My Thoughts on Being a Fan

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yea that is true, but what the dude said was almost 100% dead on correct. We all should have agreeded with him. Do you really beleive if the We's had been replaced with I, people would not have bashed him? I doubt it

Edit: that actually doesnt help with the context at all. That was one person giving a possible reason why people were upset. It wasnt said by all the negative posters.

It's not about being correct. Being correct doesn't, and shouldn't, negate how someone voices their opinion. A few too many people tend to act arrogant and self-righteous in their negative analysis and opinions, and it brings out responses like the ones you quoted.

I somehow doubt that if anyone had said "I'm starting to feel as if this season won't go too well, the preseason performances have been lackluster and I'm not quite sold on whether the FA additions will pan out", that anyone would have reacted in the same manner. It's natural to have questions and doubts, but it's condescending to announce those questions and doubts as undisputable fact and tell people they need to wake up and agree that they are. A few too many around here do just that and then claim to be the martyr when the expectant backlash results.

[skinsn24]

it's condescending to announce those questions and doubts as undisputable fact and tell people they need to wake up and agree that they are. A few too many around here do just that and then claim to be the martyr when the expectant backlash results.

Turns out they were facts and undisputable. It was based on previous facts. I agree he was a dick about it afterwards, but he said what he beleived, and he beleived strongly, not just "starting to think"

Either way 2 wrongs dont make a right. You say because he was condecending it is ok for others to attack? But yet he was prob condecening because people prob attacked him before...its a never ending cycle untill someone steps up and becomes the bigger man

[FuriousD]

Has anyone ever actually said that?

Or is this another textbook case of ...

Sure they have! Remember this doozy?

Dear too many people to name,

Why are you a Redskins fan?

Honestly if pessimism is all you can muster what is the point?

It's not like you're married to the Redskins. You're a fan by choice.

If it is always SO bad that every single thing they do illicit nothing but complaints, why on earth do you stay?

Don't tell me it's out of some blind love for the team, you'd never treat anything else you love this way.

You owe the team nothing, and vice versa.. being a fan is an option. You can go bowling on Sundays.. ride a bike.. anything. You could even become a Colts or Patriots fan. They do everything right, and would certainly ease your stress.

Of course, most would make out of this that I am a blind homer who thinks everything they do is right, and that would not be the case. I recognize when they screw up, but I can also see when they don't, and I can be happy for it. I am not required to flagellate myself this offseason because last season didn't turn out so well. I am not required to whine about Anotnio Pierce at every single turn.

Some seem to think of nothing else. We signed London Fletcher, oh, well boo hoo antonio pierce boo hoo last year boo hoo everything wah wah wah.

it's one thing to point out mistakes and complain with a point, but to just generally b1tch and moan like a whole hell of a lot of you do doesn't really seem to have a point except to just b1tch for b1tching's sake

It's a fair question. Why do you stay?

~Bang

[box8276]

The skins are like my children. I gripe and complain about them, yet i still feed them (driving 6 hours and paying out the ass for tix) but at the end of the day i still love them and will defend them if someone talks bad about them. Using this analogy, that would make all of us brothers and sisters. So in a way i understand all this squabbling going on but on the other hand i wish we had a big skins daddy who would come in and spank yalls asses for acting like whiney lil kids.

[Art]

Skinsn, thanks for proving the point I made.

People who come here and make statements that make it impossible to tell them from a Cowboy fan likely will be treated like one. The fan in the thread you put forward is a perfect example of garbage treated like trash. As Cali said, and gets, it is largely irrelevant if a person is right or wrong. It's how one presents himself in expressing that viewpoint. I'd rip that thread apart this very day AFTER all of that happened, because it's so easy to rip apart.

[BAFGA]

OM, I would suggest that you go and read this thread, but i think you already have because you were invovled in another thread, where this one was brought up.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166559

A fan said something negative (which turned out to be very true) here are some responces:

"MOVE BACK TO DALLAS JACKASS"

"How about the door?~Bang"

"Someone please show this guy the door."

"when we win our 8th game somone ban this chicken little scum"

Funny thing about the original poster of that thread is, if you look at some of the posts that he made during the season they were all of the "I told you so" variety. Maybe he thinks he is Miss Cleo?

[Art]

Thinking,

I don't believe I've ever had a true negative impression of you, but perhaps I'm wrong. The point you make, using Mr. Madd as an example of what you're discussing is an excellent one. Madd generally has a hard time with cap issues, but, beyond that, he is a poser by choice. He'd tell you the same. He's not near the dink he presents himself as. He just thinks it works for him. But, he's tone deaf on any issue that is remotely positive, fair, balanced, or insightful. Understand, if we go 14-2 this year, which is certainly plausible with a healthy team and an emerging QB in Campbell -- that's not a prediction, but, not out of the realm of what happens in the league -- and he'd be telling you how Snyder, after months of hammering him as being a key decision maker, has nothing to do with the success that comes about. He'll bypass the positives to find a negative post. He does it for show, but there are others here who haven't learned the benefit of being modestly balanced in how they write their posts and they aren't smart enough to do it on purpose.

[Om]

OM, I would suggest that you go and read this thread, but i think you already have because you were invovled in another thread, where this one was brought up.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166559

A fan said something negative (which turned out to be very true) here are some responces:

"MOVE BACK TO DALLAS JACKASS"

"How about the door?~Bang"

"Someone please show this guy the door."

"when we win our 8th game somone ban this chicken little scum"

And I suggest you read THIS thread, my friend, given that I've already addressed this exact issue related to that same exact old thread with another poster who dredged it up and presented it without even a nod to the concept of context.

[Thinking Skins]

There are times that I do question why some people on this board are still fans of the team, when they seem to hate every way the team is run. By now, we all know about Snyder and we know how he likes to organize his front office. To sit around and hope that he will change the fundamental way he runs things is naive.

If you are a guy who thinks Snyder is all about the money and doesn't care if he puts a good product on the field, I am going to question why you are still a fan. I mean, if nothing Snyder does is going to amount to anything, why bother? It is a reason why I'm not an Orioles fan anymore, because that's pretty much how I felt about Peter Angelos. When in your own mind you don't believe ownership is doing what it can to win, I am going to call you out.

You make it seem a lot easier than it is. The Redskins are the only team I've known my entire life. They're like an addiction. Thats the reason why I spend countless hours here per week reading through threads and talking about them. So I refuse to let a guy who I think is ruining the franchise be the reason for me to stop being a fan. So whats the alternative? Well, there's always the hope that I can mount enough of a campaign to get him to sell the team.

You don't see people who are addicted to cigarettes just stop smoking because the price went up, as Snyder loves to do with Redskins ticket prices. You don't see alcaholics stop drinking because Budweiser put out a new crappy flavor of beer, like Snyder keeps putting out crappy teams. So even if all I have to hang onto are my childhood memories of the Redskins being a dominant force in the NFL. Thats enough to keep me as a fan. but just like an alcaholic will let you know why he doesn't like Bud Light, I'll voice my opinion on why I don't like Snyder's crappy teams. Whether you agree or disagree it your call, but I just don't see it necessary to question a guy's credentials as a fan.

[Thinking Skins]

I have to admit, as I started out reading the school analogy that was made I found myself thinking how rather insightful it was....but then, by the end of the post, I'd realized that it really doesn't apply here. On the surface, Thinking guy, you make some good points but underneath there is a definite disconnect. There are far too many factors involved in football to make so simple an analogy. Students and how parents deal with them vary from family to family...and, in football, salary caps and unforeseen events (such as injuries) play a much greater role in outcome than similar things would in a student's performance in school. At least on an equally consistent basis.

Check the reply I made to CallMeGreen.

[Taylor 36]

There are times that I do question why some people on this board are still fans of the team, when they seem to hate every way the team is run. By now, we all know about Snyder and we know how he likes to organize his front office. To sit around and hope that he will change the fundamental way he runs things is naive.

If you are a guy who thinks Snyder is all about the money and doesn't care if he puts a good product on the field, I am going to question why you are still a fan. I mean, if nothing Snyder does is going to amount to anything, why bother? It is a reason why I'm not an Orioles fan anymore, because that's pretty much how I felt about Peter Angelos. When in your own mind you don't believe ownership is doing what it can to win, I am going to call you out.

But, there aren't many people who fit that description. Most of us do believe that the ownership is trying to build a winner, just that they are not doing a very good job of it. For that, I won't question whether or not you are a fan. Even I have been critical of some moves the FO has made. There are times, tho, that the oppressive negativeism on this board does get to me, and I need to fight the good fight, because I do believe that we are at least on the right path, even if it is rocky right now.

Jason

Well said, Jason.:applause:

[Taylor 36]

.....

So the bigger difference between parents and fans is that fans have far less direct control of the situation at hand. Parenting is far from a spectator-only process. Without going too far off-track, "standing around and watching" is probably something that too many parents do. But parents aren't just into raising kids for the entertainment value. Fans are spectators for pretty much that reason. It's an escape from work, an escape from parenting, an escape from daily stressful events.

Having said all that, fans do have some choices. They can observe, hope for the best, jump on or off the bandwagon, sell or buy game tickets, turn the TV on or off or they can come on this website and say their piece. They can also sit by quietly or be vocal opinionists. All are fair expressions of fandom. Strictly speaking for myself however, vocal opinions carry more weight with me if they're well thought out and offer constructive solutions. Otherwise, it's just blowing smoke (also allowed) and something I often ignore.

Excellent post,and I agree 100%. Parents SHOULD be playing the part of coaches more than the teachers.

I guess that makes the mods are parents and they are coaching the boards.:laugh:

[Thinking Skins]

Thinking,

I don't believe I've ever had a true negative impression of you, but perhaps I'm wrong. The point you make, using Mr. Madd as an example of what you're discussing is an excellent one. Madd generally has a hard time with cap issues, but, beyond that, he is a poser by choice. He'd tell you the same. He's not near the dink he presents himself as. He just thinks it works for him. But, he's tone deaf on any issue that is remotely positive, fair, balanced, or insightful. Understand, if we go 14-2 this year, which is certainly plausible with a healthy team and an emerging QB in Campbell -- that's not a prediction, but, not out of the realm of what happens in the league -- and he'd be telling you how Snyder, after months of hammering him as being a key decision maker, has nothing to do with the success that comes about. He'll bypass the positives to find a negative post. He does it for show, but there are others here who haven't learned the benefit of being modestly balanced in how they write their posts and they aren't smart enough to do it on purpose.

I can't defend Mr. Madd because I haven't read too much from him. But what I have read (given, it has been criticism) has been pretty insightful. As far as myself, I've always tried to be level-headed, not jumping to conclusions on either end. And especially with the hope that the 2005 season brought, I was pretty optimistic about Gibbs II. But after the offseason of 2006, and actually defending the front office for the moves they made (because I figured, thats what a fan is supposed to do), I'm kinda left believing that Snyder hasn't changed one bit from his inagural offseason.

Thats why right now, I'm hesitant to say things like "that was a good move" or "we're on the right track" because at least lately, it seems like we've been lucking into those good things and, they have not been by strategy. Chaos theory tells you that if you stay in the game long enough, eventually you'll get a win. So I don't doubt that we can make A GOOD MOVE, or even have A GOOD OFFSEASON. But what I am beginning to doubt is that we have the mental capacities in our front office to put together a plan of action that warrants building a team over a set of years, and not just trying to be overnight champions.

I went through this same type of frustration with the Bullets, whom I've also always been a fan, but never got a chance to see them in the 70s. Every year I looked at the teams they put together and wondered if they would ever do anything remotely close to successful. So while I was a fan, I would actively voice my displeasure with the front office based on the decisions they made. I'm glad I didn't just throw in the towel as a fan because its seasons like this one (especially November and December when I was going to games screaming "Arenas is MVP"), that I make me really enjoy being a fan again.

[skinsn24]

And I suggest you read THIS thread, my friend, given that I've already addressed this exact issue related to that same exact old thread with another poster who dredged it up and presented it without even a nod to the concept of context.

Ouch, i messed up there. My bad. I had read the thread and read the post, just didnt realize it was the same exact thread. My bad, sorry.

[skinsn24]

Skinsn, thanks for proving the point I made.

People who come here and make statements that make it impossible to tell them from a Cowboy fan likely will be treated like one. The fan in the thread you put forward is a perfect example of garbage treated like trash.

Art, treating people like trash based on football opinion is a big statement.

2 wrongs dont make a right.

Even members that have stickies at the top of certain forums of this board and have been quoated in this thread, attack people who dare say anything negative. Is this poster part of this "cowboy" type fan trash as well?

A thread was even started (meaning no negative attack was placed on him) calling out any negative skins fan. I would hope he is not a cowboy type fan because that would mean we have cowboy type fans with stickies on this forum.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I've yet to hear someone say, "...if you criticize the Redskins, you're not a fan..." That's a bunch of b.s. IMO. You're another one of those fans that just missed the "Glory Days" (as most people call it). You have no reason to believe in Gibbs b/c all you know is what you see now. Gibbs picked up this team the second go around when things were just bad and being pooly managed. I believe that he is turning things around, and just like anything it takes time. You've got way too many analogies, and not enough trust and faith in the guy that most believe is running the show.

Snyder knows he had no choice but to hire Gibbs for a second term in hopes of making this a winning franchise. He's done that, we're going to go through some growing pains, and people like you have to show faith and patience. It sounds to me like you have no faith, hope, or confidence in this team. Fans that criticize are right to do so, but fans that have no faith, hope, trust, or confidence in the team (that has a winning HOF coach to boot) they "root" for aren't fans. Frontrunner comes to mind Just my :2cents: not meant to offend .

HTTR

[hail2skins]

Snyder knows he had no choice but to hire Gibbs for a second term in hopes of making this a winning franchise.

Really?

So when Gibbs retires, we should just throw in the towel, because no one else on the face of the earth can turn the Skins around?

[Thinking Skins]

I've yet to hear someone say, "...if you criticize the Redskins, you're not a fan..." That's a bunch of b.s. IMO. You're another one of those fans that just missed the "Glory Days" (as most people call it). You have no reason to believe in Gibbs b/c all you know is what you see now. Gibbs picked up this team the second go around when things were just bad and being pooly managed. I believe that he is turning things around, and just like anything it takes time. You've got way too many analogies, and not enough trust and faith in the guy that most believe is running the show.

Thats all I've got to say for those people who love to sing that same old tune. Read my earlier posts and understand that not only did I live through the glory days, but those are the days I long for as a fan again.

But keep singing that tune. Eventually, you may hit the right note with somebody.

[Guest sk1nzHEAD]

I can't agree with you more in saying that you cheer for your team when they are successful, and criticize them when they are not. you care about them.

[JTNumber7]

:point2sky I think that any real fan has the right to criticize the FO, especially given the pathetic record that Snyder has put together during his tenure. The only exception to this rule is "Smokin'" Al Koken, who is actually a spy from St. Louis and should be taken out back of Sportstalk 980 and shot. But I digress ...

I believe that Snyder wants to win. He just doesn't know how. He wants to control everything, so he can't have anyone more authoritative than linguini-spined Vinny working for him. I think that if the NFL didn't have a salary cap, Snyder would be the Steinbrenner of the league, buying up every player in sight. Of course, that doesn't mean that we would have the best team as a result.

I am an optimist because I can't stand not to be. I believe that for a man, sports teams are like women. In your lifetime, you can only really give your heart completely to one. For me, that team is the Skins. Snyder certainly does make it hard to keep that infatuation going, though.

[skinsn24]

I recently was asked multiple times if i was a puke fan by a Mod, because i wrote something negative about the redskins.

I said, no i love the redskins, then was told i seem like a puke fan.

It is like ok i dont think everyplayer on the redskins is top 3 at there position, so i must be a puke fan.

[Om]

I recently was asked multiple times if i was a puke fan by a Mod, because i wrote something negative about the redskins.

I said, no i love the redskins, then was told i seem like a puke fan.

It is like ok i dont think everyplayer on the redskins is top 3 at there position, so i must be a puke fan.

Oh please.

Not sure who you're referring to, but I'm willing to bet what was said wasn't because "you wrote something negative about the Skins." More likely it was for the same reason some others get questioned about their fandom from time to time---because 99.9% of everything you have to say is negative. Surely you can appreciate how in cases like that it is impossible to distinguish between a fan of the Redskins and a fan of another team simply here to stir the pot.

If it walks like a duck ...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I recently was asked multiple times if i was a puke fan by a Mod, because i wrote something negative about the redskins.

I said, no i love the redskins, then was told i seem like a puke fan.

It is like ok i dont think everyplayer on the redskins is top 3 at there position, so i must be a puke fan.

You oversimplified what happened so much that even I don't recognize it, and I was there observing and taking part in it lol... :doh:

[The Sisko]

I must say I wasn't at all surprised to see this type of response from Art. However, I'm extremely disappointed in Om. Usually, in fact always prior to this, he's been much smarter than that.

In spite of Art and Om's protestations, even a casual member would quickly recognize the type of caustic vitriol directed at almost anyone who dares write anything bad about the team...no matter how well reasoned and thought out the post happens to be. However, that you guys seem to think that we're all so dumb that we can't tell the difference between a flamer/troll and someone who actually has valid criticisms against the team is, quite frankly an insult to our collective intelligence.

All you have to do for a good example of this is go back and look at almost any of the threads from last pre-season. In most cases someone would say something like "Wow, our offense really looks putrid. I'm beginning to worry about whether we can just turn it on like a lightbulb when the season begins". (A perfectly valid worry/criticism BTW, even without the benefit of hindsight) Then all the well-reasoned "Shut up chicken little, we're going to the Super Bowl" posts would ensue followed by Bubba saying something equally insightful like "Gibbs has won 3 Super Bowls, he's God. You think you actually know more than him about running a team?"

The pattern was much the same in the debates about Brunell and long before that when ASF made some very good, well thought out arguments about Kim Helton and other shortcomings of the SOS era.

Sorry guys but what Thinking Skins is complaining of is alive and well here-whether you all decide to admit it or not. Generally speaking, if you say anything negative about the team, you're at risk of having your fan loyalty questioned...at least until the ones doing the questioning start looking at the product on the field and join the chorus.

Finally, I'd like to ask both Om and Art to examine the results on the field and ask yourselves one question. Could it just somehow be that perhaps those folks who have had more bad to say than good about the team over the years might just have been right about the team all along and THAT'S why they've been so negative?

[skinsn24]

You oversimplified what happened so much that even I don't recognize it, and I was there observing and taking part in it lol... :doh:

:doh: LOL you jumped in at the last second and refused to read the whole thing, stating you didnt need to understand the whole arguement. Notice again you come to homers defense, when it doesnt invovle you.

Fact of the matter was I was asked by you if i was a skins fan, I said, yes of course I am, just havent seen anything positive almost my whole life. About 1 post later i was accused of being a puke fan.

Hey this just in, people critize the government but they are still american right?