What Happens to Campbell if we lose Al saunders (M.E.T.)

[skinfan2k]

The excerpt I provided entails Al's problems with JC, yet he keeps getting blasted for Jason's mental limitations.

no where does it mentioned AL's problem with JC. You must be right because you know everything :laugh:

[taylorcoreskin]

no where does it mentioned AL's problem with JC. You must be right because you know everything :laugh:

Guess no one ever ****ed about Al handcuffing JC for no reason. Guess no one complained about the playcalling being more innovative with Todd in the game. :doh:

[taylorcoreskin]

no where does it mentioned AL's problem with JC. You must be right because you know everything :laugh:

Some scouts are skeptical about Campbell's ability to read complex NFL defenses and to learn to hit secondary receivers. Teams were worried about his score on the Wonderlic test' date=' an exam given to NFL players to test their [b']cognitive[/b] skills in which quarterbacks are expected to score particularly high.

"My biggest worry with Campbell was with the mental aspect," said one AFC team executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We think it would have taken him a long time to learn our system."

[skinfan2k]

i dont see al saunders name mentioned in that? Do you?

[taylorcoreskin]

i dont see al saunders name mentioned in that? Do you?

Does his name have to be mentioned for him to be combating JC's limitations as described in the excerpt?

[skinfan2k]

Does his name have to be mentioned for him to be combating JC's limitations as described in the excerpt?

Ah Yes!! These reports are after the draft and totally discounting all the work that he has put in the last 3 years, but you dont care.

[DieselPwr44]

"It was too much for Campbell or any young quarterback," Vermeil said. "The volume is so great. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders did the right thing -- restrict the package to fit his maturity. They aren't running the entire offense right now. Watch. At the start of next season, Jason will be much better than he is now because he'll get more reps in this offense."

[taylorcoreskin]

Ah Yes!! These reports are after the draft and totally discounting all the work that he has put in the last 3 years, but you dont care.

JC has been putting in the work... and who was right beside him in the offseason? Who was trying to rebuild him into a decent QB? Who was refining his mechanics and trying to get JC to overcome his mental limitations? To say that Saunders had a fully competent QB in JC is plain stupid.

How much longer will Saunders have to put up with JC's mental limitations? How much more heat will Saunders take for JC's mental limitations (i.e. people complaining about him handcuffing the offense because JC is taking an inordinate amount of time to learn an NFL calibre system) ?

[voicekiller]

voice,

Thank you for trying to respond in some detail. I know we're all a little tired of debates but it just seemed you were getting one-track or something and not elaborating.

So thanks for that.

But you said "last 3 years."

Um, we've only had Al for two years and for more than half that we had a QB who couldn't run the offense either due to youth or lack of ability and for 9 games we had a terrible QB who was never a pocket QB.

Not Al's fault.

How did you think Betts had huge holes last year? That's Saunders impact on this offense. Why do you think Portis doesn't look like he did in Denver? Well, aside from Alex Gibbs-style blocking, Gibbs tried to fit a square peg into a round hole.

We hAVE a balanced offense. The league is different now. Did you see last week? not one 100 yard rusher. There's a reason. The run is easier to stop now when you gear up for it. The league is oriented around the pass and it's harder to defend consistently. even bad teams can look good here and there.

It's not like we pass so much more than running and half the time people complain that we 'run-run-pass.' Well, if you pass and the QB can't read the play and you're in 2nd and long, that means at least one more pass unless you get a lucky run. That's how it works.

But I don't think this offense IS dink and dunk or

I know its not Al's fault totally, but you can't hold it against me that i am skeptical and unsure about this team with this offense since i really haven't seen it run to its utmost...

I hope i am wrong and if Al stays here he can get the job done and work with the players and make the offenese a powerhouse...but until i see it run well i will be skeptical

[dizzinator53]

He becomes a great QB for the ages either way.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Hey why don't we just give JC 10 years to be in Saunders system like TC was and then decide? Just a thought......

[WorldBFree76]

He will struggle, and be gone as a QB the year after.

[RocketCitySkins]

Cooley said he could play every position on offense after 1 year of learning the Saunders offense. Not Al's fault the QB's level of intelligence is below average.

I know I'm an Auburn homer, but I've tried to be fair about Jason's physical talents. He does have a slow release, he doesn't protect the ball and he runs out of the pocket a lot. However, I have to defend him when I see a statement like this that is just so absolutely false. He graduated college in less than 4 years with a 3.0 GPA. He was on the dean's list multiple times through high school. He's had to learn 6 different offenses in 7 years. Don't like him as a quarterback, but there's not a damn thing wrong with his intellegence.

[PapaDRoc]

I don't think that there is any debate as to whether Campbell is going to be our starter next year regardless of who is coaching the offense......

He could compete with Collins during training camp, but there is just no way that he will not be starting the opener next season.

However, I do think that the Skins keeping Saunders is essential to Campbell's progression, and I hope JC learned a ton from Collins during our playoff run....

[SearchHorizon]

I know I'm an Auburn homer, but I've tried to be fair about Jason's physical talents. He does have a slow release, he doesn't protect the ball and he runs out of the pocket a lot. However, I have to defend him when I see a statement like this that is just so absolutely false. He graduated college in less than 4 years with a 3.0 GPA. He was on the dean's list multiple times through high school. He's had to learn 6 different offenses in 7 years. Don't like him as a quarterback, but there's not a damn thing wrong with his intellegence.

Academic smarts is different than "athletic smarts."

[PapaDRoc]

Academic smarts is different than "athletic smarts."

He had to learn a new offensive system every year that he played at Auburn. Given the success he had in college, I would call that "athletic smart."

Its amazing how quickly everyone jumps on a Redskin that is not on the top of his game (i.e. Portis). I hope JC proves all his critics wrong next season, although it appears some people would rather see him fail.

[RocketCitySkins]

Academic smarts is different than "athletic smarts."

How could Jason not have athletic smarts? He's the son of a football coach. He's lived and breathed football since the day he was born. He and his Dad starting studying his tapes together when he was 7 years old.

We don't know how much of Saunders playbook Jason knows. We just know how much of it he was allowed to run. When Vince Young went out with an injury, the first thing the NFL analyst starting talking about was how now the Titans could run more than 5 different plays. I think it's common with first year starting quarterbacks that the coaches don't open the playbook.

[taylorcoreskin]

I know I'm an Auburn homer, but I've tried to be fair about Jason's physical talents. He does have a slow release, he doesn't protect the ball and he runs out of the pocket a lot. However, I have to defend him when I see a statement like this that is just so absolutely false. He graduated college in less than 4 years with a 3.0 GPA. He was on the dean's list multiple times through high school. He's had to learn 6 different offenses in 7 years. Don't like him as a quarterback, but there's not a damn thing wrong with his intellegence.

Some scouts are skeptical about Campbell's ability to read complex NFL defenses and to learn to hit secondary receivers. Teams were worried about his score on the Wonderlic test' date=' an exam given to NFL players to test their [b']cognitive[/b] skills in which quarterbacks are expected to score particularly high.

"My biggest worry with Campbell was with the mental aspect," said one AFC team executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We think it would have taken him a long time to learn our system."

Jason may be a good student, but his level of intelligence is below average. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[RocketCitySkins]

Jason may be a good student, but his level of intelligence is below average. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh, you're definitely not going to burst my bubble. I've watching every game he's played in for 7 years. You are making your statement based on one wonderlic score which as someone else pointed out, there have been great quarterbacks who scored a lot less and lousy quarterbacks who scored more. I'm basing my opinion on many more facts that I stated above. And commentary of writers and announcers during his career about the level of intellegence he had to have to learn a new offensive system every year. Just the fact that you could say that someone who made the dean's list multiple times and graduated a 4 year college in 3 1/2 years has a below average intellegence is pathetic. Excuse me but it takes cognitive skills to pass college tests also. I'm done. I know what I know and it's based on years of following Jason's career.

[taylorcoreskin]

Oh, you're definitely not going to burst my bubble. I've watching every game he's played in for 7 years. You are making your statement based on one wonderlic score which as someone else pointed out, there have been great quarterbacks who scored a lot less and lousy quarterbacks who scored more. I'm basing my opinion on many more facts that I stated above. And commentary of writers and announcers during his career about the level of intellegence he had to have to learn a new offensive system every year. Just the fact that you could say that someone who made the dean's list multiple times and graduated a 4 year college in 3 1/2 years has a below average intellegence is pathetic. Excuse me but it takes cognitive skills to pass college tests also. I'm done. I know what I know and it's based on years of following Jason's career.

Jason's first wonderlic was a 14. Doesn't get much lower than that. Although he managed to learn collegiate level offenses, it was expected that he would have a lot of trouble learning an NFL calibre offense because of his cognitive limitations. Again, doing well in school isn't always an indication that the person is intelligent.

[eagleskins]

Auburn is a football factory and JC was in shop classes the whole time.

[taylorcoreskin]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/stewart_mandel/04/20/underated.overrated/index.html

Overrated: Jason Campbell' date=' Auburn

There's no denying Campbell was as good as any quarterback in the country his senior season and arguably the most important contributor to the Tigers' 13-0 season. At nearly 6-foot-5 and with a strong release, he's physically impressive. But one strong year shouldn't completely override the three previous, weak ones. [b']For most of his career, Campbell struggled with the mental aspect of the game, making poor decisions and struggling to pick up offensive schemes.[/b] He finally thrived in the West Coast offense employed by his fourth coordinator in as many years, Al Borges, but several of Borges' predecessors found themselves simplifying their playbooks as much as possible to appease Campbell. As SI.com's Peter King reported last week, Campbell scored a less-than-impressive 14 on his first attempt at the Wonderlic test last year. NFL coaches won't have the time or patience to wait another four years for him to grasp a pro offense.

[RocketCitySkins]

You are leaving out half the facts. From USA Today "he then scored a much-improved 28 at the Combine in February."

North Central Regional Educational Library - "Cognitive skills are any mental skills that are used in the process of acquiring knowledge; these skills include reasoning, perception, and intuition"

Again all of these are required to finish a four year college in 3 1/2 years. Jason is not lacking whatsoever in any of these skills.

Jason had no problem in learning the 5 offensive systems before Saunders system including one NFL system. Auburn had successful teams every year that Campbell was at quarterback. Saunders system requires that he unlearn everything he has learned before. Jason's timing has always been to throw to an open receiver. Saunders system is to throw to a receiver before or as he is making his break not after he is open. This isn't a matter of smarts. It's a matter of timing.

[taylorcoreskin]

You are leaving out half the facts. From USA Today "he then scored a much-improved 28 at the Combine in February."

North Central Regional Educational Library - "Cognitive skills are any mental skills that are used in the process of acquiring knowledge; these skills include reasoning, perception, and intuition"

Again all of these are required to finish a four year college in 3 1/2 years. Jason is not lacking whatsoever in any of these skills.

Jason had no problem in learning the 5 offensive systems before Saunders system including one NFL system. Auburn had successful teams every year that Campbell was at quarterback. Saunders system requires that he unlearn everything he has learned before. Jason's timing has always been to throw to an open receiver. Saunders system is to throw to a receiver before or as he is making his break not after he is open. This isn't a matter of smarts. It's a matter of timing.

Cognitive skills aren't something a person either has or doesn't have. If he didn't have ANY ability to reason or perceive, he would be brain-dead. Cognitive skills are measured on a continuum. On the continuum, JC ranks BELOW AVERAGE.

Yes, JC did get a 28 the second time around.

But...

One: he scored a very pedestrian 14 on his Wonderlic test last year' date=' then got it up to 28 this year. Teams are suspicious that he studied for his Wonderlic and the 14 is closer to what his true score is. [/quote']

It is possible to improve on these things, much like the SATs. And why do you think teams were suspicious that the score of 14 was a better reflection of his level of cognitive skills? Why didn't teams give him the benefit of the doubt? They likely interviewed him and concluded that he wasn't nearly as intelligent as an average score of 28 would indicate.

[squatch66]

if saunders leaves then jason learns a new offense.