New Hampshire District Admits Ron Paul Votes Not Counted

[Ken]

There hasn't been a voting method that hasn't been subjected to some sort of fraud. That doesn't mean everytime an election has been held that fraud (especially to a level to change the out come of the election) has occurred.

I have no doubt that the machines can be tampered with. I'm just saying that there isn't any evidence that it was done so in this case.

Now, do you want to point out what is dumb about my post?

The evidence is still being gathered.

I'm guaranteeing they will find some. I promise you. The indications are all there, Bev Harris who uncovered the Diebold scandal originally thinks so as well.

BTW, I don't mean to jump down your throat about this, I'm a little fired up over this....

[Spaceman Spiff]

Isn't that the point?

It is people like him and the people who support him that rig this stuff.

BTW, Obama was cheated yesterday as well...

So you're a big fan of voting the right way and having everything on the up and up until one of the "bad guys" gets butt****ed.

Awesome :thumbsup:

[PeterMP]

The evidence is still being gathered.

I'm guaranteeing they will find some. I promise you. The indications are all there, Bev Harris who uncovered the Diebold scandal originally thinks so as well.

BTW, I don't mean to jump down your throat about this, I'm a little fired up over this....

Well, good luck unless you have your own exit polls because I've seen several sets of exit polls, and they all back up the final results within a statistically small margin.

If you have your own exit poll, I'll happily look at the data for you.

By the way normally you gather the information to back up your claims, and then you release them w/ the evidence. Not start making claims that you can't back up, and then claim you will find the evidence later.

[GibbsFactor]

Well, good luck unless you have your own exit polls because I've seen several sets of exit polls, and they all back up the final results within a statistically small margin.

If you have your own exit poll, I'll happily look at the data for you.

By the way normally you gather the information to back up your claims, and then you release them w/ the evidence. Not start making claims that you can't back up, and then claim you will find the evidence later.

Which exist polls are you using as reference?

[PeterMP]

Which exist polls are you using as reference?

Here's one http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21225995/

[TrumanB]

Doesn't this still leave Paul with 8% of the vote and a 5th place finish. In other words, he's still a loser. :laugh:

[The_cavalierman]

I can't believe we have the nerve to criticize elections in other countries when ours are never done right.

This should be a priority to fix and make transparent

[freakofthesouth]

Doesn't this still leave Paul with 8% of the vote and a 5th place finish. In other words, he's still a loser. :laugh:

**** you truman. That is not funny.

[GibbsFactor]

Doesn't this still leave Paul with 8% of the vote and a 5th place finish. In other words, he's still a loser. :laugh:

Sure, if it just happened in this one place. What if the others are inflated. What if it isn't just negative for Paul? What if someone else lost votes?

Who cares? It's only the essense of this country. Facts are facts. Paul has been beaten on unlike any other candidate this year. Sure he has some different ideas from the rest, but isn't that the point of having a selection?

You deserve to be robbed of your vote.

[Larry]

I can't believe we have the nerve to criticize elections in other countries when ours are never done right.

This should be a priority to fix and make transparent

Right, we should stick to criticizing our own. (Without any basis.)

-----

Do I support transparancy and accountability? Absolutely.

"Larry's plan" for electronic voting is: Every machine has a receipt printer that prints the machine's number, the voter's serial number, and (in plain English) who he voted for. The printer (which must be an impact printer) is loaded with carbonless paper that makes an original and a copy. The voter gets the original. The printer retains the carbon.

When the machines get read, the county (or whoever) publishes, on their web site, the total vote count for each individual machine. (And the county's total).

Two weeks after the election, the county picks a CPA firm at random, and pays them to pick, say, 5% of the machines at random, go over the carbon printout from that machine, and verify that what's on the carbon matches the electronic total.

If 5% of the machines printed records match exactly with the electronic totals, then it's a safe bet that the other 95% haven't been compromised.

After the audit, the paper receipts become public records. If the local paper (or one of the political parties) wants to hire people to read the paper trail for every single machine in the county, they can knock themselves out. If Joe Citizen saved his receipt, and he wants to verify that "his vote" is correctly recorded on the machine's copy, then that's his right.

The voter verifies that what's on his receipt matches the buttons he pushed. The carbon assures that the retained copy matches the voter's copy. The audit verifies that the electronic total matches the carbon copy.

Do I think the way to get that accountability is to yell "Fraud!", with no evidence whatsoever, every time the word "Diebold" appears anywhere in an election? No.

[footballhenry]

This country's election process is a joke in so many ways :doh: . So much corruption, and yet so much blind obedience to those that corrupt the system; its quite depressing.

Some "democracy"...

[SUSkinsFan]

You are an idiot.

If you don't understand the importance of the integrity of our elections, then please move to Cuba.

This is essential to being an American.

Dude, political science major right here, and it was meant as a joke. Now, show me evidence that there was wide spread enough vote fraud to actually influence the outcome of the election then I will be concerned. In every single election there are votes not counted and I do not agree with it, however, Paul's votes not being counted in no way impacted how he finished in NH.

I don't want to sound like I don't value voting in this country, because I do and I wish more people would do it. It's good news that this was found early, but the votes that weren't counted did not effect how Paul finished in NH so I'm not going to get up in arms about it.

[jbooma]

Problem with the conspiracy theories regarding the different results of electronic vs hand count ballots is that the hand count and the electronic counts aren't counting the same votes.

OK, District X has hand counting, and Fred Flintstone gets X1% of the vote.

In district Y, which has touch screens, he gets Y1% of the vote.

Does this prove "the touch screens are rigged"? Or does it prove that Fred Flintstone did better in one district than he did in the other?

Is it me or would it make more sense to have a state either all electronic or all hand count??

[SUSkinsFan]

Is it me or would it make more sense to have a state either all electronic or all hand count??

Until a foolproof was of doing it electronically is found it needs to be done by hand so there is a record of the votes cast.

[Stophovr6]

Last time I went to vote, there was the option of using an elelctronic machine. I took the paper...

[GibbsFactor]

Dude, political science major right here, and it was meant as a joke. Now, show me evidence that there was wide spread enough vote fraud to actually influence the outcome of the election then I will be concerned. In every single election there are votes not counted and I do not agree with it, however, Paul's votes not being counted in no way impacted how he finished in NH.

I don't want to sound like I don't value voting in this country, because I do and I wish more people would do it. It's good news that this was found early, but the votes that weren't counted did not effect how Paul finished in NH so I'm not going to get up in arms about it.

So far, Paul has gotten 56 additional votes from just two townships. That's only because both townships listed him at 0 and locals caught it. It won't change the results but what if Paul actually finished third? Hopefully both cases were mistakes and they are the only two cases.

Just remember, we're extra sensitive right now and some that support Paul are already disenfranchised severely. So some of Paul's supporters are a bit more "edgy" then normal.

[SUSkinsFan]

Last time I went to vote, there was the option of using an elelctronic machine. I took the paper...

The first time I ever voted was in a town election and the voting machine was roughly the size of a refrigerator and when you pulled the lever to vote you could hear all the gears turning. It was something. My first state/national election was the 2006 midterms and I voted on the electronic machine. I don't think I had the option for a paper ballot.

[SUSkinsFan]

So far, Paul has gotten 56 additional votes from just two townships. That's only because both townships listed him at 0 and locals caught it. It won't change the results but what if Paul actually finished third? Hopefully both cases were mistakes and they are the only two cases.

Just remember, we're extra sensitive right now and some that support Paul are already disenfranchised severely. So some of Paul's supporters are a bit more "edgy" then normal.

Like I said it's great that this was caught and corrected. Hopefully it was only 2 incidents and won't happen again.

[Predicto]

This definitely should be looked into, but no one should jump to conclusions until they have more information than this article provides.

[TrumanB]

**** you truman. That is not funny.

Careful now.

You may not have found my post funny, but it is true. We're talking about a few dozen votes here that occurred due to a mistake. And it did nothing that would change Paul' 5th place finish. You guys need to look elsewhere to blame his poor finish. Perhaps the good doctor's message and ideas just don't resonate with most folks.

[PeterMP]

Until a foolproof was of doing it electronically is found it needs to be done by hand so there is a record of the votes cast.

Doing it by hand doesn't offer a great advantage. There was plenty of fraud w/ paper ballots. It is easy to "lose", "find", or "substitute" paper ballots.

People act like voting fraud in this country is new and part of some grand conspiracy. I have no doubt it is as old as the country itself.

Now, I'm not excusing it, but in this case based on exit polls (and pre-election polls in the case of RP), there is no evidence that there was substantial fraud in the NH primary.

[Ken]

In case anyone was wondering, here is a good video that touches on the problems in NH and really anywhere with these machines. Keep in mind that this is the same machine used in Kenya that caused the people to revolt!

[Ken]

New England voting machine firm has executive criminal record

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/71236.html

LHS Executive Ken Hajjar: "I mean, I don't pay attention to every little law. It's just, it's up to the Registrars [election officials]

1-9-08: New England voting machine firm has executive criminal record

They program every single voting machine in New Hampshire, Connecticut, almost all of Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine. But did state officials in five New England states ever do a criminal background check on this company's executives? Do the laws of these five states even ALLOW them to hire convicted criminals for services paid for by the state? What about over 500 local towns and municipalities?

According to my sources, LHS Marketing and Sales Director Ken Hajjar grew up with owner John Silvestro in Lawrence, Massachusetts. They both moved to Londonderry, New Hampshire, where Ken Hajjar was arrested, indicted, and pleaded guilty to "sale / CND" and sentenced to 12 months in the Rockingham County Correctional facility, and fined $2000. As things go for the politically connected, he was then given a deferred sentence and $1000 of his fine was suspended.

Hajjar doesn't limit his involvement in the voting machine business to sales. According to an interview conducted by Brad Friedman, Hajjar totes memory cards around in the trunk of his car and defends the boggling concept of swapping out memory cards during the middle of elections.

Hold onto your hats, there's more. Start with this YouTube video, if you haven't already seen it:

Then read this BradBlog story:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5320

Quote

(excerpt)

Other LHS staff members we spoke with, including Mike Carlson and Tom Burge, provided similar comments. They said they would open machines up during an election and swap memory cards as needed. This is illegal under Connecticut law and Deputy Secretary Mara told us she has since informed LHS that such actions were in violation of Connecticut election laws.

In 2006, as Hajjar argued in favor of their policy to change cards during elections, I asked him about about the laws which govern chain of custody issues. His response: "I mean, I don't pay attention to every little law. It's just, it's up to the Registrars. All we are is a support organization on Election Day".

He said he had three memory cards in the trunk of his car and, in the event they had to be used, the chain of custody issues wouldn't matter since, "once you run the [pre-election] test deck through, you're golden".

Black Box Voting has sent out 10 freedom of information requests, called "right to know requests" in New Hampshire, and public records requests elsewhere.

Hajjar's conviction was in 1987, but we have asked also for complaints filed on a threat allegedly made in recent years to a New Hampshire woman, and any other reports for Hajjar or LHS owner John Silvestro.

Until recently, LHS employees were listed on the company Web site. Now the pages identifying who programs New England voting machines have been taken down.

We want to know.

We want to know exactly what the secretaries of state/commonwealth know about LHS Associates.

Did they know of Hajjar's criminal background? If so, why's he toting voting machine cards around in the trunk of his car in case they are "needed" in live elections, and if not, why not?

Link to Kenneth Hajjar criminal record:

http://www.bbvdocs.org/LHS/hajjar.png

VOTING MACHINES - SKILLFULLY MANIPULATED - LEAVE NO EVIDENCE

The famous "Hursti Hack" of the memory card in the voting system version used in New Hampshire preloaded the card with minus and plus votes, passed the "zero test" at the beginning of the day, and after 6 no and 2 yes votes were fed through it, pronounced election totals of 7 yes and 1 no. Yes, these are the cards Hajjar totes in trunk.

Good news for the citizens of Connecticut. According to Brad Friedman, Hajjar was booted out of the state after he posted "You're full of ****" on BradBlog, a liberal political site that does kick-ass voting machine stories.

Whether Hajjar works in Connecticut or not, he works at LHS, and it is inside the Methuen, Massachusetts-based factory that the memory cards are programmed for Connecticut and the rest of New England.

[skinfan133]

No one cares because it didn't effect the outcome.

Sutton had something like 400 votes cast. They were focused on counting the right number of people that got over a hundard and were deciding the election. I'll tell you what -Lets assume HALF of all Paul Votes were not properly counted.

Double his vote count.

That puts him in 4th place? Or 3rd - Well behind 1st and 2nd.

It hardly puts the "Whole proccess" in doubt as you state.

doesn't matter, we're talking about the democratic process here. saying only some people votes count is more or less authoritarianism

[Teller]

There's not a single legitimate news source reporting this story. And there's ZERO mention of it on the Paul campaign's official website.

I swear. The internet is the single WORST development in terms of trying to have an informed populus. It's disturbing when seemingly intelligent people fall prey to any Tom, Dick or Jane with a website, and quote it as gospel truth without anything legitimate to back it up/

I searched about 10 variations of "paul vote count, paul votes new hampshire, ron paul vote tallies," etc., not one link to a legit source, a comment from the candidate, nothing.

Continue the outrageous claims if you choose, but in situations like these, the onus is on the OP to prove their position beyond a resonable doubt. You have not accomplished that, freak.

Come on. The slightest allegation of voter intimidation, founded or otherwise, was national news during the last presidential election. Do you really expect me to believe that if stacks of votes simply aren't being counted, not one REAL news source would pick up the story.

I call bull****.