da#1skinsfan Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Its a hell of a lot different for a TE to understand an offense vs a QB. A QB has to know where each and every person is on the field. He has to understand their routes, the timing of their routes, how much time he is going to get based on certain matchups and how that changes throughout a game. I could go on and on and on and on. To say a (insert position here) can get an offense in a year, why cant a QB, is just about the most ignorant thing I've read on here. I take that back, Ive read worse. However its still pretty bad. And for the record, keep Saunders, keep Campbell. This franchise needs continuity. Campbell has started 20 f'ng games guys, and Saunders is one of the most prolific OC's in the game. Things dont happen overnight, give it more than a partial season, will ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 you mean his what 6th offense in 7 years and the highly complex vertical timing based system? He always has ran a horizontal style of offense. But you dont get that? :laugh: Although Al's offense is complex, many players on offense understand it completely. JC's just not progressing as fast as the other players on offense mentally. Wait, I'm being a racist again. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 He starts and he eventually becomes the franchise player of the Redskins. If Saunders goes, and I don't see that happening, then I see Campbell remaining our QB for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/29/AR2005052900872.htmlYup.. I'm a racist and Al Saunders offense is impossible to understand. Chris Cooley just happens to be the next Einstein, which is why he gets it. so we trust these unnammed sources instead of doug williams and sherrill? Oh i get it now? Unnammed sources can be anyone who is willing to speak to JLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 wrong...is this a habit with you?The dig on Young even before being drafted was his arm...specifically the side armed nature of his mechanics. Wrong... is this a habit with you? Although his mechanics were problematic, the biggest issue with him coming into the draft was the mental aspect of being a quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Although Al's offense is complex, many players on offense understand it completely. JC's just not progressing as fast as the other players on offense mentally. Wait, I'm being a racist again. :doh: Do you understand the game of football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricucci Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 He's our QB, Collins won't be back will get more elsewhere. Campbell was having a good first full season, we forget Collins had Moss, Portis and Randel El at their best. A smart coach has Campbell running the team next year. Compare Jason's numbers with many qb's throughout the league. His #'s were better than 1/2 of the nfc qbs and about 9 afc qbs that in the top 35% of the league in his first full year. People need to chill out on Jason Campbell. He's not Dan Marion or Tom Brady but is going to be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Although Al's offense is complex, many players on offense understand it completely. JC's just not progressing as fast as the other players on offense mentally. Wait, I'm being a racist again. :doh: You know a QB has to know both the protection schemes and playbook too right? Where is this quote by Cooley written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Its a hell of a lot different for a TE to understand an offense vs a QB. A QB has to know where each and every person is on the field. He has to understand their routes, the timing of their routes, how much time he is going to get based on certain matchups and how that changes throughout a game. I suppose you haven't read the article I'm refering to then. Chris Cooley said he knew ALL of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Do you understand the game of football? Do you not understand that Cooley said he could play the QB position in this offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voicekiller Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Don't worry, you've distinguished yourself on a number of occasions as someone whose opinion we should pretty much ignore.Only someone with no clue about football 'doesn't like' a system that probably had a 5 year cumulative ranking of 1-3 in the league. Honestly, I don't think you could describe the problem you have with the offense aside from the brain-dead appellation of "dink and dunk." That offense certainly is not that. Perhaps some of you guys missed the deep plays we had. Imagine if we had a legitimate star #1 threat at WR and (if you choose) if Campbell can 'get it' in order to get the ball to his receivers. And so have you...so to get the insults out of the way... I liked his system in KC and actually I was very excited when he came here, but since he has been here his system has done nothing for me...we have had 3 different starting QB's in 4 years and only one with 8 years in his system knew what he was doing and he is a 37 year old on his way out...All it has done was to confuse and put little confidence for Jason our (for now) franchise Qb...we have gone to 3 playoff games and won 1, we barely had a winning record this year, a losing record last year, and squeeked in in 05...i am sorry if i have very little to no confidence in a system that hasn't materialized production since he has been here. I am not a fan of the dink and dunk style of offense i like the deep threat offense, but i am also a big fan of a running game, as Joe used to say we win with balence...I like a balenced attack, We don't have a #1 deep threat Moss is good and all but this offense needs more...if you enjoy the mediocrity of the offensive production we have had in the last 3 years then fine i understand how you can like this system, but so far it has produced nothing except confusion, and a 37 year olds last chance at some glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You know a QB has to know both the protection schemes and playbook too right? Where is this quote by Cooley written? I don't have it bookmarked but it's on ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 so we trust these unnammed sources instead of doug williams and sherrill? Oh i get it now? Unnammed sources can be anyone who is willing to speak to JLC. Since these sources have been right about JC, yes, I think we can trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voicekiller Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 What makes you come to such a conclusion? Perhaps you forget that Gregg Williams was partly responsable for the Al Saunders hiring, telling Gibbs he was the most difficult OC to play against.Ok my dislike for Saunders system aside...mainly because of what i said above It just seems to me that Al and Gregg aren't the best of friends, and i hope i am wrong if Gregg is hired the HC and Al is given the reigns as the OC without any influence from outside sources i hope it works out...as i said above i was excited when Al was hired but in the past three years i am very aprehensive about his system, it hasn't really produced except when a guy who was in his system for 8 years took the reigns...I actually like Al but I am sorry his system scares me for the future, it doesn't seem to be working with this team...see above for more...i don't want to keep repeating myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 He's our QB, Collins won't be back will get more elsewhere. Campbell was having a good first full season, we forget Collins had Moss, Portis and Randel El at their best. A smart coach has Campbell running the team next year. Compare Jason's numbers with many qb's throughout the league. His #'s were better than 1/2 of the nfc qbs and about 9 afc qbs that in the top 35% of the league in his first full year. People need to chill out on Jason Campbell. He's not Dan Marion or Tom Brady but is going to be very good. Don't get me wrong, I hope Jason Campbell at least gets a fair chance instead of getting Ramsied by the next coach, but Campbell ranked 20th in terms of QB rating. I don't see how Campbell was in the top 35%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthemboys Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i understand how you can like this system, but so far it has produced nothing except confusion, and a 37 year olds last chance at some glory What makes you so sure Todd will not be the starter next season? The system had me doubting as well, until I saw it run correctly :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/29/AR2005052900872.htmlYup.. I'm a racist and Al Saunders offense is impossible to understand. Chris Cooley just happens to be the next Einstein, which is why he gets it. The link was from May 2005. Saunder's wasn't even here yet and it has nothing to say about or from CC. Imagining your real intent.....the potential criticisms in tehe article do not relate to Campbell's IQ...they speak to the talent he had around him at Auburn....with the implication that SOME felt that compensated for his possible limitations as a QB. Now you may be quite right in implying Joe Gibbs was/is a dumb arse who, even after visiting Campbell and spending time with him, simply could not discern a "below average intelligence". Your whole argument is simplistic in the extreme - perhaps JC isn't the only one with intellectual short comings. What does Cooley "get"? the philosophy? memorized every play? that timing matters? CC is one out of how many offensive players who didn't say the same? and yet you believe that is conclusive? And is that the same as what a QB needs to "get"? Are you implying Collins is also "below average intelligence" because he stated it takes several seasons to learn AS's system? you'll have to do better than that. and you have no idea what JC's intellectual abilities are...why make stupid assertions like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Since these sources have been right about JC, yes, I think we can trust them. how bout no? http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2007-05-27-sw-jason-campbell_N.htm http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=green_jeremy&id=3067333&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dgreen_jeremy%26id%3d3067333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Some scouts are skeptical about Campbell's ability to read complex NFL defenses and to learn to hit secondary receivers. Teams were worried about his score on the Wonderlic test' date=' an exam given to NFL players to test their [b']cognitive[/b] skills in which quarterbacks are expected to score particularly high."My biggest worry with Campbell was with the mental aspect," said one AFC team executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We think it would have taken him a long time to learn our system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The link was from May 2005. Saunder's wasn't even here yet and it has nothing to say about or from CC. Imagining your real intent.....the potential criticisms in tehe article do not relate to Campbell's IQ...they speak to the talent he had around him at Auburn....with the implication that SOME felt that compensated for his possible limitations as a QB. Now you may be quite right in implying Joe Gibbs was/is a dumb arse who, even after visiting Campbell and spending time with him, simply could not discern a "below average intelligence".and you have no idea what JC's intellectual abilities are...why make stupid assertions like that? In the event that you weren't aware - intelligence is a part of cognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 voice, Thank you for trying to respond in some detail. I know we're all a little tired of debates but it just seemed you were getting one-track or something and not elaborating. So thanks for that. But you said "last 3 years." Um, we've only had Al for two years and for more than half that we had a QB who couldn't run the offense either due to youth or lack of ability and for 9 games we had a terrible QB who was never a pocket QB. Not Al's fault. How did you think Betts had huge holes last year? That's Saunders impact on this offense. Why do you think Portis doesn't look like he did in Denver? Well, aside from Alex Gibbs-style blocking, Gibbs tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. We hAVE a balanced offense. The league is different now. Did you see last week? not one 100 yard rusher. There's a reason. The run is easier to stop now when you gear up for it. The league is oriented around the pass and it's harder to defend consistently. even bad teams can look good here and there. It's not like we pass so much more than running and half the time people complain that we 'run-run-pass.' Well, if you pass and the QB can't read the play and you're in 2nd and long, that means at least one more pass unless you get a lucky run. That's how it works. But I don't think this offense IS dink and dunk or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 In the event that you weren't aware - intelligence is a part of cognition. oh right the wonderlic score determines everything to you. its a joke. I had to take it before interviewing for a job. Why? A number of QB that are great had scores below JC and alot of ****ty QB are higher than him. Whats your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 oh right the wonderlic score determines everything to you. its a joke. I had to take it before interviewing for a job. Why? A number of QB that are great had scores below JC and alot of ****ty QB are higher than him. Whats your point? Were you oblivious to the fact that someone was insinuating I was a racist for regurgitating what an AFC executive said about JC (i.e. that he was mentally slow)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Its funny you keep brining up reports when he was drafted. You cant seem to find anymore. Scouts are wrong you know. Those same scouts that mention player X cant get drafted but come a star in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Its funny you keep brining up reports when he was drafted. You cant seem to find anymore. Scouts are wrong you know. Those same scouts that mention player X cant get drafted but come a star in the league The excerpt I provided entails Al's problems with JC, yet he keeps getting blasted for Jason's mental limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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