Todd Collins will be a beter QB than Jason! (Merged)

[taylorcoreskin]

Was talking to. If he'd like to talk again, he can PM me.

Of course, that would require you to respond to his PM :2cents: .

[MikeBass]

TC's throwing speed can be measured with a calendar.

When he's picked 12 times next week, I want all you people that are on his knob to come back here and continue to show him your sincere support.

Really, I do. I know you can do it. Really.

Are we really going to talk about "picks" and our QB? ...I love JC but he has not been the less picked QB in the NFL especially at crucial times

[SearchHorizon]

how can you see all this from one game?

What I see is this: usually, quarterbacks that is a one-day game winnder tends to rely on leg speed, being good at particular throws, -- certain athletic "propensities."

What I see in TC is competence through a complete mastery of Saunder's offense and knowing the defense that he faces. His arm strength is not that great, but Saunders offense is not necessarily designed for that.

There is no real "propensity" in TC to prepare for.

[mithong]

god if only TC had arm strength, he'd be a beast. of course then he wouldn't be a backup huh

[redshirtguy#45]

god if only TC had arm strength, he'd be a beast. of course then he wouldn't be a backup huh

if he had a motor too. i hope the o-line is ok next week. the giant d at home can be pretty bad for wash (at least it has been under gibbs 2 in NJ). watching collins run for his life is not something i would like to see

[Soup]

What I see is this: usually, quarterbacks that is a one-day game winnder tends to rely on leg speed, being good at particular throws, -- certain athletic "propensities."

What I see in TC is competence through a complete mastery of Saunder's offense and knowing the defense that he faces. His arm strength is not that great, but Saunders offense is not necessarily designed for that.

There is no real "propensity" in TC to prepare for.

so your saying that the coaches just missed this during the season or in practice. The coaches just said lets put Todd on the bench even if he's better than Jason. I still can't believe people are saying Todd is better than Jason, wow it really makes you think if eagle fans jumped ship and turned into Skin fans.

[SearchHorizon]

god if only TC had arm strength, he'd be a beast. of course then he wouldn't be a backup huh

Who is a backup and who is the starter does not necessarily indicate who is the better quarterback. Sometimes it is, but not all the time.

For example, if a team invests a lot of money in a player, that player may get to start, even if he is not the best player. (e.g., Shuler v. Ferrotte).

A lot of it has to do with luck of the draw. TC had the misfortune of being a backup to good players. He will get his chance this year and we will see what he can do.

[Stucon]

Why is it that a certain group of fans accuse people of "hate" or "haten" (whatever that word means) when they prefer one player over another? I agree. I am filled with hate. I hate to lose.

Campbell may or may not be good in the future. In the meantime, I want to win games. I have no confidence that JC would have won this came tonight. I have more confidence that we could have won a couple of games that we lost with a different QB. At this point in the season, the best chance we have at making the playoffs is a change at QB. Campbell was not there yet and the chances for him to change dramatically in the coming weeks were slim. TC may not be the future, but he is the present day and our only chance at the playoffs. If we fall short, then we can continue with the Campbell experiment down the road. But at least we can get excited and hope the TC is a better near term roll of the dice.

We can argue all day long about the potential of Campbell and that he has many years ahead of him, but it is hard to argue that in the blink of an eye (or the bending of a knee), the productivity of this team improved significantly. All things considered, this is the best chance we have of making the playoffs this year.

[MikeBass]

god if only TC had arm strength, he'd be a beast. of course then he wouldn't be a backup huh

All that matters is the "W's" that he can give us when he DOES get into the game. THIS is his what he is here to do for us... 1-0, TC'S winning, NFL's serve.

[hogfat]

i was shocked to find out todd collins was still in the league.....hes gotta be 110 years old

[SearchHorizon]

so your saying that the coaches just missed this during the season or in practice. The coaches just said lets put Todd on the bench even if he's better than Jason. I still can't believe people are saying Todd is better than Jason' date=' wow it really makes you think if eagle fans jumped ship and turned into Skin fans.[/quote']

Deciding what is best for the team is not necessarily about putting best player on the field. QB development, the past decisions (e.g., remember Gibbs selected JC), investment, etc., all weigh in. Just consider why Bears played Grossman in place of Griese.

My suspicion is that Gibbs probably knew that TC would be better (though not necessarily how much better). Al Saunders certainly knew.

If I were in Gibbs shoes, I would have gone with JC as well.

[eagleskins]

Trading up to draft Campbell was a huge mistake. Collins played better tonight than JC has in his career.

[yellowdog1717]

Wow. Don't want to wade through 26 pages on this (you guys are a very active forum!) but believe me, as a Bills fan, you don't want Collins in the long run. They said tonight the last time he threw 2 TDs in a game was 1997, which, incidentally, was when he was the starting QB for the Bills and threw 12 TDs and 13 picks in 14 games. I'm just saying.

But, as I'm sure has been said, a win is a win is a win, and if this guy can come in and fire up the offense and put some W's on the board, then by all means. The NFL is littered with examples of guys who have had long, somewhat ineffective careers and then come back and lead a team to the Big Dance (see: Kurt Warner, Doug Flutie, etc.).

Either way, nice win tonight. The loss of Campbell killed my fantasy playoff chances I think, although it seems I might be able to pick up the Collins fellow in a pinch.

[TK]

Of course, that would require you to respond to his PM :2cents: .

Your problem was your failure to grasp the meaning of the words that were written to you & then continuously ask the same question over & over & over again after it was answered the first time. :2cents:

[Ghost of]

Wow, things got heated on this thread.

I think a couple of things need to be addressed:

1) You guys should know from a lot of my posts that I pull no punches on racial issues and will call it like I see it. Now, there are probably a few people "out there" in Skinsland that are uncomfortable with JC at QB due to his race. HOWEVER, I think it is offensive and some people owe some others apologies for asserting that posters in THIS thread are critical of Jason due to race. You want to know why? I saw this same thing happen with Ramsey. And BTW, they were much harsher with Ramsey after his one bad pick vs. Philly in 04 than most people have been with Campbell after several bad mistakes in a row. Ramsey was also hammered for fumbling and Campbell shows that same propensity. Same propensity to 'just miss' deep bombs also. And to take sacks/hits that maybe he doesn't need to. The big difference is Campbell appears unflappable and has mobility.

But to ascribe these differing opinions to race is absurd. If JC were performing on the level of Derek Anderson in Cleveland, you'd hear a lot less from the critics. If anything, I think JC is coddled ever so slightly because people do not want to appear to give credence to anything McNabb said.

2) I don't think anyone is saying Todd COllins is the future. Half or more of the posts in this thread are of people dissing Collins, dissing his performance or saying how old he is and how stupid someone thinks he's the future. WHO THE HELL SAID HE WAS THE FUTURE?! It's about right now. And TONIGHT, I saw receivers run after catch, I saw touch and placement and anticipation that I simply didn't see from JC for the most part.

3) This really isn't about TC in the final analysis. His limitations very well could render him a 0.0 against the Giants in 10 days. But it's about what you saw tonight and to some extent in the preseason, what COULD BE with the Saunders offense. There are a lot of people who've hammered him but those of us who actually watched football outside of the Skins, know what a Saunders offense tends to look like. We often, were not watching it this year.

4) JC should get next year to prove himself. I think even most doubters would agree to that. The question is whether or not there are significant flaws that he seems to show and that some of the things Todd brought to the offense tonight may be a clue in to what some of those problems are...even the broadcasters and post-gamers will point these out.

5) There are a lot of people more invested in Jason than they've been in previous QB situations because of either how much we've invested in him or perhaps because he flashes some pretty nice physical talent or maybe who was the impetus behind his selection. In any case, things are a lot more heated here than I would expect, considering that no reasonable person is proposing that TC is a superstar or that we should make him our QB of the future.

I just look at this as a learning situation for Jason and a sign to us of what the offense is supposed to look like in capable and learned hands. Now if Jason can apply his talent fully to the offense, you'll see it go orders of magnitude beyond tonight.

I am concerned about him and I think it's fair for any fan to be. It's unfortunate that the team has been so wracked with injuries but we've been in games of late, making plays to stay in it or drive down late and Jason has thrown critical, terrible picks. If he were handpicked by any other head coach, we'd have seen a lot more directed at Jason.

I hope for the best and I've liked a lot of what I've seen but Jason is going to have to make significant strides to play at the level next year to justify him remaining the franchise QB. I hope this injury is healed quickly and he can get back to work and not suffer any loss of confidence in his leg.

[z0eboy]

Trading up to draft Campbell was a huge mistake. Collins played better tonight than JC has in his career.

wasnt this his first NFL game since 2005? come on! :doh1: Jason campbell is a franchise QB everyone on offense including TC has more experience

[dizzinator53]

this thread is absolutely a fart.

[hkHog]

I like Campbell but I feel he is being thrust into a difficult situation too early. He has made progress but he also seemed to be picking up some bad habits. I think he is the Qb of the future and will blossom into a legitimate star but Collins might be better right now.

[susan82]

I'm sticking with JC he's still young and makes mistakes. And yes, sometimes when he throws I get sick to my stomach but he'll learn. He's going to be an amazing qb I truly believe that. He's our guy. Collins is a good backup, but he's not our starter. He did his job tonight. He came out and stepped up that's his job. JC is our #1 qb that's his job and he'll get it right.

[taylorcoreskin]

Wow, things got heated on this thread.

I think a couple of things need to be addressed:

Really great post McPimpin. The insinuation that people's criticism of JC is fueled by racism is truly offensive.

[Mercuryrising]

I know we all love Jason but we will be better with Todd.

Yeah, and Longley should be in the HOF instead of Staubach.

[Bacon]

I'm sticking with JC he's still young and makes mistakes. And yes, sometimes when he throws I get sick to my stomach but he'll learn. He's going to be an amazing qb I truly believe that. He's our guy. Collins is a good backup, but he's not our starter. He did his job tonight. He came out and stepped up that's his job. JC is our #1 qb that's his job and he'll get it right.

Bingo! :flowers:

[KelvinBryant]

Campbell is the better QB.

Collins knows the offense better.

There, I summed up the entire "debate" for you all.

[tiger187126]

i can't believe people are throwing campbell under the bus for collins. Collins is a career backup, easy to say he looks good when he's been studying the same system he's playing under for how many years in a row now?

meanwhile campbell is getting his first full season under his belt and had 5 consecutive years of having to learn different offenses.

collins is in his 11th season, and i remember a 13/14 year veteran a few years ago who had everyone jumping on the bandwagon as well only to realize that Favre is the only quarterback who can really compete at such a high level when he gets to be that age

Campbell is the future, and NFL teams don't change overnight

get used to rebuilding and stop looking for a quick fix

you guys remind me of a younger Snyder, and we all know how much you complained about him

[VCDefectors]

I'm just shocked how this forum has turned on Jason Campbell. After his game against the Cowboys a few weeks ago, it seemed that the ES was behind him. Who knew?

I don't think losing JC for the season bodes well for the Skins, though. I thought he made a lot of progress this season.