What Happens to Campbell if we lose Al saunders (M.E.T.)

[cuchip703]

dude...I'm a JC supporter....precisely because I see the potential...driven in part by hard work...that you speak to. Also, and tihs is the fan part, I think the team is hosed for 3-4 years if he doesn't pan out.

funny....but for the fans supporting teams still in the playoffs.....fans for other teams that I work with all state unequivocably that they would love to have JC on their team. Does this equate to anything deep? No. But it does mean at some level others a bit less close (i.e., emotional) to the problem see the positives others may be sidestepping.

Not you, FanSinceSonnyJ. Sorry

[skinfan2k]

Anyone in here claiming the wonderlic score has any correlation to a qb's performance may you show us evidence? I am not positive but 99% sure that Dan Marino scored lower than Jason on the wonderlic, but IMO this doesn't matter. Wonderlic scores mean next to nothing, however I myself don't believe JC will ever be a franchise qb, because he horribly inaccurate.

I think he is pretty accurate but players around him were injuired and it took times to get used to small targets. 60% is a good completion percentage. Yes, i would like him to add some touch but he will grow with more experience

[Polo3]

Look guys let me put this to rest for you once and for all....JC will be a Redskin for a loooong time and he will be our starting QB for years to come regardless of who our next coach will be. You guys are killing me thinking that this guy is not good, we all saw what Todd Collins could do when your O-Line cannot protect you and thats pretty much what JC went through all season. Did he makes some mistakes?? Yes but so did Marino, Favre, Brady and Manning. Collins did what a back-up QB was suppose to do, come in and play solid, he is 36yrs old and please don't compare his age to Favre there is noooo comparison..

End of conversation so mods you can now shut down this thread...lol

[Polo3]

Sorry to burst Taylorcoreredskins bubble here but the originial question in this post is all wrong.

It should be: If we lose Al Saunders, what happens to Todd Collins?? Why??

Because Todd's a one trick pony. This offense is the only thing he knows and the only offense where he can get away with having a sub-standard NFL arm.

Todd would be looking for work, not Jason.

I think the above answer is perfect!! now mods you can shut this one down..

[GroundNPound]

Anyone in here claiming the wonderlic score has any correlation to a qb's performance may you show us evidence? I am not positive but 99% sure that Dan Marino scored lower than Jason on the wonderlic, but IMO this doesn't matter. Wonderlic scores mean next to nothing, however I myself don't believe JC will ever be a franchise qb, because he horribly inaccurate.

Dan Marino scored 1 point higher than Campbell on his Wonderlic (15).

[skinfan2k]

Dan Marino scored 1 point higher than Campbell on his Wonderlic (15).

.

Campbell got a 28, 29 on other reported tests

[fansince62]

Anyone in here claiming the wonderlic score has any correlation to a qb's performance may you show us evidence? I am not positive but 99% sure that Dan Marino scored lower than Jason on the wonderlic, but IMO this doesn't matter. Wonderlic scores mean next to nothing, however I myself don't believe JC will ever be a franchise qb, because he horribly inaccurate.

2006:

Matt Leinart, USC - 35

Charlie Whitehurst, Clemson - 33

Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt - 26

Kellen Clemens, Oregon - 26

Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo - 19

Vince Young, Texas - 6, 16 (these are disputed, there are no clear reports of what he actually scored)

Marcus Vick, Virginia Tech - 11

2005:

Ryan Fitzpatick, Harvard - 37, 38, 50

Alex Smith, Utah - 40

Aaron Rodgers, Cal - 39

Jason Campbell, Auburn - 14, 27, 28

Charlie Frye, Akron - 28, 38

Andrew Walter, Arizona State - 31

Kyle Orton, Purdue - 25, 27

Chris Rix, Florida State - 22, 26

Brock Berlin, Miami - 13

2004:

Eli Manning, Ole Miss - 39

Craig Krenzel, Ohio State - 38

J.P. Losman, Tulane - 31, 14

Philip Rivers, N.C. State - 30

Matt Schaub, Virginia - 30

Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio) - 25

Jim "Yes I Will Be Receiving A Super Bowl Ring" Sorgi, Wisconsin - 14

2003:

Drew Henson, Michigan - 42

Tony Romo sits to pee, Eastern Illinois - 30

Rex Grossman, Florida - 29

Kyle Boller, Cal - 27

Carson Palmer, USC - 26

Byron Leftwich, Marshall - 25

Chris Simms, Texas - 22

Seneca Wallace, Iowa State - 12

2002:

Joey Harrington, Oregon - 32

Patrick Ramsey, Tulane - 32

David Carr, Fresno State - 24

David Garrard, East Carolina - 14

2001:

Sage Rosenfels, Iowa State - 32

Jesse Palmer, Florida - 32

Quincy Carter, Georgia - 30 (This has to be a misprint)

Chris Wenke, Florida State - 29

Drew Brees, Purdue - 28

Michael Vick, Virginia Tech - 20

A.J. Feeley, Oregon - 19

2000:

Tom Brady, Michigan - 33

Marc Bulger, West Virginia - 29

Tim Rattay, Louisiana Tech - 27

Chad Pennington, Marshall - 25

Tee Martin, Tennessee - 11

1999:

Cade McNown, UCLA - 28

Akili Smith, Oregon - 37, 15 (apparently many people feel Smith cheated off of his teammate Jason Maas on his first attempt. Maas scored a 43 that same year.)

Shaun King, Tulane - 25

Tim Couch, Kentucky - 22

Daunte Culpepper, Central Florida - 18, 21, 15

Aaron Brooks, Virginia - 17

Donovan McNabb, Syracuse - 16, 12

1998:

Brian Griese, Michigan - 39

Matt Hasselbeck, Boston College - 29

Ryan Leaf, Washington State - 27

Peyton Manning, Tennessee - 25

And here are some other notable scores we found floating around these here internets:

1995:

Kerry Collins, Penn State - 30

Steve McNair, Alcorn State - 15

Kordell Stewart, Colorado - 12

1994:

Trent Dilfer, Fresno State - 22

Heath Shuler, Tennessee - 16 (Dude is a congressman and he only got a 16?)

1993:

Drew Bledsoe, Washington State - 37

Rick Mirer, Notre Dame - 31

Mark Brunell, Washington - 22

Elvis Grbac, Michigan - 16

1992:

David Klingler, Houston - 30

Jeff Blake, East Carolina - 17

1991:

Brett Favre, Southern Miss. - 22

1990:

Neil O'Donnell, Maryland - 13

Jeff George, Illnois - 10

1989:

Troy Aikman, UCLA - 29

1987:

Rich Gannon, Delaware - 27

Vinny Testaverde, Miami - 18

1985:

Randall Cunningham, UNLV - 15

1983:

Dan Marino, Pittsburgh - 14

1982:

Steve Young, BYU - 33

[Oldfan]

F62 -- ....the inference is being made that a generalized ranking of Wonderlic test results correlates to a discrete individual's intellectual abilties -

I find the inference plausible. Testing one's basic math and language skills in a compressed time limit ought to correlate well with intelligence. Besides, the corporations that have used it over the years would certainly expect proof of the claimed correlation of the 20 score to a 100 IQ.

further, that the score is an accurate predictor not only of intellectual ability....but potential for success (especially at the QB position as is being played out in this thread).

The claim I make is that intelligence is obviously a factor when evaluating QB prospects. There are many other factors, some more important -- like the ability to throw an accurate pass -- that have to be weighed into a final grade.

[Oldfan]

Akili Smith, Oregon - 37, 15 (apparently many people feel Smith cheated off of his teammate Jason Maas on his first attempt. Maas scored a 43 that same year.)

Since we're talking about basic math and language skills, Campbell's scores of 14, 27, 28 are hard to explain. If there was some way to teach a person to double their skills in Math and English in short order, the method would revolutionize education systems worldwide.

If scores like this happened often, the test would be junked as worthless.

[skinfan2k]

Since we're talking about basic math and language skills, Campbell's scores of 14, 27, 28 are hard to explain. If there was some way to teach a person to double their skills in Math and English in short order, the method would revolutionize education systems worldwide.

If scores like this happened often, the test would be junked as worthless.

its not basic math and lanaguage skills. You know, how people dont go into that studying and some do. Campbell, the first time may have went in and didn't bother to know the format and asked maybe the first 25-30 questions, and got a 14 on it.

Then the 2nd go around, was his true measure of success.

[fansince62]

I find the inference plausible. Testing one's basic math and language skills in a compressed time limit ought to correlate well with intelligence. Besides, the corporations that have used it over the years would certainly expect proof of the claimed correlation of the 20 score to a 100 IQ.

The claim I make is that intelligence is obviously a factor when evaluating QB prospects. There are many other factors, some more important -- like the ability to throw an accurate pass -- that have to be weighed into a final grade.

sooo...how would a wonderlic correlate to "creative" intelligence in which an individual draws a solution (among many options) from chaas (i.e., a broken play) and successfully executes?

look at those test scores brother Old......they just aren't a good predictor. and, again, no one on this board has established how the "intelligence" tested (let us say math and English, for example) correlate to out passes, deep strikes, sense of timing, checkdown decision, center QB snaps and a million other things that go on throughout the course of a game. now that I'd be interested in!!!

[skinfan2k]

If wonderlic scores were linked to nfl intelligence, then ability to play on the field would not factor in playing, NFL GMs would use wonderlics as a major tool for decisions. But that wasn't the case for marino, young and etc

[Oldfan]

its not basic math and lanaguage skills. You know, how people dont go into that studying and some do. Campbell, the first time may have went in and didn't bother to know the format and asked maybe the first 25-30 questions, and got a 14 on it.

Then the 2nd go around, was his true measure of success.

That doesn't track for me.

The format is simple: answer as many questions as possible in a given time limit. Big NFL bucks could be riding on it -- some teams take the Wonderlik seriously.

[bobzmuda]

Since we're talking about basic math and language skills, Campbell's scores of 14, 27, 28 are hard to explain. If there was some way to teach a person to double their skills in Math and English in short order, the method would revolutionize education systems worldwide.

If scores like this happened often, the test would be junked as worthless.

Why is it hard to explain? He took the test as a junior as part of the scouting process and then he took the test later as a senior.

The simplest and most likely reason is not that his skills doubled over the year, it's just that when he took the test more seriously and sufficiently prepared for it during his later administrations since it was closer to the draft and since his stock had risen considerably over that year.

[skinfan2k]

That doesn't track for me.

The format is simple: answer as many questions as possible in a given time limit. Big NFL bucks could be riding on it -- some teams take the Wonderlik seriously.

take the test and you will find out. What they say normally is that once you read the question, you decide whether you answer it or skip it and you cant come back to the question. They want you to go through the test just once, without loooking over your answers. Its hard, but simpler when you know what is coming like anything in life, and know what your strengths and weaknesses are for the test

[Oldfan]

sooo...how would a wonderlic correlate to "creative" intelligence in which an individual draws a solution (among many options) from chaas (i.e., a broken play) and successfully executes?

Let's not invent terms like "creative intellignce." Intelligence is fundamentally pattern recognition and some people are better at it than others. Cover two is a pattern. The very bright QB recognizes it and, almost instantly knows which defender to read (another pattern), and from that, which option of the play called will open up.

look at those test scores brother Old......they just aren't a good predictor.

How did you figure that? You would first need to quantify the performance factor before studying the correlation with Wonderlik scores.

and, again, no one on this board has established how the "intelligence" tested (let us say math and English, for example) correlate to out passes, deep strikes, sense of timing, checkdown decision, center QB snaps and a million other things that go on throughout the course of a game. now that I'd be interested in!!!

You sly devil. You're trying to give your opponents in an internet debate an impossible burden of proof.

My claim is that the Wonderlik is a fair measure of intelligence and that intelligence is a factor to be weighed when evaluating any football player and even moreso with the QB position. Since I'm not presenting a scientific theory for peer review, this is as much support as I'll offer.

[Oldfan]

take the test and you will find out. What they say normally is that once you read the question, you decide whether you answer it or skip it and you cant come back to the question. They want you to go through the test just once, without loooking over your answers. Its hard, but simpler when you know what is coming like anything in life, and know what your strengths and weaknesses are for the test

I can understand marginal improvement on the test with repeated tries, but something's wrong when someone scores a 14 and then a 28.

[fansince62]

Let's not invent terms like "creative intellignce." Intelligence is fundamentally pattern recognition and some people are better at it than others. Cover two is a pattern. The very bright QB recognizes it and, almost instantly knows which defender to read (another pattern), and from that, which option of the play called will open up.

How did you figure that? You would first need to quantify the performance factor before studying the correlation with Wonderlik scores.

You sly devil. You're trying to give your opponents in an internet debate an impossible burden of proof.

My claim is that the Wonderlik is a fair measure of intelligence and that intelligence is a factor to be weighed when evaluating any football player and even moreso with the QB position. Since I'm not presenting a scientific theory for peer review, this is as much support as I'll offer.

no...the bright QB doesn't recognize...he trains to recognize.training adds a whole differend dimension to the matter.

you know I don't like debating with you cuz we are brothers in arms (i.e., the downside aint worth it to me)....so I'll just end by saying we have a different perspective on the validity of the test as a predictor....we'll just have to disagree!

[skinfan2k]

I can understand marginal improvement on the test with repeated tries, but something's wrong when someone scores a 14 and then a 28.

not really, you can improve big time on the wonderlic when you recognized what is going to be on the test and what not?

Why does it then that Campbell got a 28 and 29 on his next 2 tries. Maybe the first one was just an anamoly?

[Oldfan]

Why is it hard to explain? He took the test as a junior as part of the scouting process and then he took the test later as a senior.

The simplest and most likely reason is not that his skills doubled over the year, it's just that when he took the test more seriously and sufficiently prepared for it during his later administrations since it was closer to the draft and since his stock had risen considerably over that year.

I don't see that possibility as likely at all. We are talking about basic math and language skills, stuff kids are supposed to learn between the fifth and eigth grades. If he didn't catch it the first time, it's hard to believe that Auburn University has a remarkable remedial program that could teach it to him between his junior and senior years.

[fansince62]

I can understand marginal improvement on the test with repeated tries, but something's wrong when someone scores a 14 and then a 28.

why is that? I lied on my last post!!!

I know where you are coming from...but I have seen people improve orders of magnitude on IQ tests as a simple matter of familiarity: for whatever reason, the second time around the psychology changes (e.g., confidence) ; less time is spent trying to fathom what a question is looking for; the surprise factor is reduced....whatever....I have seen it......now...with a 160 IQ myself I have never experienced it.... .....just kidding!!!!!

[skinfan2k]

Why does it explain that i rised my SAT score for english from a 600 to a 740 on the 2nd try and then i got a 730 on the 3rd try?

[bobzmuda]

My claim is that the Wonderlik is a fair measure of intelligence and that intelligence is a factor to be weighed when evaluating any football player and even moreso with the QB position.

I can understand marginal improvement on the test with repeated tries, but something's wrong when someone scores a 14 and then a 28.

Can you reconcile these two positions? You claim the Wonderlic is a fair measure of intelligence, but later it seems you are either questioning the validity of the Wonderlic itself or questioning the validity of Campbell's later scores (which begs the question why aren't the validit of both scores questioned).

I still believe preparing for the Wonderlic can result in much higher scores. Employing simple strategies that are not self-evident, such as skipping any question that you can not answer at first glance, can have a tremendous impact on the raw score.

[Oldfan]

not really, you can improve big time on the wonderlic when you recognized what is going to be on the test and what not?[/Quote]

If that's true, the test is worthless and could easily be debunked.

Why does it then that Campbell got a 28 and 29 on his next 2 tries. Maybe the first one was just an anamoly?

As I said before, if these "anomalies" happened very often, the test would obviously be worthless.

[skinfan2k]

If that's true, the test is worthless and could easily be debunked.

As I said before, if these "anomalies" happened very often, the test would obviously be worthless.

and you know why teams dont take this test that seriously, if someone wished to take the test with proper time to study, i am sure most players would get better scores. It is just mandatory and apart of the draft process. Go ahead and take a test. I am sure on the 2nd time you will see an increase because you became familiar with the exam