'you are what you eat' - Earthlings - a disturbing look at animal abuse

[zoony]

My uneducated guess is that humans have evolved over the centuries as opportunistic eaters. The human's great weakness is that we are entirely incapable of hunting down prey. Our great strength is that we don't necessarily have to.

If I had to guess I'd say early humans were scavengers as much as anything else. Eating meat already killed by capable animals. And in lean times, foraging for fruits/vegetables/etc.

.....

[chipwhich]

I gotta agree with Destino here. The only way the producers will have an incentive to behave differently is if the consumers force them to. Throwing up your hands and saying, "It's not my problem--it's theirs" actually means "I don't care--it's not important enough for me to change my behavior."

It comes down to $$$$. Consumers want cheap meat.

Same with fruits and vegetables. Consumers care so much about the appearance of the food not realizing as payment for appearance they get extra chemicals.

[footballhenry]

I watched about the first 7 minutes of this video, until the narrator starting trying to compare animals to holocaust victims. I'm not an easy guy to offend, and I'm not even jewish, but I have to say that made me flip it off. I'm willing to cull my diet if given good cause, but if an individual with an agenda wants to get a rather neutral guy like me to listen to them, getting rid of **** like that might be a good start.

no no, your missing the point. The point is that ALL life is valuable, not just a segment of life.

[Destino]

It comes down to $$$$. Consumers want cheap meat.

Same with fruits and vegetables. Consumers care so much about the appearance of the food not realizing as payment for appearance they get extra chemicals.

Consumers want cheap clothes too but if that means promoting sweat shops it's not right. There is no question that greed is alive and well in free market decisions - people try to morally distance themselves from the choices they make at the store in the interest of saving money. The truth however is that no such seperation exists. What you buy encourages or discourages behavior more directly than voting, something people poor a lot of moral energy into.

[Ancalagon the Black]

It comes down to $$$$. Consumers want cheap meat.

Exactly. It's a market equation.

If people really cared about animal cruelty, rather than just saying they did, they would alter their behavior. They'd pay more for meat or switch to alternatives until the market responded with a product that reflected their economic behavior. After all, that's what valuing something is.

[herrmag]

Hmm, I have never heard of soy having any adverse affects. And especially with the consideration that soy has been eaten by Asians for years. Do you have sort of article to cite?

Soy has always been considered one of the best sources of protein, as well as being a complete protein. Personally, I eat Morning Star products which packed with tons of protein, especially the "burgers" and TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein).

I used to workout five days a week, including biking three days a week, and never had issues with physical strength or muscle retention. (My routine had some cardio, but a fair amount of strength training...) In fact, many athletes are vegetarian and they don't have such issues with muscle retention. Part of the secret is having a good diet and knowing what to eat for your workout routine.

The rate at which I train, I need anywhere between 1 and 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. Even while supplementing protein shakes, it is not easy to ingest that much protein without chicken breasts (or similar lean meat product).

As for soy; I still eat it, just can't survive as it being my primary protein source. I eat Boca/Morning Star stuff fairly frequently, but have recently cut back. Here's a link to the negative effects of too much soy: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/diet.fitness/06/23/soy.danger.wmd/index.html

I never said it was IMPOSSIBLE to be an athlete and be a vegetarian. I just said that I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend planning out every meal to ensure that I get my extreme (compared to the average person) protein requirements. Kudos to you if you put forth the effort, I just don't have the time.

[grhqofb5]

no no, your missing the point. The point is that ALL life is valuable, not just a segment of life.

I think there may have been a better way of articulating that than by invoking the holocaust analogy.

[81artmonk]

Why do you think animals do not have a soul and what is a soul ? I dont think we can ever prove it either way, but I am interested in hearing why you believe animals are less significant than humans?

-And- lets say you are right, animals are "soul-less", why should we destroy them when we dont need to eat them to SURVIVE?

Well, first off, the bible states that man is the only living thing given a soul, second the bible also states that man was given dominion over animals.

You may be right that we don't need to eat them to survive, however, just becuase we don't need to doesn't mean we can't.

You have to understand that these animals we are talking about are raised souly for the purpose of slaughter and consumption. It's not like we are going into the wild and killing a habitat or species in order to eat.

I liken it to making cereal. these animals are brought about and make so we can eat them nothing more nothing less.

[GoSkins561]

You might be right about that, but unfortunately the process of slaughtering an animal isnt that easy. They feel a tremendous amount of pain up to their killing, because most animals, especially factory farm ones, are kept in small cramped spaces for most of their lives. They are fed crap, they get treated like crap, and lot of them suffer psychological damage. All these animals get branded (thats torture), they all get their tails or beaks cut off (torture), they all get whipped when not producing(torture), they are injected with tons of drugs (torture), they are seperated from their families (torture)..do i really have to keep on going? Most animals arent shot anymore nowadays because it is too expensive. They just slice their throats, and quite a few stay alive for a long time after that.

From the moment these animals are born, to their death, they are exploited. They did not choose to live that life, and who are we to put them through all that. That exploitation is enough torture for these poor creatures. Even if we had the a technique in which no pain was involved, I believe you are misinformed about the torture factor.

This is going to sound horribe but here it goes. I didn't watch the video and probably shouldn't be participating in this thread because I enjoy a nice steak or a big fat juicy burger.

I am an animal lover, so I choose to ignore how the steak gets from farm to the butcher, from the butcher to the grocery store. As selfish as it sounds, all I care about is how it gets from the grill to my plate. If everyone were activists this world would be in a hell of a lot more trouble than it is now.

With this being said, in the future maybe I will do my best to purchase meats from the amish markets and butchers, quite frankly they have the best quality any way.

Without watching the video I am sure the sights are horrible but the whole bit about being seperated from their families is stretching it a bit. If your dog were to become pregnant with 15 puppies, would you keep all of them just for the sake of keeping the family intact?

[zoony]

I think we're at an amazing time in history where humans have the time and resources to worry about the feelings of animals.

This country has so much wealth and prosperity it is almost embarassing when you take a step back and think about it.

I thought about ending this post with a picture of starving children, but I decided against it. But you get the point.

[81artmonk]

You might be right about that, but unfortunately the process of slaughtering an animal isnt that easy. They feel a tremendous amount of pain up to their killing, because most animals, especially factory farm ones, are kept in small cramped spaces for most of their lives. They are fed crap, they get treated like crap, and lot of them suffer psychological damage. All these animals get branded (thats torture), they all get their tails or beaks cut off (torture), they all get whipped when not producing(torture), they are injected with tons of drugs (torture), they are seperated from their families (torture)..do i really have to keep on going? Most animals arent shot anymore nowadays because it is too expensive. They just slice their throats, and quite a few stay alive for a long time after that.

From the moment these animals are born, to their death, they are exploited. They did not choose to live that life, and who are we to put them through all that. That exploitation is enough torture for these poor creatures. Even if we had the a technique in which no pain was involved, I believe you are misinformed about the torture factor.

and..............your point?? They are raised for that?? They are a food source, not your family pet. I will give you that things could be done more humanly, but in the end, they end up on my table for dinner and does it really matter how they died?? IMO it doesn't, some are more sensitive than others and I guess to them it matters.

[PeterMP]

no no, your missing the point. The point is that ALL life is valuable, not just a segment of life.

Actually, you only value life that you are able to easily anthropomorphize. You don't hesitate to kill plants to eat them. I'll bet you don't hesitate to take antibiotics.

[81artmonk]

My biggest complaint when it comes to these animal hugging types who say meat is murder, which I work with one, and they are hypocrites. They say I shouldn't eat meat, yet they are wearing leather sneakers. Made of leather? Where does leather come from??? animal hydes(I think that's how you spell it)

We shouldn't comsume meat, yet they have a leather wallet or purse. again animals gave up their life to make that.

Most of the make-up they wear or the perfume they have on is made in some way from animals giving up their lives.

[chipwhich]

Consumers want cheap clothes too but if that means promoting sweat shops it's not right. There is no question that greed is alive and well in free market decisions - people try to morally distance themselves from the choices they make at the store in the interest of saving money. The truth however is that no such seperation exists. What you buy encourages or discourages behavior more directly than voting, something people poor a lot of moral energy into.

If it were as simple as making moral decisions I might agree with you. It's not that simple.

If you drive a car in america, there is a good chance something in that vehicle was manufactured in a 'sweat shop'. My cousin who works for one of the leading manufacturers of air bag injector pumps has been in the process of moving their factories from the US to China...cheap labor. Are you not buying a car because of a moral decision to avoid this practice? Do you think the chinese working in these factories are sorry they have an opportunity to make a few dollars? They are thrilled to have work. You might call it a sweat shop. Your purchasing of the car, in my opinion, doesn't mean you are making a "moral" decision for sweat shops.

Our nations meat comes from a variety of sources including local farmers, these animals aren't all "tortured" and you cant know as a consumer what you are actually buying...look around at farms in this area with cows walking around fields. Those cows are going to market, they may end up on your table, but they don't look like they are suffering. I grew up around family and friends with farms/farm animals. I can assure you I have never seen them "torture" any of them.

[TrumanB]

I assume what you're trying to say from what I understand, is that, you are not in the best of health but since you have freedom in choosing what makes you most satisfied (i.e meat) that brings some sense of happiness to your life? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Uh, actually, it was just a joke.

On a serious note, I am a diabetic (Type II). So, it's really not the meat that's dangerous for me. I am otherwise very healthy - perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. I just have to avoid the sweets, of course, but other foods that a lot of people don't realize increase the glucose in your blood stream. Stuff like white bread, white rice, etc. all contribute to higher levels of glucose.

[GoSkins561]

I have a question and again I did not watch the video because I am an animal lover.

For the sake of argument, is taking a dime size rubber band and stretching it around a "unqualified for reproduction" baby rams/sheeps nut sack, cutting off all circulation until the testicles turn purple and fall off considered torture?

[chipwhich]

I have a question and again I did not watch the video because I am an animal lover.

For the sake of argument, is taking a dime size rubber band and stretching it around a "unqualified for reproduction" baby rams/sheeps nut sack, cutting off all circulation until the testicles turn purple and fall off considered torture?

Whats your opinion?

[iheartskins]

For the sake of argument, is taking a dime size rubber band and stretching it around a "unqualified for reproduction" baby rams/sheeps nut sack, cutting off all circulation until the testicles turn purple and fall off considered torture?

Not if we could do that with humans and I made the determination.

I kid, I kid.

[footballhenry]

I have a question and again I did not watch the video because I am an animal lover.

For the sake of argument, is taking a dime size rubber band and stretching it around a "unqualified for reproduction" baby rams/sheeps nut sack, cutting off all circulation until the testicles turn purple and fall off considered torture?

Of course it is. Its the infliction of pain and suffering onto another sentient animal, often times for mere mindless sport.

[footballhenry]

Not if we could do that with humans and I made the determination.

Say what?!? Dude, if your causing another creature pain and suffering needlessly its TORTURE. period. :mad:

[GoSkins561]

Whats your opinion?

lol, well since I felt the effects of the rubber band first hand.....

on my finger of course, I am kind of okay with it.

[iheartskins]

Say what?!? Dude, if your causing another creature pain and suffering needlessly its TORTURE. period. :mad:

Someone missed the joke!

[jbooma]

footballhenry just promise us you are not joining PETA

now remember you have an opinion and that is what makes us great, what you can't do is sit there and think everyone else is just wrong because they don't agree with you.

I have a coworker that has taken this same stand, and I applaude her. However I hate it when she trys and tells us we are wrong. Remember it is just and opinion and thats it.

Personally we raise animals to feed ourselves, we have done that for centuries now and that won't change. I try and buy meat when I eat it from Whole Foods or other places that promise to sell meat that is organic and not from any type of abuse.

[jbooma]

Say what?!? Dude, if your causing another creature pain and suffering needlessly its TORTURE. period. :mad:

so what would you feel if a lion is about to attack you

[chipwhich]

Say what?!? Dude, if your causing another creature pain and suffering needlessly its TORTURE. period. :mad:

Seriously you ever been on a farm, these animals are resilient to this type of stuff. They aren't suffering. But I guess if you don't experience it first hand you wouldn't know.

A cow doesn't suffer from branding.

Nor from having their ears pierced with a tag.

And they don't cry for their babies once they are taken from the fields.

Sorry to clue you in.