Legend of the great white Canadian Running back

[artmonkforHOF]

Jesse Lumsden, remember that name? The "camp fodder" from last year, who scored a touchdown at the Ravens Scrimmage? Well Kid Canada came home to the CFL and is tearing things up. Here is an update for all those interested.

A few weeks ago, he won both the Canadian player of the week & Offensive player of the week honours with 158 yards rushing on 11(14.4YPC) attempts to go with 68 rec. yards. That one week performance against the best Run Defense in the CFL was enough for him to win CFl palyer of the month for July. He follows that up with Rushing for 211 on 12 carries with TD runs of 69 and 75 yards(17.6 YPC with the TD runs, 6.7 YPC without the TD runs). I think the QB only threw for 230 yards. His team (the Hamilton Tiger Cats) suck this year, and was winless unitl Jesse had his huge break out game. Jesse is putting up Nintendo like numbers for a CFl running back where 50-75 yards per game is considered great. Its not that the CFL doesnt have good running backs, its just when you have 3 downs, there is a lot more passing, but when you have a guy who is averaging 9.4 YPC, throwing for a first down is kind of an after thought.

In only 59 carries this season, he has 554 yards. The guy closest to him in the standings has 509 yards on 99 (or 40 more) carries.

This kid is going to be something speical, in the CFL for sure, and maybe the NFL at some point. I am happy that the Skins ut him because he would have been left to rot on the practice squad, now he can at least show off some of his talents in games that mean something.

Anyone who is interested in keeping tabs on this kid let me know, I can either fill you in or direct you to websites with stats, video etc.

[Die Hard]

Jesse Lumsden, remember that name? The "camp fodder" from last year, who scored a touchdown at the Ravens Scrimmage? Well Kid Canada came home to the CFL and is tearing things up. Here is an update for all those interested.

A few weeks ago, he won both the Canadian player of the week & Offensive player of the week honours with 158 yards rushing on 11(14.4YPC) attempts to go with 68 rec. yards. That one week performance against the best Run Defense in the CFL was enough for him to win CFl palyer of the month for July. He follows that up with Rushing for 211 on 12 carries with TD runs of 69 and 75 yards(17.6 YPC with the TD runs, 6.7 YPC without the TD runs). I think the QB only threw for 230 yards. His team (the Hamilton Tiger Cats) suck this year, and was winless unitl Jesse had his huge break out game. Jesse is putting up Nintendo like numbers for a CFl running back where 50-75 yards per game is considered great. Its not that the CFL doesnt have good running backs, its just when you have 3 downs, there is a lot more passing, but when you have a guy who is averaging 9.4 YPC, throwing for a first down is kind of an after thought.

In only 59 carries this season, he has 554 yards. The guy closest to him in the standings has 509 yards on 99 (or 40 more) carries.

This kid is going to be something speical, in the CFL for sure, and maybe the NFL at some point. I am happy that the Skins ut him because he would have been left to rot on the practice squad, now he can at least show off some of his talents in games that mean something.

Anyone who is interested in keeping tabs on this kid let me know, I can either fill you in or direct you to websites with stats, video etc.

Hey dude.... I'm a youth football coach in Hamilton (Hamilton Minor Football Association). We practice out at Westdale High School Tuesday/Thursday evenings... and Sat. mornings.

You're a Redskins fan... a football fan.... (as am I).... is coaching something you might be interested in?

Let me know... contact me via PM if you're interested and give me your contact information details (phone, name, address, etc).

Just thought I'd throw that out there...

T.

[nace14]

Hey dude.... I'm a youth football coach in Hamilton (Hamilton Minor Football Association). We practice out at Westdale High School Tuesday/Thursday evenings... and Sat. mornings.

You're a Redskins fan... a football fan.... (as am I).... is coaching something you might be interested in?

Let me know... contact me via PM if you're interested and give me your contact information details (phone, name, address, etc).

Just thought I'd throw that out there...

T.

this isn't craig's list, die hard. hit on the guy with private messages

[McMetal]

Doesn't say much for the league that he couldn't even make our team as a fourth stringer.

[Die Hard]

Doesn't say much for the league that he couldn't even make our team as a fourth stringer.

I wouldn't say that... sometimes guys just need opportunities and they never get them for a million different reasons.

Look at Priest Holmes, for instance.

With that being said, I've had my doubts about him since I met him at a football camp. But I can appreciate the fact that there's some good football talent rotting away as backups.

[dfitzo53]

Look at Priest Holmes, for instance.

Or Kurt Warner, or Sellers, or Tom Brady, or Marques Colston, or any of a host of players who slip through the cracks at first.

[Midnight Judges]

:laugh: someday we'l all get to tell our grandchildren about the white running back who should have been....

[Walking Deadman]

:laugh: someday we'l all get to tell our grandchildren about the white running back who should have been....

The Great White Hype?

[Die Hard]

Or Kurt Warner, or Sellers, or Tom Brady, or Marques Colston, or any of a host of players who slip through the cracks at first.

I didn't mention those players (Sellers fits though) because although their draft status was low and expectations were low.... they each came out of the gate flying and the coaching staff put them in virtually immediately (I understand Brady's was through injury to Bledsoe in his second season -- 2nd game of the new season).

But Lumsden's scenario is different.... being that he's been cut by 2 teams but he's had tryouts and been to camp. So the expectations of him making an impact are much lower... than say low-round pick in his first camp that surprises (like the Eagles WR Baskett last year too).

[Teller]

I don't think there's any doubt that a white player has to make more of an impression at some positions to be seriously considered than a black player does. I'm talking about running back and corner especially. I personally thought Lumsden showed more than enough last year to make the team. Obviously the coaches know better than I do, but I think it's unrealistic to think that race wasn't at least a SMALL factor; albeit probably subconsciously.

Now, in NO way am I trying to assert that a white halfback faces the same challenges as say, a black QB in the 1970's and early 80's. In fact, I don't think there's any deliberate discrimination going on here. But I find it extremely difficult to believe that there aren't any more John Riggins or Larry Csonkas out there anymore. Or Jason Sehorn's for that matter. And let's not forget that in his prime, Sehorn was as good a cover corner as anyone in the league.

But even then, white athletes at certain positions faced challenges that went unnoticed for the most part. I've heard Sehorn recount the story of his first days at Giants' camp. I think it was Harry Carson that asked him what position he played, and he responded, "I'm a cornerback." Carson said, "You mean safety?" And Sehorn said, "No, sir. I mean corner."

Like I said, I think Lumsden's got the skills to play in the NFL. Most white backs throughout NFL history have been power guys. (Read: Not as fast. ) Lumsden's got the perfect combination of strength and speed, IMO. I hope he gets his chance in the NFL before it's too late. (Course, he could always pull a Satchel Paige and have a couple of stud seasons in the NFL when he's 45 or 46. I kinda doubt it though.) :laugh:

[McMetal]

He's not working hard to get a shot someplace. He had it, and couldn't make it.

I thought he was a nice story too, you see 'em every year, but let's not sugarcoat it.

If he was going to break out, it would have happened by now, more than likely.

[DCsportsfan53]

:laugh:

hh, honestly, your drive to find instances of reverse racism is absolutely, mind bogglingly impressive. I literally don't even know how you do it. You honestly believe that a white RB has to do more to earn a spot?

[Teller]

He's not working hard to get a shot someplace. He had it, and couldn't make it.

I thought he was a nice story too, you see 'em every year, but let's not sugarcoat it.

If he was going to break out, it would have happened by now, more than likely.

Six carries for 32 yards in last year's Ravens scrimmage. One carry for 6 yards in last year's preseason game against the Jets. His YPA for us was a solid 6.0. In the CFL it's over 9. I'm sorry, but an African-American back with the same numbers would still be wearing B&G. (Actually, the Seahawks would never have let him get away in the first place.)

Lumsden was more than a "nice story." I didn't get wrapped up in the hype, I watched what the kid did on the field. Granted he struggled with a hip flexor last preseason, and that might have weighed in the decision, but IMO, he deserved to make the team.

[Teller]

:laugh:

hh, honestly, your drive to find instances of reverse racism is absolutely, mind bogglingly impressive. I literally don't even know how you do it. You honestly believe that a white RB has to do more to earn a spot?

What is reverse racism?

*edit* Oh, and since you missed it the first time, I made it brighter, bigger and flashier. Hope you can read it this time:

Now, in NO way am I trying to assert that a white halfback faces the same challenges as say, a black QB in the 1970's and early 80's. In fact, I don't think there's any deliberate discrimination going on here.

[DCsportsfan53]

What is reverse racism?

nm, I'll leave it alone. Whoah is me, the poor downtrodden white man in America.

[Teller]

nm, I'll leave it alone. Whoah is me, the poor downtrodden white man in America.

Exactly. I didn't expect you to be the one with the sack to answer the question. Fire off some sarcastic BS instead. That'll help the dialogue.

[DjTj]

I don't think there's any doubt that a white player has to make more of an impression at some positions to be seriously considered than a black player does. I'm talking about running back and corner especially. I personally thought Lumsden showed more than enough last year to make the team. Obviously the coaches know better than I do, but I think it's unrealistic to think that race wasn't at least a SMALL factor; albeit probably subconsciously.

I think you're probably right, but there's really nothing we can do about it. I'm sure the coaches do their best to be colorblind, but short of dressing the players in mummy suits, giving everyone fake names, and communicating only through writing to hide accents, I don't think we can create a truly "blind" football tryout process. Coaches are human and stereotypes will inevitably creep in.

Now to counteract the subconscious bias, we could try some structural things, like forcing every team to tryout one white runningback and one white cornerback every year, but I suspect you wouldn't like that idea...

[Fergasun]

I think you're probably right, but there's really nothing we can do about it. I'm sure the coaches do their best to be colorblind, but short of dressing the players in mummy suits, giving everyone fake names, and communicating only through writing to hide accents, I don't think we can create a truly "blind" football tryout process. Coaches are human and stereotypes will inevitably creep in.

Now to counteract the subconscious bias, we could try some structural things, like forcing every team to tryout one white runningback and one white cornerback every year, but I suspect you wouldn't like that idea...

The Jason Sehorn rule?

[Teller]

I think you're probably right, but there's really nothing we can do about it. I'm sure the coaches do their best to be colorblind, but short of dressing the players in mummy suits, giving everyone fake names, and communicating only through writing to hide accents, I don't think we can create a truly "blind" football tryout process. Coaches are human and stereotypes will inevitably creep in.

Now to counteract the subconscious bias, we could try some structural things, like forcing every team to tryout one white runningback and one white cornerback every year, but I suspect you wouldn't like that idea...

And you'd be right, Teej.

IMO, in a perfect world, EVERYTHING would be performance based. Sports, education, business, politics, all of it. I know that's an unrealistic expectation. And though I'm opposed to affirmative action, as you know, I do see the benefit to the NFL's minority hiring rules for coaches. (Although it's a crying shame that guys like Tony Dungy or Denny Green would need ANY help getting a job.)

Like I said, in no way was a I trying to draw a comparison between the struggles of black quarterbacks or coaches and white runningbacks today. I know better. But I do think there's a silent assumption on the part of a lot of people that blacks are more "naturally suited" for certain positions than whites.

There was no reason for this to get blown out of proportion. I don't think my original post was inflammatory at all. (Especially since you and I wound up essentially agreeing on a race issue.)

[DCsportsfan53]

Exactly. I didn't expect you to be the one with the sack to answer the question. Fire off some sarcastic BS instead. That'll help the dialogue.

I just think that it's silly to assume that. Does it happen occasionally? Sure, probably does. But football is about results, man. If the white guy can run better, he'll play. That's not why Lumsden isn't here. I think it's an awfully big stretch to make the assumption you're making in this thread.

[Teller]

I just think that it's silly to assume that. Does it happen occasionally? Sure, probably does. But football is about results, man. If the white guy can run better, he'll play. That's not why Lumsden isn't here. I think it's an awfully big stretch to make the assumption you're making in this thread.

Likewise, then, if a guy's a good enough coach, he'll get the job, right? It's performance based. Owners want to win championships. Can you name one current owner in the NFL who wouldn't hire a black coach if he thought the guy could win a Super Bowl?

I know. That's different.

[DjTj]

I just think that it's silly to assume that. Does it happen occasionally? Sure, probably does. But football is about results, man. If the white guy can run better, he'll play. That's not why Lumsden isn't here. I think it's an awfully big stretch to make the assumption you're making in this thread.

32 starting RB's in the NFL - all black. 64 starting CB's - all black. I don't think you can reach that result based on performance alone.

Now it doesn't all occur at the NFL level, and probably very little of it occurs at the NFL level. Kids from a very young age are probably pushed towards certain positions or away from certain positions because of unconscious biases. Kids in different situations may be pushed towards certain sports. There are no combines or workout statistics at the peewee or even at the high school level - coaches across the country make thousands of judgment calls, and it's not hard to imagine how they might look for a particular image of a running back or cornerback. That kind of subconscious bias is the only way I can explain the fact that there are zero white RB's and zero white CB's.

For a contrast, look at the NBA. There's a Chinese guy playing all-star center. There are Eastern Europeans playing power forward. There are shooting guards from South America. A Canadian is the best point guard in the league ... The majority of the NBA is black players, sure, but at every position, there is still more than one non-black player performing at a very high level. Why isn't that the case for RB's and CB's in football? I think you have to conclude that there's some element of race involved.

[Teller]

Hey, this is fun when you're on my side, Tj. I feel like Kuwait in the first Gulf War, looking around at the U.S. tanks like, "OK, you guys got this? Cool. Call us when it's over." :laugh:

[Hooper]

He has had numerous chances and he didn't stick.

CFL Hero, NFL Zero.

[DCsportsfan53]

Likewise, then, if a guy's a good enough coach, he'll get the job, right? It's performance based. Owners want to win championships. Can you name one current owner in the NFL who wouldn't hire a black coach if he thought the guy could win a Super Bowl?

I know. That's different.

It's different because you're comparing more tangible things, like athletic ability, to less tangible things like mental competence and leadership.

I don't know when the last time you got out to a basketball court to play ball was but, everytime I go, it's usually not the white guys dunking all over the place and blowing by people left and right. :laugh:

There ARE legitimate athletic differences there. Take sprinting and field and track for example. People of African decent dominant that those sports almost exclusively and for a reason. It just so happens that CB and RB are positions that require more innate athleticism than most.