How would you fix the hole at WR??

[Veretax]

"How would you fix the hole at WR??"

How about Duct Tape, that always works for me.

[motorhead]

What hole?

I guess we forgot we had Mix, 6-5, 235 runs a 4.4.

[Spitfire71]

I am not into butchering the WR corp either, but facts are facts. Moss was a stand out for one year here. 2005. Before that and after that he has not proven to be a go to guy. Plus... he is always injured. I would rather have a guy with 3/4 of Moss's talent if they can play 16 games straight.

I want to keep ARE. He is our Welker... well, he could be. He has the speed and route running ability.

Very true, but what happened in 2005?

1. CP was running like a beast.

2. Mark Brunell had a resurgence.

3. The line blocked long enough for Santana to use his speed to get downfield.

4. Santana wasn't hurt.

5. We didn't have the power struggle provided by the addition of Al Saunders in '06, nor a system that really didn't fit the guys we had.

The past two years, our offense has been trashed due to injuries, but moreso due to conservative playcalling. Other than that, the only reason we didn't throw to Santana as much this year is because we've got a new quarterback that's not used to throwing to short receivers.

Santana: 5'10"

Mark: 6'1"

Jason: 6'5". He's 7 inches taller than Santana, and, unlike Mark (whose arm was respectable when he was playing well) has what we'd like to call a rocket launcher attached to his shoulder. There were a couple of times that Santana burned the crap out of the guy that was covering him and JC missed way long. If JC works on his accuracy to his shorter receivers and we bring in a tall guy, I think he'll be fine.

Another thing was the playcalling. Those WR screens and the routes that were money for Santana last year in all of his insane YAC yardage in '05 were almost nonexistant in Saunders' system. I think that Santana will work a bit better in WCO

Besides, if we don't try things as is for a year, we really won't get an accurate picture of how Zorn is as a HC, will we? The measure of a good coach, IMO, is what he can do with the players he has - not playing fantasy football and signing some big-name veteran, paying our right arm and hoping he pans out. I don't like cutting Moss at this point.

First of all, that'd come across as a giant :finger: to the fans. Second, he hasn't had a chance to work in this offense. Moss really came around toward the end of the season.

I'm of the mind that we give Moss one more year and see what he can do in the WCO. He should be on a short leash, though - especially if he goes down with a nagging injury. Note that I said nagging - not a freak fracture or something like that, there's nothing you can do about those. But if he tweaks a hammie again and doesn't play half the games next year, I'd look elsewhere.

Just not yet. Give 89 time to gel with the team.

He went 61 and 808 this year even with the hammie problem and the line and QB accuracy issues.

The last three games he especially broke out:

15 VS NYG - 3 rec, 75 Yds,

16 VS MIN - 4 rec, 71 Yds, TD

17 VS DAL - 8 rec, 115, TD

Keep Santana with the team - if nothing else, he's a Cowgirl killer. You remember his first game in '05 against the 'Boys, don't you? I'm sure everyone who's been following the Skins that long does...

And move him around a bit. Maybe he'll be more effective if the defense doesn't always know where he's lining up. It'd be easy to switch Randle El and Moss and not really be able to tell. Both are 5'10, about 195 or so, and both are quick. Even...if you put Moss in the slot and match him up against a nickel corner. Mix it up. (And yes, that was a plug that's basically saying that I want Anthony in the slot)

And give the young guys on our PS a shot. Just because they're on the practice squad doesn't mean they're not good. Keenan McCardell was one of the better possession guys in the 90's. He was drafted in the TWELFTH round - by the Redskins, fittingly enough.

One of Joe's issues was the fact that he came off as very disdainful of very young players in general. The fact that he waited as long as he did to start Campbell when Brunell was obviously at the end of his line and not getting the job done, and the fact that we have NO starting offensive players younger than 25 years of age demonstrate that.

What about Mix? He's the first big receiver the Redskins have had in years, and just because he's inexperienced, you're going to let him languish on the PS or in special teams purgatory? That's not right. How else will guys like Mix gain experience if they're babied and never allowed to see the field? These guys came to the NFL to show what they could do, and just because they're not (or are) big names or they were drafted low (or high) doesn't mean a damn thing?

Marques Colston's just the beginning - a lot of the good receivers - even #1 guys - weren't drafted in the 1st round:

TO: Round 3

Joe Horn (albeit past his prime now): Round 5

Steve Smith: Round 3

Deion Branch: Round 2

Wes Welker: UNDRAFTED

Get my point? We have several wideouts on our PS and the chances are pretty good that one of them can bust out for us...if we give him the shot.

[Truant]

We should try drafting a WR instead of paying $$$$$$$$$ for one or just hoping that one just magically materializes out of the ether.

Hackett seems like a pretty good option. If he could be had for a reasonable salary, sure. But I'd use a 3rd or 4th on a player like Adrian Arrington.

[tml6157]

I cant 100% blame those stats on our wideouts. JC and the playcalling had alot to do with that. That said, I love Moss and ARE (& Cooley). I said, and have said - we need someone to move the chains similar to Welker and get us first downs.

Moss is our Welker, we just need a Randy (Chad Johnson) to open up things for him

[jivelikenice]

First, we have to settle "CAP" issues and we have to do that internally. At present we do have players that are becoming "long in the tooth". In free agency, it seems as tho we've always given up more than we received, case in point "LLOYD", a "sham artist" that really took the team for a ride, and cost us dearly.

In our up-coming operations covering "the cap, free agency and the draft", we have to use "due dilligence".

Remember that Joe said that he would be retained as an advisor,and also remember that he will continue to advise Dan as his mentor. !!!

Good points, but if they do decide to pursue CJ or RW I don't think you can lump either in with Lloyd who never produced at their levels.

[dirty30]

First we got to get rid of Blloyd... Then I would go after a chad johnson... even tho I know this would never happen, I would love to see us try to trade for steve smith... Now dont get that confused with the New York Giants steve smith... santana moss and steve smith---enuf said--

[jivelikenice]

We should try drafting a WR instead of paying $$$$$$$$$ for one or just hoping that one just magically materializes out of the ether.

Hackett seems like a pretty good option. If he could be had for a reasonable salary, sure. But I'd use a 3rd or 4th on a player like Adrian Arrington.

Drafting a wr in Round 1 (if thats what your'e saying) is the last option for me. If you use your # 1 on a wr you have to make sure you're getting production and there have been too many busts at wr.

Look at Carlos. Prior to his injury as a corner he still had value even though he didn't live up to his expectations. A corner or an end that just end up being above average in Round 1 have more value then a wideout who ends up in the 800 yard range going in Round 1. If you don't trade the pick for a proven quantity at wr, you go for a premium position; otherwise i hate the idea of drafting a wr in Round 1 ever at all times.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I would pick up Andre Davis to handle Punt Returns and use him as our slot reciever.

[Bleed_B&G]

We need to find an Art Monk type. As many of us can't stand how Danny runs the team. Hate to admit it but he does seem to do decent in the draft room.

http://www.thehogs.net/History/draftHistory.php It only goes up to 2006, but it even surprised me when I looked at it. IMO we draft a big WR who is willing to go across the middle. Mix might be able to be that guy but won't be if not pushed. I can see Moss being Gary Clark, ARE being Ricky Sanders, making us just big WR from putting it all back together.

[Spitfire71]

You can get a guy that produces just as well from a lower round. Most of the time, the only reason a guy like that didn't get drafted high is size (like Steve Smith for the panthers) or the fact that he didn't play at a huge-name school (Marques Colston was from Hofstra, TO was drafted in the 3rd round from Tennessee-Chattanooga), so you're really rolling the dice with getting just any guy in the 1st round unless he's got some uncoachable trait that makes him a guy you have to grab while he's there.

(Calvin Johnson, for example. He'll be a great receiver, especially if Roy Williams bows out of Detroit. There's no amount of coaching that can make a guy 6'6", 240 or so.)

[mbws]

Are there any WR in the CFL or AFL worth looking at?

[Passizle]

so where did all this salary cap come from to take the cap hits on trading lloyd and moss, and cap hits that williams and ocho would cost us.

on top of all this, you have us signing briggs?

the cap is an issue!!!!! we are 13 over at this point....we can restructure and make cuts to get a few million under the cap to sign a couple free agents and our draft pcks....but you would add like 20 million to our cap w/ your trade plans and added on salaries.

There are always ways around that issue. We have been in cap hell for years... at least thats the major consensus.

If you give them alot of money in signing bonus/up front/yadda yadda, it does not hit against the cap. You can also put out incentive clauses and what-not. Its not that complicated.

This would be a fantasy thing anyway. There is no way in hell we could get Johnson and Williams in one fell swoop.

You forget that you can also get rid of some dead weight.

[[[ghost]]]

Just a big MoFo who will catch the damn ball and get us 2 YACs. Move the chains, and get us TDs. You dont' have to get us the 50+ yard bomb, just be our sure hands.

Ocho Cinco or Limas Sweed, baby.

What hole?

The one where we don't score any touchdowns. That one. :doh:

I guess we forgot we had Mix, 6-5, 235 runs a 4.4.

And he's done nothing with it. Stop assuming that a STer will be our future Randy Moss or our TO in the endzone. Its a nice thought, but you may as well pretend that Kevin Huntley is our Jared Allen, and that Leigh Torrence is our Darrel Green.

Moss is our Welker, we just need a Randy (Chad Johnson) to open up things for him

ARE is our Welker. Welker just runs around as a #3. Moss would be our Stallworth.

[HogNose]

Is Michael Westbrook out there somewhere? :laugh:

[#98QBKiller]

The draft, plain and simple

[jeremynt]

I would like to see the Redskins keep their draft picks and use them to bring more youth to an aging defense and provide some depth to an aging offensive line. I would love to have a playmaker like Chad Johnson as a Redskin, but I think it would be too costly to the team's future to give up what he would likely require in a trade. If they get him at something similar to the cost of Randy Moss last year, then go for it, but I hope a first round pick isn't lost. Heck, I'd give a 2nd rounder to get him--but not anything more.

We have two speedy receivers now and I think the perfect fit would be the hometown guy, Bryant Johnson. He has the height and the skills to be that possession receiver we need. In Arizona he caught around 40 balls a season behind those other two guys--and the guy is still young at age 27 in March. And who knows, maybe a change in setting is all he needs to fill out some of his potential. And it won't be nearly as expensive to get him as it would most others.

We also have Mike Espy, who was looking like he was going to have a good season last year before he was injured, and James Thrash was still here the last time I checked. He is a great everything guy that produces when his number is called.

I really don't think we need a number one wr to come in. If we get one at the right price--great! But hopefully we won't go crazy for offensive talent when I still think the defense is our biggest areas of need. If you think of it, we have some amazing talent already on offense. Portis, Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Campbell, etc. If we are gonna splurge, do it on the D-line. But if you give a bunch of money and draft picks for one guy, it is taking away from the resources to fill most of our holes.

[Seabee1973]

Draft is probably the best way to go

[Gator Bait]

There are always ways around that issue. We have been in cap hell for years... at least thats the major consensus.

If you give them alot of money in signing bonus/up front/yadda yadda, it does not hit against the cap. You can also put out incentive clauses and what-not. Its not that complicated.

This would be a fantasy thing anyway. There is no way in hell we could get Johnson and Williams in one fell swoop.

You forget that you can also get rid of some dead weight.

I'm fully aware how the cap works and how to restructure, and what you call "dead weight"....just remember that "dead weight" you cut, you have to replace w/ a new player, and a new salary! plus you are still paying the "dead weight" cap hit. we have to do these things to get back under the salary cap (we are 13mil over right now) by the time we do all this to get a resonable amount under the cap, we aren't going to be able to trade moss and lloyd and take their cap hits (moss would be a HUGE cap hit) and take on salaries of roy williams, chad johnson, and lance briggs.

[Gator Bait]

I would like to see the Redskins keep their draft picks and use them to bring more youth to an aging defense and provide some depth to an aging offensive line. I would love to have a playmaker like Chad Johnson as a Redskin, but I think it would be too costly to the team's future to give up what he would likely require in a trade. If they get him at something similar to the cost of Randy Moss last year, then go for it, but I hope a first round pick isn't lost. Heck, I'd give a 2nd rounder to get him--but not anything more.

We have two speedy receivers now and I think the perfect fit would be the hometown guy, Bryant Johnson. He has the height and the skills to be that possession receiver we need. In Arizona he caught around 40 balls a season behind those other two guys--and the guy is still young at age 27 in March. And who knows, maybe a change in setting is all he needs to fill out some of his potential. And it won't be nearly as expensive to get him as it would most others.

We also have Mike Espy, who was looking like he was going to have a good season last year before he was injured, and James Thrash was still here the last time I checked. He is a great everything guy that produces when his number is called.

I really don't think we need a number one wr to come in. If we get one at the right price--great! But hopefully we won't go crazy for offensive talent when I still think the defense is our biggest areas of need. If you think of it, we have some amazing talent already on offense. Portis, Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Campbell, etc. If we are gonna splurge, do it on the D-line. But if you give a bunch of money and draft picks for one guy, it is taking away from the resources to fill most of our holes.

great post. only thing I don't agree with is thrash still being on the team next year.

[Chachie]

The instant gratification/possibility of results will be too much for Snyderatto to pass up.

1. Roy Williams

2. Chad Johnson

3. Jerry Porter

4. Draft pick 2nd rd+

Good point.

Keep in mind, everyone that neither of our current starting WRs are big enough to be thought of as "West Coast Offense" WRs. I'm not saying they CAN'T do the job. I'm just saying this scheme prefers bigs.

[Spitfire71]

]']Just a big MoFo who will catch the damn ball and get us 2 YACs. Move the chains' date=' and get us TDs. You dont' have to get us the 50+ yard bomb, just be our sure hands.

Ocho Cinco or Limas Sweed, baby.

]']The one where we don't score any touchdowns. That one. :doh:

That's because in the beginning of the year our deep guys were beat up and the majority of our passes were going to Cooley, who isn't 'technically' a receiver by trade.

]']And he's done nothing with it. Stop assuming that a STer will be our future Randy Moss or our TO in the endzone. Its a nice thought' date=' but you may as well pretend that Kevin Huntley is our Jared Allen, and that Leigh Torrence is our Darrel Green.[/quote']

"Just a big MoFo who will catch the damn ball and get us 2 YACs. Move the chains, and get us TDs. You dont' have to get us the 50+ yard bomb, just be our sure hands."

We signed Mix extremely late because he was out there and we didn't know if Moss and ARE would get back healthy again. Unfortunately, we already had Moss, ARE, Caldwell, McCardell, Thrash...and how many times did we even see four of those guys on the field at once?

Mix didn't really get a chance to crack the lineup last year. Keep him around for training camp and see what he does.

BTW, does 6'5", 235 qualify as a 'big MoFo'? Because that's Mix's size.

ARE is our Welker. Welker just runs around as a #3. Moss would be our Stallworth.

Welker wasn't a #3. He was a #2 playing slot. He had more catches than Moss did - or anyone else in the NFL besides T.J. Houshmandzadeh, for that matter. He went 112 receptions for 1175 yards and 8 TDs, and he was on the outside most times toward the end.

That said, I think you could put either Moss or ARE in the slot and have them do pretty well. Better yet, switch them around. Moss has already proven he can play out there when he's healthy.

I say Moss, Randle El, Caldwell, Mix, and then bring up Mix and Espy. If not, then Thrash, who has been serviceable as a spot starter and is a ST beast, as well as a fan favorite.

And then draft one receiver - just one, on the second day, because we're going to end up with a couple of guys on the PS anyway that we can always promote if we have THAT much of an injury situation.

[Uno Mas]

I cant 100% blame those stats on our wideouts. JC and the playcalling had alot to do with that. That said, I love Moss and ARE (& Cooley). I said, and have said - we need someone to move the chains similar to Welker and get us first downs.

IF we got a stud receiver like a Chad Johnson or a Larry Fitz., Santana or even Randel El would immediately turn into our Welker. I dont want to give up picks for any reciever. Id like to give Anthony Mix some time and use our pics on O and D line.

[theMEAST21]

draft jordy nelson in the third, go DL in the first and Corner in the second

[jistardy]

1. Hire a WR Coach that can teach the position and a history of good results.

2. Give Anthony Mix a legit shot at the other starting WR slot.

3. Give Brandon Lloyd a legit shot under the new regime

We cannot afford to put more money into the WR position. We need to get out of this free agent frenzy thinking and get back to training the guys you draft to become the players you need.

Mix looked really good on special teams and I think he has earned a shot working for the starting WR slot. At 6'5, 230 pounds he is already here and he presents all kinds of matchup problems for DBs.

Dito that brother.