'you are what you eat' - Earthlings - a disturbing look at animal abuse

[chipwhich]

Again, I would like to see this research. Soy protein has been eaten for years, and I have heard of little, if any, adverse affects.

Well, factory farming is often the focus of these sort of videos.

Extensive research has been done, google around. I don't want to turn this into a criticism of a specific link on soy or tofu. There has been lots of research on the subject and the dangers of it. Of course eating steroid laden meat, pesticide laden fruit and vegetables, we are not really escaping anything....but don't think soy is the golden boy of foods.

[Baculus]

Becoming a vegetarian in protest of animal cruelty and/or unsanitary conditions is an ultimately futile act. There are simply too many people who enjoy eating meat for this kind of action to really be at all noteworthy to the masses. Furthermore, vegetarianism is normalized to the point where it is easily ignored by most regardless of the reasons for it. It's just a form of lazy activism... there are other things you could be doing to actually help spark a change.

Sometimes one's personal "crusade" may seem nominal, but that doesn't mean that it is merely "futile," or none of us should ever take up any sort of personal cause. And if this changes one person's attitude, then good: I don't expect such changes to happen for everyone. But sometimes it is one person at a time.

Some folks have unrealistic expectations with their crusades, but sometimes it is chipping away at attitudes one person at a time. But it isn't lazy - for some folks, such as myself, it is a daily practice, but we can always talk to folks about why we have a particular diet.

Also, I am fully aware that vegetarianism is sometimes a luxury. I really don't expect a third-world meat-based culture to be able to make such dietary changes.

Becoming a vegetarian because you find killing and devouring another sentient being disgusting or morally reprehensible is just a joke

That's an absurd statement. And let me ask you this: Would you walk up to a dog or horse and shoot it in the head? And if not, why?

I fail to see a "joke" in compassion. And if you think compassion is a joke, then obviously we are two completely different types of people.

Now, I can understand if you do it for religious purposes (because there's obviously something more at stake in that case) but you're simply just thinking about it too much. You have to realize that in the grander scheme of things people are animals and animals will eat other animals to survive.

Way to contradict yourself in a short amount of time. Some folks are religiously vegetarian for reasons of compassion, and that they "find killing and devouring another sentient being disgusting or morally reprehensible."

Of course animals will kill other animals. But some of us would like to think that they aren't just mere animals that eat and fornicate, and that we can arise above our nature.

I may be different, I suppose.

[ncsuapex]

I belong to PETA

People

Eating

Tasty

Animals

!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm meat!

[Drockvb]

It is a shame that animals are treated so poorly then sent to a brutal death. But we gotta eat some meat. I wish the people tending these animals would treat the animals with more care and sympathy, but how can you watch everyone 24 hours a day? You can't, so there will always be ones that show no mercy or sympathy for the animals we consume. It is a shame but what can you do?

[Karl B.]

I may be different, I suppose.

most definitely!!!!!:laugh:

I love animals, they taste great and their skins keep me warm and my feet dry.

[Baculus]

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm

Thanks for the links: some interesting information.

On the other hand, I also located articles which state that the "soy danger" has been overstated, and, of course, many articles touting soy's benifits.

http://newsletter.vitalchoice.com/e_article000673595.cfm?x=b8drcdL,b5PRNLJ0

Probably, like any diet, a vegetarian has to make sure they are eating a complete diet, and intaking any necessary supplemants.

[TrumanB]

I'm the opposite of a vegetarian. I eat some kind of meat with every meal. Hell, I usually eat meat when snacking too.

[footballhenry]

Does anyone believe that we as human beings, the overriding species on this planet, have any moral responsibility to mother earth, and nature herself for gifting us with so many resources? I mean truly, the planet and the animals of this planet uplift and provide for us as a species....isn't it about time we give back??

And just to note, I am NOT condemning the action of mere 'meat-eating'. All I am raising is the belief that there are better, more humanely balanced ways of providing for the masses. The horrors of these slaughterhouses is mindnumbing at times.

Do you really believe that God intended for human beings to slaughter and maim the earth and the other earthlings living on her so overindulgantly and incessantly??

Why are so many people callous when it comes to this subject? Do you forget that animals feel pain and suffering just as you and I?

:2cents:

"Nothing will benefit human health and

increase the chances for survival of life

on earth as much as the evolution

to a vegetarian diet"

Albert Einstein

" Our task must be to free ourselves...

by widening our circle of compassion

to embrace all living creatures and

the whole of nature and it's beauty."

Albert Einstein

[ArmchairRedskin]

Have you actually looked at the teeth of carnivores? We do not have the teeth, nor the digestive tract of such animals. We are not designed as carnivores, which is why we are omnivores. And, if you believe in evolution, our species has not be carnivores for years. If you believe in Creationism, then mankind was originally created for a vegetarian diet.

I just stating this on principle. :-) Your diet is your choice!

I never said we were carnivores. I said you have teeth in your mouth for eating meat. True or false?

I'm looking at it from a purely biological standpoint.

[Karl B.]

Isn't this a football site aren't footballs made of porkrinds I mean PIGSKIN!!!

[TrumanB]

Why are so many people callous when it comes to this subject? Do you forget that animals feel pain and suffering just as you and I?

:2cents:

I believe people are just being realistic, not callous. In our modern society, it is more efficient and convenient to get our meat products from slaughterhouses. The fact that these animals are killed in mass like that doesn't make it any worse than if I went out and hunted my own food.

[chipwhich]

Thanks for the links: some interesting information.

On the other hand, I also located articles which state that the "soy danger" has been overstated, and, of course, many articles touting soy's benifits.

http://newsletter.vitalchoice.com/e_article000673595.cfm?x=b8drcdL,b5PRNLJ0

Probably, like any diet, a vegetarian has to make sure they are eating a complete diet, and intaking any necessary supplemants.

Exactly why I didn't want to get into "Link Exchange".

Fact is their are problems with all diets, all foods. You have to do what you think is best from your health standpoint. That is different for everyones genetic makeup.

I am anti artificial sweetner, but I wouldn't win that battle on this board, nor can I win a battle with soy. For reasons too long to get into, I had to put my second daughter on soy formula. I have read lots of negatives on children and soy. I hope I didn't make a mistake by doing it. She is 8 now, who knows if it will have any long term negative ramifications.

[auburngirl_httr]

I think that the OP raises an interesting point. I am obsessed with cooking and food and if I were to have any job, it would be as a chef. As it is, I work in a food-industry related field. I think that anyone who seriously examines our food industry and what occurs to produce the food we eat can't help but question the value of eating meat (or even vegetables and fruits that are grown in vast industrial monocultures that harm the environment, the farming tradition, and their nutritional value).

I haven't seen "Earthlings", but after having read Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma" I have a very different perspective on things. He questions meat eating and, to a greater extent, industrial eating. He ultimately continues to eat meat but concludes that the nature and way in which that meat was raised makes a difference and encourages introspection and thought about what we eat, every time we eat.

While I still eat meat, I try to make sure that as much of it as possible comes from humanely raised animals. And because that's tough to find and can be expensive, I just don't eat as much meat as I used to anymore.

In addition to watching the movie, I would encourage anyone that wants to read a defense of meat-eating but in a way that considers and respects ethics to pick up a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma".

Interesting topic of discussion.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Some folks have unrealistic expectations with their crusades, but sometimes it is chipping away at attitudes one person at a time. But it isn't lazy - for some folks, such as myself, it is a daily practice, but we can always talk to folks about why we have a particular diet.

Thats pretty much what lazy activism embodies... "I believe something should be done about X, so I will refuse to partake in activities related to X and will speak on the subject only if prompted. Anything else is just too much effort."

That's an absurd statement. And let me ask you this: Would you walk up to a dog or horse and shoot it in the head? And if not, why?

I fail to see a "joke" in compassion. And if you think compassion is a joke, then obviously we are two completely different types of people.

In any normal setting, I wouldn't shoot the dog or horse. Why not? Because I have no need to kill the animal and it is likely serving a different, similarly useful purpose.

I don't view compassion itself as a joke... but passion/compassion can easily be misguided.

Way to contradict yourself in a short amount of time. Some folks are religiously vegetarian for reasons of compassion, and that they "find killing and devouring another sentient being disgusting or morally reprehensible."

Of course animals will kill other animals. But some of us would like to think that they aren't just mere animals that eat and fornicate, and that we can arise above our nature.

I may be different, I suppose.

I didn't contradict myself... but we'd definitely start a religious debate if I opted to pursue the subject further. For the sake of the thread, we'll just pretend that I never mentioned religion at all

In order to rise above our nature we would have to be able to fully comprehend our nature... and discussing that would also probably lead off into another debate that ES has had before :doh:

[iheartskins]

We're the top of the food chain.

Part of the upside is eating everything below you--that's how the food chain works.

As long as we're responsible about it (a loose and hard to define term), then I have no problem with it.

[Oldskool]

Thanks for the links: some interesting information.

On the other hand, I also located articles which state that the "soy danger" has been overstated, and, of course, many articles touting soy's benifits.

http://newsletter.vitalchoice.com/e_article000673595.cfm?x=b8drcdL,b5PRNLJ0

Probably, like any diet, a vegetarian has to make sure they are eating a complete diet, and intaking any necessary supplemants.

I personally don't have anything against soy, or vegans/vegetarians in general. However, I do believe, as it is in most cases, a balance of both is needed. Our bodies were not designed to solely ingest plant material or animal products either. Limiting oneself goes against a millennials worth of evolution and design.

[chipwhich]

Do you really believe that God intended for human beings to slaughter and maim the earth and the other earthlings living on her so overindulgantly and incessantly??

Of course he did. One word:

OVERPOPULATION

If you don't get that concept, you can't really discuss.

[Burgundy Burner]

This is what I believe to be healthy, but would never force my opinions on the subject to anyone:

1. 50% of my diet is raw foods - vegetables, fruits, and walnuts.

2. Green tea.

3. Poultry and fish.

4. Red meat once or twice a week.

5. No alcohol

6. Water, fruit juices, orange juice, etc.

7. Supplements.

7. Limit carbonated beverages to a minimum - mostly at social gatherings.

8. Very little in the way of desserts - mostly at social gatherings.

9. Popcorn - my "guilty pleasure".

10. Exercise.

Back in the 1970s, basketball star Bill Walton embraced the counter-culture and one aspect of this change was becoming a vegetarian. He was one of the best until the early 1980s and then he began to have problems with his feet, legs, and knees. By the mid 1980s, Walton was diagnosed as having premature signs of osteoporosis and osteo-arthritis. After consulting several doctors and orthopedic experts, Walton discovered that his vegan lifestyle contributed to his medical problems.

Walton added meat to his diet and became a spokesman for the cattle industry. He learned that the right amount of red meat is good for the bones, cartilage, joints, ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc. Bill Walton had to learn it the hard way and it cut his career a bit shorter than anticipated.

[Enter Apotheosis]

As long as we're responsible about it (a loose and hard to define term), then I have no problem with it.

Bingo.

Does anyone believe that we as human beings, the overriding species on this planet, have any moral responsibility to mother earth, and nature herself for gifting us with so many resources? I mean truly, the planet and the animals of this planet uplift and provide for us as a species....isn't it about time we give back??

Nature tends to maintain equilibrium on its own, one way or another. We don't necessarily have a moral responsibility to give back... but it would be wise for us to actively work towards maintaining equilibrium. Continually unbalancing the equation will ultimately result in a rather large backlash with untold consequences.

Do you really believe that God intended for human beings to slaughter and maim the earth and the other earthlings living on her so overindulgantly and incessantly??

:doh:

Why are so many people callous when it comes to this subject? Do you forget that animals feel pain and suffering just as you and I?

:2cents:

It's not the subject that creates ire, its the people debating it.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

If you really are what you eat, then I'm a big *****, I guess.

And some of you are dicks.

:laugh:

[TitansFan]

Who cares, eat what you want. You're not special and different because of what you chew on.

...

You're right, nobody is special or different for what they chew on. Infact, none of us are special or different for any reason despite what we believe. We are all inherently the same because we all want whats best for ourselves. Regardless of who we are, what we think, what we do, we all want some sort of comfort and happiness. Also, at some level we all want everybody around us to feel some level of satisfcation, otherwise we risk starting all sorts of issues that will eventually harm us. Do you agree with me on that?

If you do agree with me on that generality, then why do say "Who cares, eat what you want." Health is the underlying fundamental tool for all humans to succeed in live, is it not? If we are not healthy, we wont function properly, and thus not always make the best choices. Look at how many peoples lives are ruined because of bad health!! Now, I am not going to raise any ethical points about the meat and dairy industry, but science has been proving for years how this stuff is just not good for us. To top things off, now we are eating all the chemicals the farmers are putting into these animals.

Who cares what you eat?? Well I do, but I'd like to hear your side of the story? Why shouldnt it matter what we eat, please elaborate?

[Mooka]

Fresh organic produce and high quality organic meats are friggin expensive.

[Ancalagon the Black]

I love meat. I love a thick, juicy steak or a nice rib roast. My mouth is watering just thinking about it.

However, here in Australia, we are in the thick of a drought that's gone on for almost ten years. Cattle and sheep consume enormous amounts of water to sustain, as well as taking up a lot of the food crop that is also grown on water-scarce land.

Because of this, I'm doing my best to shift towards a vegetable-intensive diet that includes less red meat and more free-range chicken. I've also started eating kangaroo, which is delicious, less fatty than beef, and far better in terms of resource usage.

I also think that fresh, organic meats and produce taste far better than almost anything you can get in a supermarket.

[TitansFan]

Read about the dangers of Soy and Tofu while you modify your dieting habits.

My grandparents and above were all farmers. Meat isn't bad, and all meat isn't treated like your little Earthlings propaganda video describes.

Im having trouble finding any credible research done on the dangers of Soy and Tofu. I believe anything in moderation, even alcohol and drugs, are not THAT dangerous. How can soy and tofu possibly be that bad? Can you please provide we with some evidence?

I had no problem finding out how bad meat is though. I dont see how you're grandparents being farmers justifies anything. The meat industry has drastically changed over that time. Can you also provide me with current evidence that meat is not bad for us?

On another note, most well planned Vegetarians and Vegans eat very litte soy or tofu (that is just a stereotype). There are so many other sources of protein including Seitan, Tempeh, Rice protien, Pea Protein, Quinoa/Kasha & many other grains, TVP (textured vegetable protein), eggplant, most vegetables/fruits, the list goes quite a while.

[Predicto]

The OP makes some good points. In general, Americans definitely would be healthier if we ate less meat, and the earth would benefit as well.

We also do have a moral responsibility to be as humane as possible in our animal husbandry practices, something that the meat industry does a terrible job with.

Still, I'm not going to subscribe to a moral imperative to be entirely meat free, much less vegan. It is not biologically natural.