Will fans ever really be pleased?

[ZRagone]

I'm thoroughly confused at some of the things being typed on these forums. I will be the first to admit that a lot of things this season in regards to the coaches have bothered me. I will also say that a large portion of the blame also falls on the players for lack of execution. As well, a few times we just have simply not had the balls bounce in our direction.

But all season we have people on these forums complaining about certain issues. Then, when those issues get fixed they don’t acknowledge them and then just rant on about something else.

One of the big things was opening up the offense, which came in more around the middle of the season, as people forgot the long passes early on. They complained we ran too much, never really opening it up. In the past two games we have opened it up, and yet I see next to no praise on the coaches of actually doing it. MORE THAN THAT, if you look at some of the early games we DID go down field a decent bit and had some success at times and little at others due to drops. Now, our receivers are seeming to be a lot more in sync with Campbell. Did this “just happen”, or perhaps the coaches saw the first few games, saw that they weren’t in sync, and let them develop a bit more rhythm and let their guys get healed, went to what they knew could work, and then when the time came opened it back up?

Another thing is we’re just playing a simple run, run, pass, punt play style with nothing unexpected. Yet look at the past few weeks? Onside kick early in the game, flick to randel el into a throw, these are expected plays? We were “predictable” at the end of the Jets game because we were “predictably” picking up 4+ yards on every carry. In the philly and dallas games we actually varied our play calling a great bit, sometimes relying a lot more on passing.

But that even gets screamed about. Two games ago, if it was 2nd and 1 and then 3rd and 1 and we ran it once, or god forbid both times, people on this forum would complain about the fact we’re predictable. So instead, we throw it on 2nd and 1 and 3rd and 1 and what happens…people complain about the fact that we don’t pound the ball with the run!

You look at the 4th and 1 early in the game with the choice to kick the field goal. Another situation where, frankly, people would complain no matter what the call is if it fails. You run a quarterback sneak and fail, people would say that’s too predictable, idiot gibbs. You hand it to sellars and he doesn’t get it, you say people are knowing we give it to Sellars now or he dives and people say the coaches tell him to do it. You give it to Portis on a sweep and he gets stopped and it gets called a stupid play. You throw it and people complain we didn’t give it to Sellars. Plus, on any of those, we ***** we didn’t just take the points and get a bigger lead. But no, we kick it, and miss, so people ***** about that.

There are many things that our coaches have done wrong this year; clock management being one of the bigger ones. But I honestly believe a lot of the things we’re complaining about we are complaining simply…well, to complain…because we don’t win. And you gotta blame someone, and it’s the “in” thing to drop it on Gibbs right now, especially after last year, a lot of which I think is lingering resentment for that which was Mark Brunell.

But when they do things right, or actually adjust, almost no one gives them credit for that. When they make a tough choice and it just doesn’t work out we don’t look at it as reasonable fans but instead think that somehow they’re the coaching equivalent of a 3rd grader. There are a number of people on this forum that I think no matter WHAT happened, if it doesn’t work its automatically a stupid coaching decision. And really, if that’s how you judge everything, go join the Pat’s band wagon until the next team that becomes amazingly good shows up and go jump on that bandwagon. Every thing that fails doesn’t fail because it’s a poor coaching mistake. The fact that so many of the people railing non stop on Gibbs won’t give him credit when he deserves it, but will rail against him often when its undeserved, is what makes me really discount their arguments. There are a number of things Gibb’s has done bad in his second tenure…but they often get over looked because they’re mixed in with too many over blown things, or are said by people that have blinders on when it comes to the good things.

[Truant]

I hear ya. It can be frustrating at times. But turn on the TV, it's all about second-guessing and being critical.

People are talking about the Pats being bad for football the way they are winning. Talk about finding a negative in something that is very positive (for them). Conflict is compelling. Back-patting is boring.

I think that the majority of fans realize that JC looks like the real deal and this team is showing signs of life. But, this is a message board. It's here so people can sound off. When the Skins win people can come here and read about other people's joy and talk about next week. When they lose people can come here and blindly rant and ***** to get it out of their system.

Don't let the messageboard be the pulse for the entire fanbase. I'm a pretty optimistic fan, but after a loss it takes me a bit to calm down and process what actually happened in the game.

A lot of the blame being thrown around is undeserved, but don't think that all Skins fans are feeling that way.

[Brotherz]

I don't think that we don't understand that there are areas of improvement on this team. I think we are losing. We are 5-5. We have blown 4 half time leads. We have escaped winless miami at home in overtime, the cardinals on a missed field goal (also at home) , the Jets was horrendous, we are 1-3 in division games now and we have really lost badly. What I think is so frustrating is that we see as we watch these games that the mistakes are costing us these games and we could very easily be the toast of the town like our hated rivals the pukes are right now. I mean cmon, as much as I admit I thought we were going to get our doors blown off by the girls yesterday, it almost hurt worse seeing us clearly in position to put a stranglehold on the wildcard, shut the cowboys love affair with the media down, and erase that AWFUl taste the eagles game put in our mouth last week and we choked. Flat out. Again, in a crucial point in the game we choked.

It isn't that we don't see that Jason Cambell is probably the best QB since Theismann or that the safeties could be the best tandem for the next 5-8 years. We see that. We just also see that we have NO depth in that secondary. Instead of Kenny wright its Torrence. Doughty and prileaou (or however you spell it) have been here for a while now and they just keep getting worse. We see coaching mistakes that make your blood boil. Time outs that just kill us, play calling that literally costs us ballgames, penalties at the worst possible time that keep drives alive for our opponents and also cost us games (did you see Doughty tackle that reciver for a 51 yard penalty yesterday? How bout' cooley last week with the false start penalty and this week that huge drop? Santana's drops? Fletcher's drops, two weeks ago Godfrey's drop? Heck, everybody's freakin drop!!!??) I personally am glad to see the improvement in certain areas and I have not forgotten that last year we were 5-11, I just also haven't forgotten that the year before that we were 10-6 and won a playoff game. The only consistent thing this team does is play inconsistently. That's all we are frustrated with. We don't ignore the good (at leat I don't), I guess I just see such drastic areas of improvement and we just don't seem to correct it. Also, you have to admit that other than the lions game, we can't seem to play well in all three phases of the game at the same time. We either get upset because our offense is anemic and can't stop putting our exhausted defense on the filed because they keep going three and out or our offense is lighting it up and the entire defense forgets to cover the one guy they game planned all week to stop! Its just frustrating.

[kevin11]

It isn't that we don't see that Jason Cambell is probably the best QB since Theismann or that the safeties could be the best tandem for the next 5-8 years. We see that. We just also see that we have NO depth in that secondary. Instead of Kenny wright its Torrence. Doughty and prileaou (or however you spell it) have been here for a while now and they just keep getting worse. We see coaching mistakes that make your blood boil. Time outs that just kill us, play calling that literally costs us ballgames, penalties at the worst possible time that keep drives alive for our opponents and also cost us games (did you see Doughty tackle that reciver for a 51 yard penalty yesterday? How bout' cooley last week with the false start penalty and this week that huge drop? Santana's drops? Fletcher's drops, two weeks ago Godfrey's drop? Heck, everybody's freakin drop!!!??) I personally am glad to see the improvement in certain areas and I have not forgotten that last year we were 5-11, I just also haven't forgotten that the year before that we were 10-6 and won a playoff game. The only consistent thing this team does is play inconsistently. That's all we are frustrated with. We don't ignore the good (at leat I don't), I guess I just see such drastic areas of improvement and we just don't seem to correct it. Also, you have to admit that other than the lions game, we can't seem to play well in all three phases of the game at the same time. We either get upset because our offense is anemic and can't stop putting our exhausted defense on the filed because they keep going three and out or our offense is lighting it up and the entire defense forgets to cover the one guy they game planned all week to stop! Its just frustrating.

WOW! How do you live thinking like that?

You see Cooley and his 8 catches. You blame him on his one drop?

Flethcer? He has 3 picks this season and only dropped 2 that he should've had.

You should be happy our LB are in that position to knock it down instead of not being there at all.

Cooleys false start was bad but who doesnt have false starts.

We arent consistent cause we arent a good team. Get over it. We are improving and when you accept that, the wins feel better. We are average and are improving. Teams are built in a year. It took a good 5 years to build the cowboys till what they are now, due to Parcells. Patriots sucked until Brady came. Same for colts...

Teams are built around their QB and I really think we can contend for a division championship next year.

and, this year..We will finish with a 7-9 or 8-8 record and miss the playoffs.

[Touchdown Redskins]

WOW! How do you live thinking like that?

You see Cooley and his 8 catches. You blame him on his one drop?

Flethcer? He has 3 picks this season and only dropped 2 that he should've had.

You should be happy our LB are in that position to knock it down instead of not being there at all.

Cooleys false start was bad but who doesnt have false starts.

We arent consistent cause we arent a good team. Get over it. We are improving and when you accept that, the wins feel better. We are average and are improving. Teams are built in a year. It took a good 5 years to build the cowboys till what they are now, due to Parcells. Patriots sucked until Brady came. Same for colts...

Teams are built around their QB and I really think we can contend for a division championship next year.

and, this year..We will finish with a 7-9 or 8-8 record and miss the playoffs.

The point is that those little things (such as false starts, drops, and horrible play calls) are the difference between a win and a loss. That goes straight to coaching, and it's frustrating to keep looking at things like moral victories, because we've been searching for moral victories for years now. It's time for us to start doing the little things right, because aside from the New England game, we've outplayed every single team we've lost to. Being optimistic about how we played is great, but a moral victory doesn't change the win column.

[CM916]

We can win three straight super bowls and someone on here will ***** about a missed field goal or something.

When they re-aired the original Super Bowl XXII broadcast a while back, we did a fake game thread that turned out exactly like any other. The first quarter was all doom and gloom and then in the 3rd quarter, up 35-10, someone called our kicker "Ali Haji SHANK" when he missed that pointless field goal. :laugh: The idea was that ES would have looked exactly the same had it existed in 1987 and I think we were right.

[ZRagone]

Brotherz and Touchdown...I agree with you. Actually, a whole lot.

That's actually part of my issue. EVERYWHERE on this team we've had something go wrong. Moss has dropped a number of key passes. Portis got off to a very slow start. Our o-line is badly damaged. Our secondary just lost 2 of its 4 starters. Cooley's had a few misses. Campbells had some over throws. Sellars had a few drops and a botched dive, Etc, etc...

Yeah, coaching has been spotty at times, but so have many players. This team as a whole have had some major issues.

The difference is, generally, when the players then step it up, they get complimented and acknowledged for it even if they do something bad (IE the comment about complaining about one cooley drop when he did the rest good). Yet this doesn't work for the coaches. They adjust and start doing something everyone is asking for and calling for, and thus something else gets nit picked...and often its things getting nick picked that simply have no point in it, IE the field goal early on in the game. There wasn't anything wrong with the call, what was wrong is that it failed. ANY CALL Joe Gibbs makes at that point of the game, and doesn't work out, would cause a throng of people to jump on this forum and start questioning it. ANY CALL. It isn't because of the call, its because it doesn't work.

Yep, the game at Arizona (a pretty decent team, possible wildcard or even division contender) and Miami (A horrible team atm, can't really deny that, but better at the start of the year then they are now) were right down to the wire. The Eagles #1 and the Jets (NOT a bad team, they just came out beating possibly the #2 or #3 team in the AFC) were both close. but both aren't "horrible". Converesly, the Giants, Green Bay, Philly #2 and Dallas games were all close as well.

That's the story of the season. Its been a season of some good strides, some bad errors, and bounces going all which way. Get a few more bounces and we could be 9 and 1. Get a few less bounces and we could be 1 and 9.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Nope. And to be honest, sometimes there is a little part of me that hopes when Gibbs retires again, Dan Snyder brings in a GM, doesn't sign a FA and only drafts players, we play 5 WR's and go for it every time its4th and short, and the team crashes and burns

Right now this fan base doesn't deserve a winner

[bulldog]

The Redskins injuries together with some poor management of personnel (on the team this season not in the front office) have caused this team to underachieve.

Dallas and Green Bay are almost 100% healthy. They have quality players but look at Dallas and Romo sits to pee has all 5 starting OL in there, Owens is healthy, Witten is healthy as are both of the running backs.

That makes a HUGE difference. The Redskins running game would look a lot better right now with Randy Thomas and Jansen on the right side. Jansen has his problems in pass protection at 32, but he is still a quality drive blocker.

The other problem as mentioned is the coaching. Gibbs and Co. have coached the team to play close games by design. Take no chances, kick field goals, don't throw the ball in the middle of the field, don't blitz the quarterback in key situations, etc.

It is all geared toward not making a mistake. Meanwhile Campbell has only had the occasional chance to get a significant amount of reps throwing the ball and learning how to be an effective qb in the NFL. You only learn so much handing off 35 plus times a game.

All apologies to Portis and Betts, but it's Campbell who is the 'X' factor towards the team's future success as a passer. Having a franchise passer is the key to being a true contender.

Teams can pick up running backs who are productive a lot more easily.

[zCommander]

Short answer to your question: NO!

The long answer to your question: NO!

[Peregrine]

Yes because things are going SOO well for the now 5-5 Washington Redskins, that its so hard to believe we can possibly find anything wrong with this team...</end sarcasm>

Seriously, why did you just write that? Will fans ever be pleased????????? Have you BEEN a Redskins fan long? Perhaps you went to sleep for 13 years?

[iheartskins]

Nope. And to be honest, sometimes there is a little part of me that hopes when Gibbs retires again, Dan Snyder brings in a GM, doesn't sign a FA and only drafts players, we play 5 WR's and go for it every time its4th and short, and the team crashes and burns

Right now this fan base doesn't deserve a winner

I don't think anyone is arguing going from one extreme to the other SHF.

Nor do I think that those who are the loudest in voicing their opinions (whose opinions you appear to stridently disagree with) are reflective of the fan base as a whole.

[No_Pressure]

We will all be pleased when we are 19-0, Campbell breaks every single season passing record in the NFL, Portis breaks the single season yardage, carries, YPC, touchdowns, and receiving records for the NFL, Santana Moss breaks the single season receptions, yards, and touchdowns record, Chris Cooley does the same for TE's, all of our linemen make the pro bowl, Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels combine for 50 sacks, Griffin and Montgomery account for the other 50, every linebacker has this stat line: 250 tackles (250 solo) 20 sacks, 25 INT's, every CB holds every receiver we face to 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TD's, and 0 1st downs while logging 20 INT's and Sean Taylor & LaRon Landry rip at least 40 WR's in half, ending their careers and lives.

Until that happens I guess we'll just have to live with some fans never being happy with the team, especially when we LOSE 2 STRAIGHT GAMES TO NFC EAST OPPONENTS.

[iheartskins]

and Sean Taylor & LaRon Landry rip at least 40 WR's in half

I requested quarters, not halves damnit!

[ZRagone]

Yes because things are going SOO well for the now 5-5 Washington Redskins, that its so hard to believe we can possibly find anything wrong with this team...</end sarcasm>

Seriously, why did you just write that? Will fans ever be pleased????????? Have you BEEN a Redskins fan long? Perhaps you went to sleep for 13 years?

We will all be pleased when we are 19-0, Campbell breaks every single season passing record in the NFL, Portis breaks the single season yardage, carries, YPC, touchdowns, and receiving records for the NFL, Santana Moss breaks the single season receptions, yards, and touchdowns record, Chris Cooley does the same for TE's, all of our linemen make the pro bowl, Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels combine for 50 sacks, Griffin and Montgomery account for the other 50, every linebacker has this stat line: 250 tackles (250 solo) 20 sacks, 25 INT's, every CB holds every receiver we face to 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 TD's, and 0 1st downs while logging 20 INT's and Sean Taylor & LaRon Landry rip at least 40 WR's in half, ending their careers and lives.

Until that happens I guess we'll just have to live with some fans never being happy with the team, especially when we LOSE 2 STRAIGHT GAMES TO NFC EAST OPPONENTS.

Did you read my posts? I admit, there is a good bit of things wrong with this team.

There are also a lot of things going right. And there's also things that we're complaining about that end up happening how we ask for it to happen, and people still complain.

What I'm saying is that a lot of the legitimate problems with this team basically get ignored by a lot of fans because instead of concentrating on those things we get the same general people that will ***** about everything, and anything, including stuff that's over blown and then will never actually admit when the things they complain about improve.

Its the boy who cries wolf syndrome.

No, fans will never be 100% pleased unless they're undefeated...but its more the fact of WHAT fans are upset about then the fact they are upset

[Brotherz]

WOW! How do you live thinking like that?

You see Cooley and his 8 catches. You blame him on his one drop?

Flethcer? He has 3 picks this season and only dropped 2 that he should've had.

You should be happy our LB are in that position to knock it down instead of not being there at all.

Cooleys false start was bad but who doesnt have false starts.

We arent consistent cause we arent a good team. Get over it. We are improving and when you accept that, the wins feel better. We are average and are improving. Teams are built in a year. It took a good 5 years to build the cowboys till what they are now, due to Parcells. Patriots sucked until Brady came. Same for colts...

Teams are built around their QB and I really think we can contend for a division championship next year.

and, this year..We will finish with a 7-9 or 8-8 record and miss the playoffs.

Like I said to the original poster, I don't ignore the good. I think Cooley has played wonderfully this year but just because he did I don't ignore the fact that he had an enormous drop yesterday at a crucial point in the game and I didnt forget that 3rd and 2 became 3rd and 7 thanks to his false start last weak against 4-5 eagles in our house (and incidentally, the eagles has less false starts than we did at home last week). And as far as your it takes half a decade to build a playoff team we were 10-6 and won a road playoff game before going 5-11 the following year with the wonderful additions of Archuleta, Brandon lloyd and the like. I'd be all for it if we were building slowly and steadily but that isn't what we have done. Not for the last 15 years anyway. 1991 is sort of slipping into the back of our collective memories over here. If we were going 3-13, 8-8, 10-6, 14-2 I'd be right with your lets take five yearrs to "build" a team. But we aren't even close to doing something like that and anyone who is watching for the past five years knows that we aren't in year, 1, 2, 3, or 4 of any kind of five year plan. Heck, I wish we were.

[chipwhich]

If you saw the old Redskins under Gibbs, you would understand being pleased and not pleased.

Hopefully you will get the pleasure.

[Brotherz]

If you saw the old Redskins under Gibbs, you would understand being pleased and not pleased.

Hopefully you will get the pleasure.

When i hear from the "younger" ESers about my nastiness toward this team I have to sit back and remember that I might very well be greedy. I want a Superbowl. I want a post season. i want home games in the post season. i want to be favored against a team with a winning record. I remember 14-2 where both losses were by 1 point!!! Maybe i am just spoiled but I just don't think I can ever wrap my head around being happy and saying we are now going to run the table because we ALMOST beat the Cowboys but we threw an interception inside the redzone as we went in for the winning touchdown. That doesn't make me happy. But I am a different generation of fan I suppose. In fact, according to many of the ESers now, I am not a fan at all because I see things that I really really believe should have been corrected by now and I voice my displeasure with it.

[Shilsu]

You want to know how to make the fans pleased?

Winning.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

You know what pleases me? Seeing a Quarterback march his team down the field WITH EASE against the now 9-1 best team the NFC has to offer and place them in a position to win.

Seeing the offense slowly opening up to the tune of 50+ passes

Seeing the defense make key turns overs and stops to give the offense the ball back because, and I quote, "They (the offense) had a fire in their eyes, we just had to get the ball back for them"

Seeing a team play the best teams the NFC has to offer (GB and Dallas) minus most of the offensive line, minus two starters in the secondary and have NO worldly business being in either game. Yet they are in EVERY game. minus the pats...

Seeing a team that can change from running the ball for 196 yards (by one guy) to a team that can throw it for 330+ in the span of two weeks. Talk about 180.

You impatient folks can stand around and complain all you want. I personally want to see what Joe Gibbs can do with one more year. I complain too. I hate the losses and I hate not going for it on 4th down. But eventually, this will get turned around and if it doesn't what's one more year to you?

We've been waiting since 91 for another dream season, one more year ain't going to hurt.

[Shilsu]

You impatient folks can stand around and complain all you want. I personally want to see what Joe Gibbs can do with one more year. I complain too. I hate the losses and I hate not going for it on 4th down. But eventually, this will get turned around and if it doesn't what's one more year to you?

We've been waiting since 91 for another dream season, one more year ain't going to hurt.

That's the problem. We're all just glorified crack edits just looking for that one more high, even if it takes a toll on our health.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I'm with you brother. Yesterday I was so heated. The most I've been in a LONG time and I didn't like it one bit. I hit the couch, I screamed at the TV and cursed loud enough to make the neighbors cover their children's ears.

There is no glory in it It's just Redskins football.

Welcome,

keep coming back it works. But ONLY IF YOU WORK IT!!

[SkinsHokieFan]

I don't think anyone is arguing going from one extreme to the other SHF.

Nor do I think that those who are the loudest in voicing their opinions (whose opinions you appear to stridently disagree with) are reflective of the fan base as a whole.

At times it does. I am not sure if you lurked ES when Spurrier was here, but I am curious to see what the "Gibbs must go" crowd would have been posting while Spurrier was here. I know what intelligent posters like Bulldog were posting, but I am curious to see what others would have posted

That was as "opened up" of an offense as there ever will be. And it got DESTROYED. Me, I have always been one for balance and I have agreed this offensive staff this year has gone too conservative at times (I make this same complaint about my Hokies as well)

Yet it doesn't stop there, it becomes incredibly vitriolic and personal with regards to coach and the staff, which is why at times I think this fan base doesn't deserve a winner. But again, as always, I could be very wrong

[USS Redskins]

You are 24 - too young to remember when this team was consistently good. It's been maddening to watch, for over a decade, the team you love, play so badly and underachieve, when they were so good and such a classy, winning organization. There are dozens of times during these years that they seemed so close and then they find a way to loose, either by quitting, playing undisciplined, giving up leads and sometimes, just plain, stinking up the house.

They are no closer to a championship than they have been since JG left in 1993.

[iheartskins]

SHF, I think there will always be those with small brains who don't understand football, who cry the loudest and who only understand a scoreboard and that over 300+ yards passing is good.

ES used to be essentially free of these people and when they did pipe up, they were usually quickly silenced in the face of a usually insurmountable attack from those who knew better. That has changed, as you and I know, as there has been a disproportionate influx of people who know very little about football, but like to hear the sound of their own voices. Over this, we (i.e., the posters on ES) have limited control.

Our (i.e., the Staff's) recent thread on vacations for vitriol is trying to address the second part of your post. I think we're all still coming to grips with the enormous traffic on the Board and how to handle the impact on the community.

Getting to the other point, I think we deserve a winner--even those people who are the most spiteful are usually only spiteful because they care and they are frustrated with the lackluster performance of this team.

The personal nature of the attacks to the coaches probably has something to do with the increased anonymity of the Board--and also that we have so much access to these people that maybe we see them as a little more human than we used to. Maybe in viewing them with greater humanity (and with less idol-like addoration and distance), people feel more comfortable in expressing their criticism with angry accusations and insults.