My Thoughts on Being a Fan

[skinsn24]

Oh please.

Not sure who you're referring to, but I'm willing to bet what was said wasn't because "you wrote something negative about the Skins." More likely it was for the same reason some others get questioned about their fandom from time to time---because 99.9% of everything you have to say is negative. Surely you can appreciate how in cases like that it is impossible to distinguish between a fan of the Redskins and a fan of another team simply here to stir the pot.

If it walks like a duck ...

Oh Please.

1. Give me something to be postive about and I will....go look what i said when smoot was resigned. I was very happy or even when we got Macklin i was happy as well. Same with fletcher. I

2. Just because someone has a negative outlook doesnt mean they should be lashed out at or talked to in a sarcastic tone.

3. This board would be no fun without differing opinions

4. Why is it that we want this "big brother" mentality on this board where we all say the same exact stuff.

Lastly, Ok so some of us are negative, i mean we have 1 division title in 14 years, but here is an idea, instead of chastise us negative people and call us puke fans, lets have a civil debate.

Lets understand we differ in opinion and try to offer facts, as we know our opinions will differ. Then we could end an arguement with:

"hey, i dont agree with you, but i know we both hope the the skins rock this year. Cheers."

Instead of "go back to dallas" or "your not a real fan"

I dont know, i just think people get a little carried away online, i would love to see home many of these people talk like this in person.

[PorkSkins]

People always say more in a blog or an e-mail. It's kind of like what liquid courage does to you. I would bet that if you met any loyal Skins fan in person, there would be nothing but optimism for the upcoming season. This is just a chance to blow off some steam before we get ready for some serious Redskins football.

[Art]

I recently was asked multiple times if i was a puke fan by a Mod, because i wrote something negative about the redskins.

I said, no i love the redskins, then was told i seem like a puke fan.

It is like ok i dont think everyplayer on the redskins is top 3 at there position, so i must be a puke fan.

Total and complete baloney. You just used your get out of jail card. If I ever see you lie again, you won't ever be back here. Do not even reply to this. You need to make sure I don't see your name across my screen for a while. This is your opportunity to self moderate. If you don't, I will do it for you.

[TheLongshot]

Sorry guys but what Thinking Skins is complaining of is alive and well here-whether you all decide to admit it or not. Generally speaking, if you say anything negative about the team, you're at risk of having your fan loyalty questioned...at least until the ones doing the questioning start looking at the product on the field and join the chorus.

I think you do if you are one of those guys who are consistantly negative on the team, no matter what. There certainly is a minority on this board that fits that description. Those are the only ones who I question their motivation, because they never seem to add anything constructive to the debate.

Actually, I think people who do make good arguments for their position do get the respect for their position. Certainly, I'd give it to them. It is those who make bad arguments, have them shot down, then continue to make the same bad arguments that get on my nerves.

Personally, I don't think you are one of those guys, Yusef. Your perspective is always welcome, even if I don't always agree with it.

Jason

[bubba9497]

I recently was asked multiple times if i was a puke fan by a Mod, because i wrote something negative about the redskins.

I said, no i love the redskins, then was told i seem like a puke fan.

It is like ok i dont think everyplayer on the redskins is top 3 at there position, so i must be a puke fan.

not exactly the way it happened, nor the reason I said it was because of the fact you don't think that every Redskin is top three at their position :laugh:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196309&page=10&pp=40

First I am not a mod, but staff.. technicality

Two, I asked you once as a joking crack because of you're repeatedly jumped in on my debate with TonyRomo attacking my stance

Dude are you a Poke fan? seriously

and the second time wasn't even posted to you

Amazing...Bubba actually QUOTES an impartial foot analyst who ranks Dockery higher than YOU feel he should be ranked, and you decide that it's BUBBA who's not "living in reality". I don't know if that's a sign of arrogance or stupidity or both...but it's not good.

Both :laugh:

I love the I don't want to believe it so it's not true argument

one reason why I think he is a closet Poke fan

you know a crack like when you a couple pages later called me a kool aid drinking homer, and other cracks after my Dallas fan crack

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196309&page=11&pp=40

You have no logic

You have lost all credibility

I find it funny that you think you are godly or untouchable. The only repuatation you have is 1. of someone who is good at posting articles he finds on the web under the breaking news section and i applaud you for that as i enjoy reading them. 2. The ultimate homer, who thinks that everything is ok all the time. "We have 1 division title in 14 years, but we are a top team in the nfl"

:dunce:

As a Redskin fan your blind optimism makes me sick, but i can deal with it, its your arrogance that is so bothersome.

I can only imagine how you come off in person, because i figure you are one of these type of people who will go to war over the internet but wouldnt dare say half the things you do in person. :type:

I have been wrong on this board before and I have admitted it. You are unable to do so. Am i a puke fan? HELL NO, but you make it easy for people to hate redskins fans.

:koolaid:Kool Aid Goes into Bubba--> :idea: Thinks about his next post ---> :coach:-Screams out opinions as facts that can never be disputed--> :bsflag:outcomes the usual result

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196309&page=11&pp=40

[Califan007 The Constipated]

In spite of Art and Om's protestations, even a casual member would quickly recognize the type of caustic vitriol directed at almost anyone who dares write anything bad about the team...no matter how well reasoned and thought out the post happens to be.

I call complete and utter bull**** on this comment. And that's not my opinion, that is bonafide indisputable fact. The evidence is overwhelming that a reasoned and well thought-out criticism of the Skins and their FO does NOT get greeted with "caustic vitriol", and instead usually leads to lengthy, well-versed debate...the evidence of this is everywhere. Only the intentionally blind could fail to see it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think bubba just put it to rest lol...the "I just said something negative about the Skins and I was accused of being a Cowboys fan by a mod" twaddle won't stand up very well when anyone actually reads the posts.

[Art]

Cali seems to get it. You'd hope a guy like Yusuf would as well as long as he's been around. Back a few years we were 0-5 and I wrote Marty's tenure was done here. It was certainly a negative post. It was even highly debated. No one doubted I loved the team. How could this be? How can I make a negative comment and be generally seen as a board optimist? How can I be the only person who consistently holds Gibbs accountable -- well, other than Gibbs himself -- here for the team's failures, yet, not be seen as a Cowboy fan?

Yusuf knows as well as any here what posts will be met with questions and what won't, and, generally, it doesn't matter if they are "positive" or "negative" in tone. It matters how the message is delivered. It has since the beginning. That won't change.

[The Sisko]

I call complete and utter bull**** on this comment. And that's not my opinion, that is bonafide indisputable fact. The evidence is overwhelming that a reasoned and well thought-out criticism of the Skins and their FO does NOT get greeted with "caustic vitriol", and instead usually leads to lengthy, well-versed debate...the evidence of this is everywhere. Only the intentionally blind could fail to see it.

Yusuf knows as well as any here what posts will be met with questions and what won't, and, generally, it doesn't matter if they are "positive" or "negative" in tone. It matters how the message is delivered. It has since the beginning. That won't change.

Well, since it's draft time I chose last year's post draft thread for some examples for a rebuttal and found what I was looking for pretty quickly in…

The Official Chicken Little Coop (Now there's a thread title that shows exactly how dissent is thought of )

So, is this

the type of "delivery" you were talking about Art? A post in which Destino simply commented that his criticism was due to the team not being very good for a long time but that he'd stick by them. The "lengthy, well-versed debate" of this comment? Well, it took less than 10 minutes for SnyderShrugged to question his loyalty as a fan. and in essence tell him to hit the bricks.

Of course, that wasn’t the end of it. Illone pointed out that Mookie0720 hadn't said anything positive about the team and thus that relegated Mookie to troll status.

Others commented that dissenters from official "fanspeak" were using decoder rings or sarcastically suggested that they thought they were NFL GMs or whether they were really fans if they complained all the time.

Look, I'm not saying every troll who trashes the team should be welcomed with open arms. However, I think those of us with the B & G glasses on should think twice before questioning the motives and loyalty of the pessimists who have proven to be right about things a lot more than kool-aid drinkers have over the last decade plus. Furthermore, to deny that this sort of thing isn't he norm here is just being, well a kool-aid drinker.

[bubba9497]

Illone pointed out that Mookie0720 hadn't said anything positive about the team

to be fair I can only remember him posting on one positive comment in like a three year period

though I would not call him a troll

just joking

he is a troll :laugh:

:jk:

[The Sisko]

:laugh: :laugh:

[Art]

Yusuf,

The problem with people in your camp is the fiction you write, thinking it's real. Let me break down the first example you give.

You say Destino simply commented that his criticism was due to the team not being very good but that he'd stick by them. In the post you linked, he didn't say he'd stick by them, he said he HAS stuck by them, BUT, he's troubled. This is a mildly different actual post than the one you present he put forward. Nothing wrong with his post either, though it was somewhat off (more on that in a moment).

Now, he was responded to by someone you say was questioning his loyalty as a fan. No where in the response you cite was his loyalty as a fan question. The question was, however, written precisely.

Why are you here if you are so disenfranchised with the Redskins?

No loyalty was questioned. The question was if the person is so unhappy, why bother sticking around at all. That's a perfectly valid, reasonable question. Destino's post was not over the top, but it was a bit silly. Saying the team has sucked for a long time when, well, just a few months before we were playing in the playoffs, would mean we hadn't sucked for a long time, we sucked at the time, and we sucked much of the time in between playoff appearances, but, we hadn't, technically, sucked for a long time.

SS even suggested HE was not happy either. And he wrote that it would be unreasonable -- and it would be -- to assume Joe Gibbs makes decisions without talking to people in the organization. He closed by saying negative fans could leave. They can. They can also stay.

In the end, it appears you think the "We suck, I'm a big fan," is ok, but, "Shut up you fake fan," is terrible. Thinking the way you do doesn't make me a kool-aid drinker. It does make you an imbecile though. If it's ok in your mind for people to make negative comments -- and it's ok in my mind for them to as well given I've made plenty -- then it's going to be ok in your mind for others to question them the way they wish.

This is the internet. There are, literally, dozens of fans posting here with Redskin fan names with IPs matching previously banned Cowboy fans. And, I GUARANTEE you that YOU defend at least one of them .

[Thinking Skins]

Yusuf,

The problem with people in your camp is the fiction you write, thinking it's real. Let me break down the first example you give.

You say Destino simply commented that his criticism was due to the team not being very good but that he'd stick by them. In the post you linked, he didn't say he'd stick by them, he said he HAS stuck by them, BUT, he's troubled. This is a mildly different actual post than the one you present he put forward. Nothing wrong with his post either, though it was somewhat off (more on that in a moment).

Now, he was responded to by someone you say was questioning his loyalty as a fan. No where in the response you cite was his loyalty as a fan question. The question was, however, written precisely.

No loyalty was questioned. The question was if the person is so unhappy, why bother sticking around at all. That's a perfectly valid, reasonable question. Destino's post was not over the top, but it was a bit silly. Saying the team has sucked for a long time when, well, just a few months before we were playing in the playoffs, would mean we hadn't sucked for a long time, we sucked at the time, and we sucked much of the time in between playoff appearances, but, we hadn't, technically, sucked for a long time.

SS even suggested HE was not happy either. And he wrote that it would be unreasonable -- and it would be -- to assume Joe Gibbs makes decisions without talking to people in the organization. He closed by saying negative fans could leave. They can. They can also stay.

In the end, it appears you think the "We suck, I'm a big fan," is ok, but, "Shut up you fake fan," is terrible. Thinking the way you do doesn't make me a kool-aid drinker. It does make you an imbecile though. If it's ok in your mind for people to make negative comments -- and it's ok in my mind for them to as well given I've made plenty -- then it's going to be ok in your mind for others to question them the way they wish.

This is the internet. There are, literally, dozens of fans posting here with Redskin fan names with IPs matching previously banned Cowboy fans. And, I GUARANTEE you that YOU defend at least one of them .

So Art, let me ask this, and understand that in no way am I trying to oversimplify the job of being a mod on this site. I have much respect for the jobs you all do. But as a guy who's been a regular here for quite a while, and as a guy who (at least in my own opinion) has a history of being both supportive and critical of the team, I'm really left to wonder how much negativity I can post before I'm called such a name.

I've always tried to use logic in my posts. I remember starting a thread about "Art Monk or Tim Brown" and being called names in that thread. I remember asking a question "Is Art Monk really a HOF WR" and being called names in that thread. I remember starting a thread suggesting that there may be possible problems with the relationship between Gibbs and Saunders, and I was criticized for challenging Gibbs's leadership skills. And as we see, these problems did come up as later in the season there were rumors that Gibbs had taken over playcalling duties in certain situations due to the team's lack of production under Saunders.

I can remember Die Hard telling me to grow thicker skin, and I understand this is a large community so maybe I shouldn't be as bothered, but sometimes I just feel like thats a low blow. And sometimes its just frustrating that in addition to dealing with the team destroying my hopes year after year, I've also got to deal with the problem that if I actually question anything the team does, then I've got to PROVE that I'm actually a Redskins fan by trying to balance my negative comments with something like (I'm against the front office but I support the team). And many times, the threads I've started have turned into threads where I'm defending myself as a Redskins fan more than I'm actually discussing the topic at hand because these threads seem to generate more "you're not a real fan" type replies than actual logical responses to my topic at hand.

[The Sisko]

Well, once again when someone makes a statement and posts actual proof Art decides to stick his head in the sand. Wow, there's a big surprise:rolleyes: Of course, I don't see you answering my question either. Pretty convenient to ignore that huh? Well, I'll ask it again just to make it more obvious when you ignore it again.

COULD IT NOT JUST BE POSSIBLE THAT THE ALLEGEDLY "OVERLY NEGATIVE PEOPLE" WHO'S LOYALTY IS BEING QUESTIONED ARE JUST CORRECT IN THEIR ANALYSIS GIVEN HOW POORLY THE TEAM HAS PERFORMED FOR SO LONG???

The answer to that question gets more to the heart of why I made the comments I did and why I agree with ThinkingSkins. That is, if we're here to actually discuss the team and analyze its prospects that's useful and interesting. However, if it's all just a big pep rally, then that isn't so useful and a lot less interesting IMHO.

In other words, I'm not saying that it's all about making nice and being civil all the time. Rather, it's about the quality of discussion on the site. I would contend that the attempts at censorship by the kool-aid drinkers degrades the quality of discussion. If you want to defend that type of behavior, that's your (and anyone else's) prerogative. However, doing so does nothing to improve things and very likely makes them worse.

Finally, it appears we think of each other in pretty much the same terms as I would imagine a moron is about equal to an imbecile.

[Art]

Yusuf,

I, rather directly, posted to your point. I didn't ignore it. I broke it down. I corrected your false characterization and the flaw and blindness is yours, friend, not mine.

TS,

You might get called a name from post to post by myself or anyone else who wishes it. And, with hope, you are agreed with from post to post by those same people. I've seen some here hold grudges against others -- see Yusuf with me as evidence. I always tend to judge each post for its own merits without allowing previous posts to cloud. So a guy who's been dumb can be smart on occassion. A guy who's been smart can be dumb the same way.

Now, here, you tread on dumb.

As has been said several times, it has nothing to do with being negative or positive in what you say about any particular issue. It's how it is presented. Two years ago I suggested the worst performer in our organization was Joe Gibbs. A very negative statement. Yet, no one questioned my status. Why?

I've questioned the release of Royal well before anyone here even knew how important he was. I've assessed Gibbs failures, correctly, being in retention, not acquisition, and wondering how he's let the internals get as out of control as he has. And, yet, I'm generally considered to be highly positive. Why? Why can I say so many things that are deemed as negative yet not ever catch the same flack as others?

It's not because people are afraid of me. See Madd or, again, Yusuf come at me. I'm pretty easy to come after. So why don't I catch heat do you think?

[Om]

I must say I wasn't at all surprised to see this type of response from Art. However, I'm extremely disappointed in Om. Usually, in fact always prior to this, he's been much smarter than that......

In spite of Art and Om's protestations, even a casual member would quickly recognize the type of caustic vitriol directed at almost anyone who dares write anything bad about the team...no matter how well reasoned and thought out the post happens to be. However, that you guys seem to think that we're all so dumb that we can't tell the difference between a flamer/troll and someone who actually has valid criticisms against the team is, quite frankly an insult to our collective intelligence.

All you have to do for a good example of this is go back and look at almost any of the threads from last pre-season. In most cases someone would say something like "Wow, our offense really looks putrid. I'm beginning to worry about whether we can just turn it on like a lightbulb when the season begins". (A perfectly valid worry/criticism BTW, even without the benefit of hindsight) Then all the well-reasoned "Shut up chicken little, we're going to the Super Bowl" posts would ensue followed by Bubba saying something equally insightful like "Gibbs has won 3 Super Bowls, he's God. You think you actually know more than him about running a team?"

The pattern was much the same in the debates about Brunell and long before that when ASF made some very good, well thought out arguments about Kim Helton and other shortcomings of the SOS era.

Sorry guys but what Thinking Skins is complaining of is alive and well here-whether you all decide to admit it or not. Generally speaking, if you say anything negative about the team, you're at risk of having your fan loyalty questioned...at least until the ones doing the questioning start looking at the product on the field and join the chorus.

Finally, I'd like to ask both Om and Art to examine the results on the field and ask yourselves one question. Could it just somehow be that perhaps those folks who have had more bad to say than good about the team over the years might just have been right about the team all along and THAT'S why they've been so negative?

Yusuf, I'm confused. When exactly did you fall into the crowd that sees only black and white? And how is it that you continue to mischaracterize what I have actually said? For a guy who has been around as long as you have, and as such apparently has a strong opinion about what I have to say, how is it that you apparently only see the part that isn't in line with your thinking?

Do you REALLY lump me in with the crowd that "seem(s) to think that we're all so dumb that we can't tell the difference between a flamer/troll and someone who actually has valid criticisms against the team ..."? Because if that's what you really believe about me, all I can do is shake my head in wonder.

[monkforhall]

I was one of the people arguing that even though we looked like crap during the pre-season, Joe would turn it around, and we'd go to the Superbowl. People had every right to have the complete opposite opinion. Looks like they were correct, I was wrong.

My problem is, I really believe that there are quite a few posters, who are HAPPY when the Skins fail, just so that they can be right. No one would admit that, but I believe they are numerous. I hate Brunell with a passion, but I cheered for him every step of the way. Nothing wrong with critical, but there are people that will never give the organization credit for anything, ever.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I was one of the people arguing that even though we looked like crap during the pre-season, Joe would turn it around, and we'd go to the Superbowl. People had every right to have the complete opposite opinion. Looks like they were correct, I was wrong.

My problem is, I really believe that there are quite a few posters, who are HAPPY when the Skins fail, just so that they can be right. No one would admit that, but I believe they are numerous. I hate Brunell with a passion, but I cheered for him every step of the way. Nothing wrong with critical, but there are people that will never give the organization credit for anything, ever.

And those are the ones who get 98% of the types of comments that are being discussed on this board. Those are the types of "fans" who booed Ramsey when he came in for Brunell in the Giants game during the 2005 season, and who booed Brunell when he came into the Giants game for Campbell during the 2006 season. Their hatred of certain aspects of the Skins seems to supercede their love of the team and franchise.

And yeah, you're right, they do seem to take far more pleasure during those times they prove to be right in their negatism than they do in actually seeing the Skins win. For me, if I truly felt last season that the Skins were going to suck and end up with such a pathetic record...and then I saw that I was right...the last thing I would desire to do is gleefully yell out "See, I TOLD you the Skins suck! See??" while calling those who felt the Skins would do great "kool-aid drinking homers".

[Aston]

Art is right, once again. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. My second thread I ever started was after the first preseason game last season against the Bengals, and I said in so many words that I was I was worried about the blocking and tackling of the team, particularly the backups. The unanimous response was that I was wrong - that it's preseason, not to worry. Although some were sarcastic, no one was rude, or accused my fandom, or pointed and laughed and said "Stupid waterboy, you don't know what the hell you're talking about! Go root for Dallas, you shmuck!" Meanwhile, I recall a few other of the 'naysayers' in other threads questioning the team as well and getting lashed at because they worded their posts in a way that were either pointlessly negative or just plain dumb.

... and I understand this is a large community so maybe I shouldn't be as bothered ...

Exactly. As an open board, you have the right to post whatever you want. Likewise, we have the right to respond with any namecalling or public lashing that we so choose. Sometimes it's warrented, sometimes it's not. But ultimately, you're the one who decides whether or not to get angry, upset, or bothered by someone else's comments.

And last but not least...

18. Adhere to the advice and recommendations of the ExtremeSkins.com Staff.

:2cents:

[Mooka]

First off, let me say that I believe that its more than the job of a fan,

Stop right there, here's the problem. You take yourself way too seriously. Being a fan is no job. We all spend so much time and devotion to this because we enjoy it, because we enjoy talking about football all day, because we love the Skins.

If you're getting more complicated then that, then just stop.

What I realize though, is that this criticism often leads to statements like:

And? What's your point? Everyone has to agree with you? People don't particularly like to read or hear negativity about things they are devoted too. You have to be realistic, if you post things like your sig down there on a site full of Redskin fans, then probably more then a few aren't going to like it.

This last comment is the one I've been thinking about. And I was thinking about it in terms of school.

A parent isn't a spectator, it's their child. They can sit down with their kid and help them study. Let's say your kid is trying and he's still getting bad grades, are you gonna talk him down? Are you going to lose faith in our education system? Are you going to insult the principal? Or are you going to realize that maybe your kid isn't very smart and still support him.

I'm left with no other option than to criticize the front office.

We just went, 5-11, it aint hard.

Now, when I criticize the front office, people always come back at me with "Danny wants to win, and thats enough for me". To me thats pure and utter BS.

And people might think your critisims are pure and utter BS, does that make them or your critisms right? Would that make them, or you, more of a fan?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

A parent isn't a spectator, it's their child. They can sit down with their kid and help them study. Let's say your kid is trying and he's still getting bad grades, are you gonna talk him down? Are you going to lose faith in our education system? Are you going to insult the principal? Or are you going to realize that maybe your kid isn't very smart and still support him.

Depends...is the parent's name "Alec Baldwin"?

[Thinking Skins]

Well, Hamming once stated that "if you believe too much, you'll never notice the flaws, and if you doubt too much, you'll never get started. It requires a lovely balance".

Given, he was talking about mathematical research, but maybe the quote applies here. As fans, some people are so fixated on the Redskins that we believe that everything the organization does will be perfect. Some people (probably like myself) have seen so much negative that even when something good happens, we refuse to acknowledge it because we deny the existence of anything good happening at Redskins park. Maybe both these groups of fans can learn from one another.

I've just gotta learn not to let the Redskins win and loss record stress me out like it did last season.

[TheLongshot]

Given, he was talking about mathematical research, but maybe the quote applies here. As fans, some people are so fixated on the Redskins that we believe that everything the organization does will be perfect. Some people (probably like myself) have seen so much negative that even when something good happens, we refuse to acknowledge it because we deny the existence of anything good happening at Redskins park. Maybe both these groups of fans can learn from one another.

There is some truth in that, tho I think there is more of the latter than the former, if just from the recent history of the Redskins. More people are willing to distrust the FO because of the poor showing the past few years.

I've just gotta learn not to let the Redskins win and loss record stress me out like it did last season.

It helped me a lot when I accepted that the season was pretty much over after the Titans game. While we had a chance to get back into things, it was just better for me to write off the season and change my frame of mind. By the end of the season, I actually had some hope for the future, rather than lamenting on a season lost.

Jason

[LoyalSkinsFan]

Well, Hamming once stated that "if you believe too much, you'll never notice the flaws, and if you doubt too much, you'll never get started. It requires a lovely balance".

Given, he was talking about mathematical research, but maybe the quote applies here. As fans, some people are so fixated on the Redskins that we believe that everything the organization does will be perfect. Some people (probably like myself) have seen so much negative that even when something good happens, we refuse to acknowledge it because we deny the existence of anything good happening at Redskins park. Maybe both these groups of fans can learn from one another.

I've just gotta learn not to let the Redskins win and loss record stress me out like it did last season.

Well said. Perhaps the best, most introspective and HONEST thing I've seen yet in this thread.

Back in the days before George Allen (and I have to admit I really have no recollection of anything there) the Redskins were cellar dwellers. George Allen got them to Super Bowl VII.....which, of course, we lost. From that point on it was always close and most always interesting and fun to watch. Still, every year we'd close out either at the end of the season or after a game or two in the playoffs. It had become, by then, a way of life.

When John Riggins broke away in Super Bowl XVII I literally fell to the ground with tears in my eyes...in utter and complete disbelief that at long last we about to win the Super Bowl. You see, I'd spent my entire life up to that point hoping for what had always seemed unreachable....elusive.

Under those circumstances, it's easy to fall into a pattern of losing expectations. It's very understandable to look forward to each season preparing yourself, more or less, for that inevitable collapse and off-season of explanation. As such, I can easily see why some fans end up so bitter and so vehement in their cries for heads to roll and for change to take place.

I'm personally guilty, at times, of being a bit of a cheerleader.....but I'm not stupid. Just loyal and interested. I certainly see the flaws and am not shy in the least as far as it comes to stating them. I sense trends, both good and bad, as soon as the signs become apparent. If I see Rock Cartwright drop the opening kickoff, there's a good chance that the team as a whole has come out in that game with a decided lack of concentration. In some games of late, the offense has come out running predictable plays(even to us fans) and have found themselves in an almost physically painful run of three-and-outs. Usually, we can see where we're headed....and it ain't pretty.

In the old days, Gibbs was known for his ability to make adjustments to the flow of the game and somehow find a way to win. Lately, we've seen a great deal less of this. Still, I find myself giving him the benefit of the doubt...choosing to believe that once he gets things together to his satisfaction that things WILL turn around. Not blind faith, I don't think...but opinion based on some historical fact.

It's flippin' hard not to get bummed out about the state of the team right now....especially after its track record over the last fifteen years. But, I've lived through this kind of drought before and I choose to believe that it will come to an end. Maybe not with Joe Gibbs at the helm (although I think it will), but eventually. It's not an easy task. If it was, we'd be champions every year. We may not always understand or agree with the tactics that the FO or coaches employ, but I'm pretty sure that their heads and hearts are actually in the right place. Gotta hope so, anyway.

So, here it is.........it's one thing to get down on the team you love and to yell and scream 'til you're blue in the face about all the frustrating things you see them doing (or NOT, as the case may be) on the field and off. It's quite another to just hammer blindly away at that team until something gives..either the mods, the other fans, or maybe just your keyboard. If you really did care, you'd see both sides...take the good with the bad...and survive each season best you can. It sucks for ALL of us when the Redskins lose. For me, my whole week following a loss takes on a tinge that I'd just as soon be without. The piling on doesn't help.

But, when (and I DID say "when") it turns around....and you find yourself falling to the ground with tears in your eyes just as I did at the end of SB XVII....you'll look back at these days as character builders. Sh**ty days, yes......but worthwhile in the end. These are the days that make the best of days the best.

Just hang in. Try to be faithful.

And for heaven's sake, be united.

HTTR

[FuriousD]

Oh please.

Not sure who you're referring to, but I'm willing to bet what was said wasn't because "you wrote something negative about the Skins." More likely it was for the same reason some others get questioned about their fandom from time to time---because 99.9% of everything you have to say is negative. Surely you can appreciate how in cases like that it is impossible to distinguish between a fan of the Redskins and a fan of another team simply here to stir the pot.

If it walks like a duck ...

.... it must be made of wood. Float in water. Weigh the same as a duck. And therefore.....................

....a witch!!!

Seriously, though,.... I have no trouble whatsoever distinguishing between the terminally frustrated and the fans of other teams here to stir the pot. Perhaps you should try harder!

Or maybe you don't care to.

"I'm not a witch! I'm not a witch!"

The problem seems to be that there is an overly sensitive booster faction on ES that can turn just plain mean. They hate sharing their space with the terminally frustrated who often get treated as ignorant, less than worthy, second-class citizens. If the grumbling gets too loud they get nasty! Hell, it doesn't even have to get loud to set some of them off!

I could easily be classified as one who posts more than his fair share of negativity. The RA RA, season prediction, we're going to the Superbowl, Gibbs is God threads hold little or no attraction for me and so I rarely waste my time or the boards time participating. To date I haven't posted a single "this player, that player" draft prediction thread (that I can think of). I leave that for those with more knowledge and time on their hands.

But!... If the FO morgages more of our future to move up.... Or stays put and doesn't draft D-line.... I'm gonna be at it again, in the thick of it, mouse in hand, pissing and moaning because I'm far more motivated to post by anger and frustration than I am sunny skies and butterflies.

Does that make me less of a fan? Should that make me a second-class citizen of Extremeskins?

:helmet: