on this issue.....

1. Would you say that this evidence proves Clemens is lieing?
   
2. Would you say that any court in the land would convict based on this evidence that Clemens is lieing...
   

You've already said you believe this evidence points to Clemens lieing.

You have the last word.

[mardi gras skin]

JMS reminds me of Dave Chapell sitting on the jury in R. Kelly's trial.

JMS is the living embodiment of Ferrous Cranus.

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm

Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics.

[daveakl]

Your explaination doesn't fit your Statement.

Your Statement

#1 I can call the zit on your ass an abscess, but I can't call the abscess on your ass a zit?

Isn't proven by

#2 All zits are abscesses but all abscesses aren't zits.

Logically. The first statement is not logical. The second statement doesn't prove the first. We aren't talking about all abscesses, we are talking about Clemen's butt zits.

Yeah nobody but me and Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/zit

Sorry, but Roget's New Millennium is not an expert on the abscess on Clemens butt. You are the only person saying that his abscess is the same as a zit. By your logic we could also call it a carbuncle which could be a red gemstone.

No wonder you like Roger so much, he ****s ruby's.

[Thiebear]

If you mention Mcnamee: he was and thus is a liar, not matter that his future freedom requires him to not be found lying.

If you mention his wife, she used it once without him knowing somehow for several years (once) and she knew he had HGH from i'm guessing Petit whom she must have been sleeping with?

If you mention Petit: he was under oath and couldnt remember his best friend and best player in the history of baseball telling him he used steroids because it was 8 years later...

If you mention the medical reports that specifically state the abseses are due to the HGH and no chance its B12 he calls it a zit.

If you mention ALL of the lies during his testimony: McNamee is a bigger lier.. nothing to see here please dispurse.

If you point out he thinks 98% of professionals use it, he admits it, except for an individual person.. the 98% is a vague number of people nobody knows...

Its a circular argument you can not win.

[daveakl]

lol, that and he still won't address anything on Clemens or himself being wrong about a number of things.

[Predicto]

Ok I'll buy that. I respect your opinion, and will give you the last word, as the ultimate decider on this issue.....

1. Would you say that this evidence proves Clemens is lieing?
   
2. Would you say that any court in the land would convict based on this evidence that Clemens is lieing...
   

You've already said you believe this evidence points to Clemens lieing.

You have the last word.

It depends on the legal standard applied.

If this were, say, a civil case where Clemens sued McNamee for slander (or viceversa), where you had to decide based on "the preponderence of the evidence" whether Clemens is lying, then there is no question in my mind that Clemens would lose, and lose big time.

If this were a criminal case, where you had to decide whether Clemens lied under the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" in order to slam him in jail, then I think the case would be closer. Clemens would still probably lose, because even circumstantial evidence can meet this higher standard and I think it does here, but he would at least have a fighting chance of convincing a jury to buy his improbable story.

That is my considered opinion, but I shouldn't be the "ultimate decider." I have been wrong before. I thought OJ was going to be convicted, for example.

[EersSkins05]

Let's examine that...

• McNamee admitted to buying steroids.
  
• Admitted to selling steroids.
  
• Admitted to injecting them into people.
  
• Admitted to fraud in representing himself as a doctor of sports medicine.
  
• Admitted to lieing to federal investigators.
  

And got amnesty in all of the above crimes, not just for this hearing, but amnesty in all future court proceedings, because he was able to implicate Clemens.

If he is found to be lieing about Clemens, his amnesty is over, and he's likely going to jail for purjury, drug dealing, and fraud. Maybe impersonating a doctor too.

Sorry. This is just plain incorrect. McNamee was never granted immunity. Ever.

He was told that he would be prosecuted only if he lied. Giving him strong incentive to tell the truth, which he obviously did about Pettitte and Knoblauch.

Also to note, the Blue Jay's staff was concerned about the Abscess because it was causing Roger enough problems that he could have had to go on the disabled list. That is def. not from what you call a simple butt zit.

Don't forget that they did it because Roger was seen bleeding through his uniform pants, which is why he started carrying around a box of band-aids at all times. (Not even remotely suspicious, obviously. lol)

[JMS]

I said Predicto had the last word on this, so I'm not arguing any more But I wanted to address this incorrect statement..

Sorry. This is just plain incorrect. McNamee was never granted immunity. Ever.

He was told that he would be prosecuted only if he lied. Giving him strong incentive to tell the truth, which he obviously did about Pettitte and Knoblauch.

NEW YORK -- A "proffer" agreement between former Yankees strength coach Brian McNamee and federal prosecutors opened the door for McNamee to discuss what he knew about baseball's performance-enhancing drugs problem with the Mitchell investigation without fear of punishment, according to a story in Tuesday's New York Times.

By signing the one-page agreement, McNamee was able to speak freely, his lawyer, Earl Ward, told The Times. The Department of Justice agreed that his testimony wouldn't be used in any possible drug distribution cases, as long as McNamee continued to cooperate.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3159478

He did get amnesty. None of his stateents no any of the statements made by anybody testyfing before congress can be used against him in any court ever.

He got that deal for fingering Clemens. Drug dealing, Drug Posession, Fraud, and purgery all go away.

[Dan T.]

I said Predicto had the last word on this, so I'm not arguing any more But I wanted to address this incorrect statement..

. . .

He got that deal for fingering Clemens.

WRONG. He got the deal for telling "what he knew about baseball's performance-enhancing drugs problem" - NOT for fingering Clemens. He implicated others, too. Only Clemens denies it.

[daveakl]

I said Predicto had the last word on this, so I'm not arguing any more But I wanted to address this incorrect statement..

He did get amnesty. None of his stateents no any of the statements made by anybody testyfing before congress can be used against him in any court ever.

He got that deal for fingering Clemens. Drug dealing, Drug Posession, Fraud, and purgery all go away.

lol, read what you put in there:

"The Department of Justice agreed that his testimony wouldn't be used in any possible drug distribution cases, as long as McNamee continued to cooperate."

He did NOT get amnesty for everything, just in drug distribution cases. Wow, you have selective reading.

[EersSkins05]

lol, read what you put in there:

"The Department of Justice agreed that his testimony wouldn't be used in any possible drug distribution cases, as long as McNamee continued to cooperate."

He did NOT get amnesty for everything, just in drug distribution cases. Wow, you have selective reading.

Not to mention the fact that "failing to cooperate" would include... (get your pencils ready, class...) LYING.

[cakmoney61]

Clemens and McNamee have both been liars for the past 8 years. Clemens, however, is the one who is still lying. McNamee has decided to come clean.

Anyone with any common sense whatsoever knows that Clemens is lying. The circumstancial evident is overwhelming. Frankly, I'm offended that he would think any rational human being would believe the garbage that is coming out of his mouth.

What he is doing goes way beyond lying. He is living in some kind of self-induced dementia. Does the man even have a conscience? I have no idea how he could look anyone, especially McNamee, in the face.