skinsn24 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Jumbo, I don't really think you can blame failure on Gibbs. As bad as things may be, he's done better than any other coach we've had since he left the first time. In three years, he has one playoff appearance and one playoff victory. How many years did Norv coach? Marty wasn't given much of a chance, but who's fault was that? Robiskie? Same thing. Spurrier? H Yep, very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Cerrato has been here since Snyder bought the team EXCEPT when Schottenheimer fired him. We made some of our best decisions that year. Antonio Pierce, getting rid of Deion, etc. We drafted Rod Gardner instead of Santana Moss. Deion played decent ball for us the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn24 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 We drafted Rod Gardber instead of Santana Moss. Deion played decent ball for us the year before. Remember chad johnson was in the draft as well, i am pretty sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn24 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Wow the 2001 WR draft was more than interesting. The first 3 teams messed up horribly and everyone else who wanted a WR after got the goods. 8. David Terrell-CHi 9. Koren Robinson-Seattle 15. Rod Garnder-Wash those were the first 3 wrs and all busted. Here is what happened next 16. Santana Moss-Jets----Probowl 25. Freddie mitchel-iggles-BUST 30. Reggie Wayne-Indy---Stellar 33. Quincy Morgan-Cleveland-Bust for the most part 36- Chad Johnson--Cinci-Possbile HOF 41. Robert Ferguseon-GB-Serciveable for a while 52. Chris Chambers-Mia----Good, always could be better 74. Steve Smith-Caronlina-GREAT ......Then 7th round-TJ Housmanzada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I'm with ya Hailskinz, you're preaching to an original voice in the Joe Gibbs choir. Anyone who knows me here won't be surprised to know that no way am I giving up the faith on JG, just as I have said. I am echoing what Joe himself says, and pointing out that while Vinny may "suck" or whatever, he's not the great source of Redskin disaster he's held up as on the board---he just isn't that powerful. It's fine to boot him for his lackings, but it is the judgment errors of the ones above him I hope are being addressed (I believe they are). So notice I held all the coaches responsible for personnel decisions too, with Joe inevitably as the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 It's fine to boot him for his lackings, but it is the judgment errors of the ones above him I hope are being addressed (I believe they are). So notice I held all the coaches responsible for personnel decisions too, with Joe inevitably as the bottom line. Especially the position coaches. Who have thoroughly evaluated incoming Free Agents. They should know better than anyone if a player can fit their system. If Vinny gets them the film and arranges a workout, then how is it his mistake for giving the coaches what they want? Stop letting the position coaches off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel2 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Per PFT........VINNY TWISTING IN THE WIND? We reported several weeks ago that big changes could be coming to the Redskins front office after the draft, but there were no specifics as to who might stay and who might go. The current scuttlebutt in league circles is that V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato could be out as soon as right after the draft, and as late as the end of the season -- if the team doesn't win at least 10 games in 2007. Cerrato was fired by the Redskins during the Marty Schottenheimer era, but was brought back by owner Daniel Snyder after Schottenheimer was cut loose after only one season. Some league insiders thought that current coach Joe Gibbs would have run Cerrato off by now, but Vinny has made it through three seasons under the Hall-of-Famer. Frankly, we're not sure why Cerrato should be held accountable for anything, since the widespread belief is that Snyder and Gibbs are the ones calling the shots. For sure something has got to give in this arena. I still think that Dan has the final OK on all moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 We drafted Rod Gardner instead of Santana Moss. Deion played decent ball for us the year before. Deion may have played decent, but no where near the contract we gave him nor what we expected. More of a distraction, so I'd say that signing him actually hurt us because he also got to keep part of his signing bonus when he "retired" from playing... for Schottenheimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Originally Posted by JumboBottom line, I don't think Vinny (or Dan) has been our biggest problem (at least of the problems we have control over). In the last three years, barring injuries, I believe it's been Gibbs getting back in the groove, including with personnel choices, and the general structure (so many chiefs) and changes (Al). Cerrato provided the players... Bruce Smith, Deion, Mark Carrier, that we severely overpaid for. Heprovided the RB for Spurrier... TRUNG CANIDATE. Dan Snyder signs who he is recommended to by his personnel people... Cerrato is the Right hand man to Dan before Gibbs got here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Cerrato provided the players... Bruce Smith, Deion, Mark Carrier, that we severely overpaid for. Heprovided the RB for Spurrier... TRUNG CANIDATE. Dan Snyder signs who he is recommended to by his personnel people... Cerrato is the Right hand man to Dan before Gibbs got here... Dan was all a-twitter on his own about some of those pre-Gibbs guys. Dan wanted Smith & Deion the moment they were available and sent Vinnie to check them out. Dan also made it openly clear that as the new guy with the $$$ he would open the purse wide to win a SB. He had candyland in his eyes and he & Cerrato became a codependent spendaholic couple. Assuming Cerrato is the yes man that everyone says, it only makes sense it would play a major role back when Dan was The Voice--pre Marty. But I know Vinnie took the lead on Carrier and other deals, too. I don't know that Spurrier paid attention to anything that didn't involve "a little pitch and catch." So even back then, it wasn't all Cerrato making the personnel calls. But when making my point, I referred my remarks specifically to the Gibbs II era as Gibbs calls the final shots on players. What I'm saying in a nutshell, is Vinnie is (should be) given as many names for him to "research" as the names he originates. His competence in researching and presenting info on either group is what I question. I just hold the coaches most accountable in the end for knowing whether football players and the people paid to suggest or evaluate them are good at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn24 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I don't know that Spurrier paid attention to anything that didn't involve "a little pitch and catch." Now that is a hilarious statment. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I really dont know how much water that holds since Snyder has been so adamant in his support of Cerrato all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsman4u Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Our organization is more about relationships than business. Oh Dan knows Cerrato isn't getting it done. And Dan also knows Cerrato's family and there are agenda's. And as a whole our Redskins are really all about: I know his wife and he has a great son and so and so has a new born. While Teams like New England's Head Coach walks around with a hoody, and wants to only know what standard do we need to meet to be where we want to be. Our Redskin games are really nothing but a big tailgate. We only want the high profile pick because we can't coach our players and put them in the right position. We gave no vision and can't make the right adjustment. I'm hoping you're reading so you can get mad and prove me wrong. But I don't think championship is in you. Is it in you? He hate me? Good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 ...skinsman...are you hearing the voices again?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 We've never really been told that [that Gibbs has the final say]. Joe himself said that it is a colelctive thing and if he and the GM (Cerrato) come to a disagreement, then the owner breaks the tie. Dan Snyder told us when Gibbs came back that Joe would have the final say on all football related matters. Break the tie? Are you saying that Cerrato and Gibbs have equal juice and Snyder breaks the ties between them? You aren't thinking it through. Joe calls the shots. Vinnie and Snyder have input. The coaches have input. Obviously Snyder carries more weight if he wants to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Dan Snyder told us when Gibbs came back that Joe would have the final say on all football related matters. Break the tie? Are you saying that Cerrato and Gibbs have equal juice and Snyder breaks the ties between them?You aren't thinking it through. Joe calls the shots. Vinnie and Snyder have input. The coaches have input. I'm thinking it through. That was the original plan with Gibbs-Beathard-Cooke. It was either Spurrier or Gibbs who said that is how it would be when they became coach. Coach-Gm-Owner relationship. Obviously Snyder carries more weight if he wants to use it. So Gibbs may not have the final say? You know what, it really doesn matter. Gibbs may call the "final shots" as everyone likes to , but if Gregg Williams pleads enough for him to get Archuleta, it is going to happen. The point is, Cerrato has no justification for keeping his job. Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Mark Carrier to ridiculous contracts. Trung Canidate as a starting RB? Trading Portis AND a second rounder for Bailey. We could have gotten the second out of Denver. Cerrato would be a terrible Day Trader... always buying high and selling low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I don't know that Spurrier paid attention to anything that didn't involve "a little pitch and catch." So even back then, it wasn't all Cerrato making the personnel calls.But when making my point, I referred my remarks specifically to the Gibbs II era as Gibbs calls the final shots on players. What I'm saying in a nutshell, is Vinnie is (should be) given as many names for him to "research" as the names he originates. His competence in researching and presenting info on either group is what I question. I just hold the coaches most accountable in the end for knowing whether football players and the people paid to suggest or evaluate them are good at what they do. In defense of Spurrier, look at who he had to work with. TRUNG CANIDATE was the starting RB. Who was the starting QB? no one starting on an NFL team now. Dan knew nothing more than one of us in terms of player personnel in the NFL, so he relied on Vinny to tell him about Smith and Sanders. All Vinny had to do was say the truth, these guys would not help our team and paying them these huge contracts is a big mistake. We added those players to a 10-6 division champ team plus Lavar and Samuels and FAIL to make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Just wondering what's the hold up on this one? They obviously aren't going to fire him now, but will we ever get rid of the Vinster? Also, I thought we were supposed to wipe out our scouting department after the draft, I guess that didn't happen either :doh1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thanks for bringing down the board's post draft LaRon Landry high. Party pooper:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Considering all the gushing compliments of the players brought in, I would guess that Vinny's job is safe for another year, if it was truely in danger. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thanks for bringing down the board's post draft LaRon Landry high. Party pooper:mad: :laugh: I just wanted to see if people have changed their view of hating Cerrato, at least temporarily, and it appears that most have. I was looking forward to seeing him go prior to the draft, but like most others I just can't seem to find the hate that I had right now. Maybe things will work out...I certiainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 First...great use of 'scuttlebutt'Second...gotta love how it's either boot him right after the draft OR after the season is a flop... It's gotta be after the draft...we can't wait until the end of another disappointing season to make our FO changes...with the June 1st cuts on the way and such...it's best to get our FO going to start May in a properly and with things in place... Or at least before the start of Training Camp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 :laugh: I just wanted to see if people have changed their view of hating Cerrato, at least temporarily, and it appears that most have.I was looking forward to seeing him go prior to the draft, but like most others I just can't seem to find the hate that I had right now. Maybe things will work out...I certiainly hope so. I STILL don't like him. I think Gibbs and Snyder had more to do with this pick than Cerrato did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan81 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 We can only hope that Cerrato is gone. The sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnie007 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I STILL don't like him. I think Gibbs and Snyder had more to do with this pick than Cerrato did. Don't forget GW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.