Hiring Jim Mora Jr. as HC would be a mistake

[zCommander]

Yes, I would take Cowher over Mora in a heart beat. Yes, I would take Williams over Mora. No contest. I don't know alot about Grimm but certainly he is right in there. Williams is not an unproven commodity- he has a record as a HC and he has a good history with this team. Hiring Mora would be a huge risk. I don't think this organization (ie- Snyder and Cerratio) can afford to blow a HC selection again.

You realize that GW as a HC had a record of 17-31 in Buffalo the 3 years he was there.

Mora had a record of 26-22 the 3 years he was with the Falcons.

You tell me who has a better and proven record here?

GW when he was the HC for the Bills he ran a pretty conservative offense. Is that what you really want? Most of you here don't like to be conservative.

[Glockypoo]

The main reason I wanted Williams to get the job is for consistency. We finally have a team in which the offense and defense have been running the same system for a few seasons. Bringing someone in from the outside means starting from scratch. We hire someone besides Williams and I don't see him staying put. I just don't want to see the whole coaching staff blown up again.

Have you read the Washington Post? If GW gets hired Saunders is as good as gone. We will have a new offensive system.

[nneece]

Obviously anyone would take Cowher over Mora. But as of right now, no one knows what any of these current candidates are going to do if they become HC.

It's also funny that you say that GW is not an unproven commodity, while Mora is. When in all actuality Mora has a better record as HC than does Williams (26-22 vs. 17-31), plus he's been to an NFC Championship game. They both had issues with their respective teams, they both made some major gaffes as HC. They both have, since, coached under HOF caliber coaches (I believe Holmgren will be in the HOF). So they both could have learned a lot and matured a lot as HC material. And as it stands hiring either coach would be a risk. So we're all really just forced to wait and see with whomever Snyder hires (also remember the Gibbs has been part of the process, so don't think that this is all Snyder).

I just don't see how you can say that Mora is the wrong choice but be so sure that GW is the right/better choice. We wont know that until a few months from now.

Williams has 4 seasons with the Redskins. That can in no way be counted as an unknown commodity as far as the Skins organization is concerned. Now, out of that 4 seasons they may have some concerns about GW. He had 3 good seasons and 1 bad season as DC in my mind. He also, at times, seemed to have a rather large chip on his shoulder and chased some good talent off (or so it seemed). But, I do think that GW had learned from some of his gaffs and when he gets a second chance to prove himself as a HC he will grab the brass ring. I cannot say the same about Mora Jr. at this point.

[JMU1330]

17-31 is failing miserably, I'm sorry. And you still didnt answer my question about how Mora doesnt "fit" the Redskins.

And FWIW, I'm not saying I want Mora over Williams. In fact, I'd prefer Williams. I'm just trying to find out why everyone is so pro- GW and anti Mora. Thats all.

The "fit" comment is from someone else.

As for Williams, he was handed an AWFUL team and had an unsurprisingly bad year. Kind of like Gibbs 2.0's first year, actually. You can't just look at his first year and say he was awful. He went 3-13 in year 1, then 8-8. The team the next year was hit by injuries and spotty QB play due to having an old, washed up QB and still made it to 6-10. If he had had a a half decent QB, then do much better than that.

I'm not really pro GW. But, Mora is a worse candidate. Why go outside to org to bring in essentially a lower rated guy than someone you have on staff. It makes 0 sense unless Snyder just wants a puppet.

[nneece]

You realize that GW as a HC had a record of 17-31 in Buffalo the 3 years he was there.

Mora had a record of 26-22 the 3 years he was with the Falcons.

You tell me who has a better and proven record here?

GW when he was the HC for the Bills he ran a pretty conservative offense. Is that what you really want? Most of you here don't like to be conservative.

Last 2 seasons were horrendious. The falcons went on something like a 7 game losing streak both of the last 2 seasons. His stats look better then they are because of the early success they had.

[Glockypoo]

The "fit" comment is from someone else.

As for Williams, he was handed an AWFUL team and had an unsurprisingly bad year. Kind of like Gibbs 2.0's first year, actually. You can't just look at his first year and say he was awful. He went 3-13 in year 1, then 8-8. The team the next year was hit by injuries and spotty QB play due to having an old, washed up QB and still made it to 6-10. If he had had a a half decent QB, then do much better than that.

I'm not really pro GW. But, Mora is a worse candidate. Why go outside to org to bring in essentially a lower rated guy than someone you have on staff. It makes 0 sense unless Snyder just wants a puppet.

Ya, the "fit" comment was from someone else. But you've said Mora is awful and "lower rated" than Wiliams. Why? I want to know why you and others think that. He has a better track record than Williams as a HC. He didnt almost have a good season -- he actually went to the NFC championship game. This time last year the Redskins had one of the worst defenses in the entire league. Does one year of good, not great defense, make GW a no-brainer?

[Thinking Skins]

The main thing that Mora would be to me is a link to Vinny's past. It seems that Vinny is just clinging to those days in San Fran. I'm not saying that Mora would be a good or bad coach based on this. I mean we've signed a good player and a bad player from San Fran (Carter and Lloyd respectively). So its not like its all hit or all miss.

But I'd like to hope that Snyder isn't giving any inside track to Mora, just interviewing him because he has a nice resume and because Vinny recommended him. But nothing too serious yet.

I'm still putting my money on Josh McDaniels of New England!

[JMU1330]

Ya, the "fit" comment was from someone else. But you've said Mora is awful and "lower rated" than Wiliams. Why? I want to know why you and others think that. He has a better track record than Williams as a HC. He didnt almost have a good season -- he actually went to the NFC championship game. This time last year the Redskins had one of the worst defenses in the entire league. Does one year of good, not great defense, make GW a no-brainer?

He had a FAR more talented team in Atlanta. They underachieved. In Williams second year he was able to make a bad team overachieve. That's the difference. Simple wins and losses do not tell a complete story. It's the same thing as in baseball. Pitcher A goes 15-10 with an ERA of 4.70, a WHIP of 1.60 and 100k's. Player B goes 11-12 with an ERA of 3.10 a WHIP of 1.20 and 170k's, but played on a bad team. Who had the better year? Who is the better pitcher? You simply can not say "this guy won ___ more games. He's better!".

And again, Mora was openly saying the University of Washington job was his "dream job" while he was coaching the Falcons. How can you see that and just say "THAT'S the guy I want leading my team!".

[Hooper]

Talk to any Bills fan. Seriously. Williams alienated the entire fanbase and organization -- they couldn't wait for him to leave.

Again, just trying to be objective. Both Mora and Gregg have some marks against them.

[zoony]

Mora strikes me as the "nice guy" hire.

If Snyder does go with Mora, I think it will be because he wants another "nice guy", similar to Gibbs.

Problem of course is that Gibbs is a nice guy that commands respect. Mora is just kind of a goober.

[Glockypoo]

The baseball analogy is a good one, but you and I can spin this any way we want. I could point to the fact that Mora turned a 5-11 team into an 11-5 team. I can also point to the fact that Williams turned an 8-8 team into a 6-10 team.

Either way, I appreciate the banter. Its always fun discussing these things with other Skins fans and I can tell you are as passionate about this stuff as I am.

[JMU1330]

Talk to any Bills fan. Seriously. Williams alienated the entire fanbase and organization -- they couldn't wait for him to leave.

Again, just trying to be objective. Both Mora and Gregg have some marks against them.

Even if true, though I know a few Bills fans and that was not the case with them, Mora wanted to leave the Falcons to coach Univ of Washington. How is that not 10x worse?

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Williams has 4 seasons with the Redskins. That can in no way be counted as an unknown commodity as far as the Skins organization is concerned. Now, out of that 4 seasons they may have some concerns about GW. He had 3 good seasons and 1 bad season as DC in my mind. He also, at times, seemed to have a rather large chip on his shoulder and chased some good talent off (or so it seemed). But, I do think that GW had learned from some of his gaffs and when he gets a second chance to prove himself as a HC he will grab the brass ring. I cannot say the same about Mora Jr. at this point.

That's fine. Personally, I want Williams, but in all honesty I don't know how well Williams will do. He almost singlehandedly alienated the fans and players last year. He's always been a stubborn coach, with a my way or no way style, something that has been apparent to me since day 1. What I mean is that, he's been hard pressed to try to prove that what he does works, for instance, staying in a Tampa 2 coverage when our personnel is obviously not built for that and the opposing team is eating our defense alive.

Mora Jr. is only unproven because we say he is. But he's got a solid history as a D-Coord and seems to be a pretty solid DC. He helped the Falcons D go from dead last, to 14th his first season coaching them and the Falcons had 48 sacks which led the league. He helped turn the 49ers into a solid defense, he had Seattle's secondary playing very well this past season, where they were a very poor secondary the year prior.

I'm not pushing for Mora as HC, I'd love to see GW, but I'd rather see a winning coach and if that winning coach happens to be Jim Mora Jr. then so be it. But right now, they are both unproven HC candidates and the jury will be out on either of them until they start coaching whatever team they end up coaching.

[DCranon21]

The baseball analogy is a good one, but you and I can spin this any way we want. I could point to the fact that Mora turned a 5-11 team into an 11-5 team. I can also point to the fact that Williams turned an 8-8 team into a 6-10 team.

Either way, I appreciate the banter. Its always fun discussing these things with other Skins fans and I can tell you are as passionate about this stuff as I am.

I'm not denying what Mora Jr. did in '04. Really, Atlanta was already a playoff team in '03 with Reeves, but their best player was lost to a broken leg, and bam 5-11. He doesn't strike me as a coach who demands respect, but a coach who will be your buddy. I say he'll be the team's best player "towel boy", instead of getting in their faces when they or are ****ing up. Also, he likes the west coast offense. We are not a west coast type of team. These are reasons why I say no to Mora.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I live in Atlanta, and I can tell you that Jim Mora Jr. would be a huge mistake. When I first heard his name mentioned I thought they may be looking at him for an assistant coaching position. Not that he is probably not deserving of another shot at HC at some point, but based on what I saw in the local press day in and day out Mora lacks some maturity and lost the locker room and respect of the players before he was fired. He became buddy buddy with Michael Vick which in hindsight was a massive mistake and misjudgement of character. He seemed to go too easy as time went on and lacked discipline, or so it seemed. Given that Washington should be a prime destination to coach at, why would you select a retread loser like Mora? Williams and about half a dozen other people I can think of off the top of my head would be better choices. If this comes to pass then I think all Redskins fans seriously have to question Snyder and Cerratio, ie the front office and this organization. If this did come to pass then they do not know what they are doing.

Williams is kind of a retread loser too. He is a less successful Jim Mora, Jr. - except for the fact that he is already here.

[Stadium-Armory]

I think its clear that Mora was more sucessful as a HC than GW was. Wins for sure. And the team liked him. Just sayin..

[nneece]

That's fine. Personally, I want Williams, but in all honesty I don't know how well Williams will do. He almost singlehandedly alienated the fans and players last year. He's always been a stubborn coach, with a my way or no way style, something that has been apparent to me since day 1. What I mean is that, he's been hard pressed to try to prove that what he does works, for instance, staying in a Tampa 2 coverage when our personnel is obviously not built for that and the opposing team is eating our defense alive.

Mora Jr. is only unproven because we say he is. But he's got a solid history as a D-Coord and seems to be a pretty solid DC. He helped the Falcons D go from dead last, to 14th his first season coaching them and the Falcons had 48 sacks which led the league. He helped turn the 49ers into a solid defense, he had Seattle's secondary playing very well this past season, where they were a very poor secondary the year prior.

I'm not pushing for Mora as HC, I'd love to see GW, but I'd rather see a winning coach and if that winning coach happens to be Jim Mora Jr. then so be it. But right now, they are both unproven HC candidates and the jury will be out on either of them until they start coaching whatever team they end up coaching.

Agreed. Maybe Williams is not the ideal HC but neither is Mora Jr. If this is the case then it is time to go back to the drawing board and look at additional candidates.

[nneece]

I think its clear that Mora was more sucessful as a HC than GW was. Wins for sure. And the team liked him. Just sayin..

Yeah, well that is mostly incorrect. Mora took the team from 5-11 to 11-5 his first year, BUT- Vick had a broken leg the season before when Reeves was fired. Hence the 5-11 finish. After that first season of success when the Falcons went to Green Bay and beat them in the playoffs, they went on a downhill descent. The last 2 seasons they lost 7 in a row each during crunch time down the stretch. Prior to Mora getting fired, there was daily talk in the press about how he had become to buddy buddy with Vick, the players, etc. and lost the respect and the command of the locker room. The Deangelo Hall incident I mentioned earlier was an example of that. It is well known that McKay and Blank hired Mora because he was a first time coach who they would be able to pull the strings over. If that is what Snyder is looking for then he may have found his ideal candidate. I'm not totally saying that Mora is a bad guy and shouldn't deserve a chance to HC again, but now is not the time. He needs 2 to 3 more years seasoning as an Assistant before he gets a shot again in my mind. The Skins can do much better.

[clubisyohankovic]

Given that Washington should be a prime destination to coach at, why would you select a retread loser like Mora? Williams and about half a dozen other people I can think of off the top of my head would be better choices.

If you're calling Mora a retread loser, why wouldn't you characterize Williams the same way? Mora had a much higher winning pct as a head coach, right?

[clubisyohankovic]

Screw Mora...he stinks as a HC. I don't want that punk anywhere near this franchise. He will ruin Campbell and run this franchise into the ground.

Do you think he'll try to get Campbell into dogfighting?

[Larry Gude]

...then I think all Redskins fans seriously have to question Snyder and Cerratio, ie the front office and this organization. If this did come to pass then they do not know what they are doing.

Then? THEN??

Let me get this straight; After firing one coach with three games to go, partially because he wouldn't start the personal pick of the 'GM', Jeff George, then bribing a college coach to come in and take a job he didn't want, then hiring another guy because the guy said publicly he'd never work for you, bringing in Dion Sanders of all people, after bribing a hall of fame coach out of retirement, having Pepper Rogers, with zero NFL experience, as a NFL how to 'guru', after all of this, playing at GM, winning the Superbowl every April, we're supposed to suddenly start having concerns about management just because he hires Jim Mora?

This is Dan Snyder's team and he can do whatever he damn well pleases including make draft picks, be pals with the players, be the GM, the head coach, the trainer or anything else he likes. However, just to be fair, Mora may not be the best pick of all time, but in light of the last nearly decade, it counts as improvement around here. It seems that choosing him would be based on actual football considerations instead of the myriad other considerations of the past and that's a good thing as a fan.

[nneece]

Then? THEN??

Let me get this straight; After firing one coach with three games to go, partially because he wouldn't start the personal pick of the 'GM', Jeff George, then bribing a college coach to come in and take a job he didn't want, then hiring another guy because the guy said publicly he'd never work for you, bringing in Dion Sanders of all people, after bribing a hall of fame coach out of retirement, having Pepper Rogers, with zero NFL experience, as a NFL how to 'guru', after all of this, playing at GM, winning the Superbowl every April, we're supposed to suddenly start having concerns about management just because he hires Jim Mora?

This is Dan Snyder's team and he can do whatever he damn well pleases including make draft picks, be pals with the players, be the GM, the head coach, the trainer or anything else he likes. However, just to be fair, Mora may not be the best pick of all time, but in light of the last nearly decade, it counts as improvement around here. It seems that choosing him would be based on actual football considerations instead of the myriad other considerations of the past and that's a good thing as a fan.

Recent history, ie- bringing Gibbs back, has shown that Snyder has tried to move in the right direction. Let's string 2 good decisions together and hire a good replacement for Gibbs. Mora Jr. is not that man. I 100% believe this team needs to hire a GM and fire Cerratio, but apparently that is not going to happen...

[Larry Gude]

Recent history, ie- bringing Gibbs back, has shown that Snyder has tried to move in the right direction. Let's string 2 good decisions together and hire a good replacement for Gibbs. Mora Jr. is not that man. I 100% believe this team needs to hire a GM and fire Cerratio, but apparently that is not going to happen...

I think he has been trying to move in the right direction from day one but effort and results are two different things.

Bringing Gibbs back was not successful; losing record, under-performing teams, especially on offense. Joe's return is the centerpiece of the dysfunction central to the team today. Joe even said at the resignation conference that he wanted to try something different (the beauraucracy he built) instead of what he did the first time and Joe said it didn't work. So, we never even got Joe Gibbs, the coach, in the first place. And if you don't agree that Joe coming back was a mistake then listen to more words from the man himself; he thinks the team is on the right track. If so, Snyder would have promoted Gregg that day, told Saunders to stick around and everyone get some rest because next year is coming fast.

If you still disagree, look at the cap chaos we have looming along with the questions marks in terms of players that can't even begin to be addressed as long as the new coach is up in the air. New direction? Old direction but better? Combination direction?

Joe Gibbs the HOF coach was the product of a demanding owner as was Bobby Beathard; win or get fired. That's not nice. That's not family friendly, that's not a way any of us would like our children to be treated. It is, however, how success is achieved in the NFL.

Look at what it cost people like Andy Reid and Tony Dungy. Look how tough it was on Joe the first time around. It's a tough, brutal job. You have to treat your players like farm animals; produce or beat it. It consumes people and it's not for every body.

Joe sold tickets. He didn't win football games and that is fine. They were an entertaining, exciting, frustrating, interesting team the last four years.

All I am saying is Mora seems to be a 'football' decision; not some left field shocker, not a reinvent the wheel and recapture old glory choice like Gibbs who would have never come back if not for the mountain of cash, not a 'I dare you' pick like Marty who was actually getting the job done and got canned, not a 'how cool is this choice like Spurrier who had to be talked into the job.

Mora, I think you are right, isn't a good pick and will alienate the fan base and means, likely, a starting over of the whole team.

If you want a Joe Gibbs I, then you hire a young hungry assistant, like Gibbs was, and you hire a young hungry personnel genius in training. You want Gibbs and Beathard before they become Gibbs and Beathard and that is the one thing Snyder does seem interested in.

So, a move in the right direction? Anh. The guy is making a fortune.

Seems to be doing fine.

[voicekiller]

Mora would be a great hire, just because a lot of you are biased to what you want doesn't make it the right move

[Stadium-Armory]

Yeah, well that is mostly incorrect. Mora took the team from 5-11 to 11-5 his first year, BUT- Vick had a broken leg the season before when Reeves was fired. Hence the 5-11 finish. After that first season of success when the Falcons went to Green Bay and beat them in the playoffs, they went on a downhill descent. The last 2 seasons they lost 7 in a row each during crunch time down the stretch. Prior to Mora getting fired, there was daily talk in the press about how he had become to buddy buddy with Vick, the players, etc. and lost the respect and the command of the locker room. The Deangelo Hall incident I mentioned earlier was an example of that. It is well known that McKay and Blank hired Mora because he was a first time coach who they would be able to pull the strings over. If that is what Snyder is looking for then he may have found his ideal candidate. I'm not totally saying that Mora is a bad guy and shouldn't deserve a chance to HC again, but now is not the time. He needs 2 to 3 more years seasoning as an Assistant before he gets a shot again in my mind. The Skins can do much better.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said. Except that what I said is incorrect

All I said is that he was more sucessful than GW as a head coach. And I was guaguing that sucess by record (and making the playoffs). Not saying any of that other stuff isn't true, only that he was (loosly defined) more sucessful that GW as a HC. And that the players liked him - but your'e right, that's probalby a bad thing.