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AP: Startling findings in Tillman probe

Baculus

By Baculus
in The Tailgate

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Baculus

Baculus

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This article refers to the continuing Pat Tillman investigation. Personally, I get pissed off whenever I read about the series of events that led to Tillman's death. What a horrible ending for a man who gave up everything to serve.

AP: Startling findings in Tillman probe

By SCOTT LINDLAW and MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press Writers 1 hour, 20 minutes ago

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_re_us/inquest_for_a_warrior

In a remote and dangerous corner of Afghanistan, under the protective roar of Apache attack helicopters and B-52 bombers, special agents and investigators did their work.

They walked the landscape with surviving witnesses. They found a rock stained with the blood of the victim. They re-enacted the killings — here the U.S. Army Rangers swept through the canyon in their Humvee, blasting away; here the doomed man waved his arms, pleading for recognition as a friend, not an enemy.

"Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" the NFL star shouted, again and again.

The latest inquiry into Tillman's death by friendly fire should end next month; authorities have said they intend to release to the public only a synopsis of their report. But The Associated Press has combed through the results of 2 1/4 years of investigations — reviewed thousands of pages of internal Army documents, interviewed dozens of people familiar with the case — and uncovered some startling findings.

Click here for the rest of the article.

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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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Chaos appended with an obvious cover-up attempt.

I don't believe for a second that he was fragged, though. The fact that some people speculate it is bizarre.

The Department of Defense failed in this situation similarly to the way it failed in the Jessica Lynch situation. They tried to create a scenario where it is a heart warming story just waiting for a tv movie. Did a cover up occur in the Tillman case? Probably, but I suspect that it occured at the lowest levels, i.e. platoon or maybe company. Mistakes were certainly made, no doubt about it.

Bac, it is a sad ending for any soldier, but it happens, and has happened throughout the history of the American military. Luckily it happens less frequently now than in the past and fratricide control measures are built into every mission planning process I was involved in.

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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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How do they know he yelled "I'm Pat (expletive) Tillman"? I would think that if anyone heard it they wouldn't have continued firing on him.
I believe one of the guy colocated with him said he stood up and yelled that. Obviously the guys doing the shooting were probably too far away to hear him. The ironic thing is that he tried to remain anonymous throughout his time in, except apparently in this situation.
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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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Too bad one of the shooters was still recovering from Lasik surgery and couldn't see right?

Or that someone did CPR on him hours after his head was partially blown off from three rounds to the forehead?

Yeah, that stuff just happens.

Sometimes CPR is done in order to "medically retire" a service member instead of have them die while on active duty. So yeah, that stuff does just happen. I've seen it in peace time, and in combat.

How long does it take to recover from Lasik?

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Sometimes CPR is done in order to "medically retire" a service member instead of have them die while on active duty. So yeah, that stuff does just happen. I've seen it in peace time, and in combat.

How long does it take to recover from Lasik?

My friend had it done a year ago, and it took him a few days until he was totally normal.

One of the four shooters, Staff Sgt. Trevor Alders, had recently had PRK laser eye surgery. He said although he could see two sets of hands "straight up," his vision was "hazy." In the absence of "friendly identifying signals," he assumed Tillman and an allied Afghan who also was killed were enemy.
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Popeman38

Popeman38

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My quesyion, and a little anger, is why the Army is spending so much money to investigate HIS death. Last I checked, every sodier that signs the dotted line and raises his/her right hand is equal.

When I was at stationed at Fort Drum, we had an artillery live fire go wrong and drop two shells ito our field site: one in the portable chow hall and one on an area of slate rock. You ever seen slate fly through the air? Two soldiers were killed and one ended up losing a leg. How long did that investigation last? Maybe a week.

Now, whose life do you think the Army and the media has placed more value on?

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rincewind

rincewind

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My quesyion, and a little anger, is why the Army is spending so much money to investigate HIS death. Last I checked, every sodier that signs the dotted line and raises his/her right hand is equal.

When I was at stationed at Fort Drum, we had an artillery live fire go wrong and drop two shells ito our field site: one in the portable chow hall and one on an area of slate rock. You ever seen slate fly through the air? Two soldiers were killed and one ended up losing a leg. How long did that investigation last? Maybe a week.

Now, whose life do you think the Army and the media has placed more value on?

I don't think you can blame the media on this one. This is obviously a much more juicy story, and one with national interest as he was know nationwide, than your average soldier dying.

I agree with your point about the Army though.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Well I doubt he had PRK in the days, or weeks leading up to this. I don't think they offer that at FOB Salerno...at least we didn't when we set the place up.
Well then it sounds like the shooter was lying about his vision to use it as an excuse doesn't it. Not good.:(
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Popeman38

Popeman38

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I don't think you can blame the media on this one. This is obviously a much more juicy story, and one with national interest as he was know nationwide, than your average soldier dying.

I agree with your point about the Army though.

And this is why the DoD should release no information about the death of soldiers to the general public. I hate that he died, and even more that he died by fracticide. And yes, you can blame the media. How many other soldiers had their death as the lead story on SportsCenter? Or every network news show? No other soldiers are singled out by the national media. What Pat and Kevin Tillman did was no more heroic than Joe Schmoe from rural Anytown USA or the inner city of Gotham. Baseball and football players from WWII era did this, and it was commonplace. One guy does it now and he is THE hero? Come on...

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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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Popeman, I hear you. No matter how much money the military spends investigating any death it will not change the fact that the soldier is dead. People don't really care about PFC Smith or SPC Brown, they do care about Pat Tillman. In my opinion they have to do this...there is no choice. The Tillman's have a voice that few others have and I believe they will continue to use it.

Z, I'm sure one of the shooters is trying to find an explanation as to why he shot his most famous platoon mate. It is hard to tell from this article. Maybe a simple question was asked "How could you not tell it was an American?" "well my eyes are still a little blurry from the PRK". Maybe his vision is cloudy. It happens to people for a number of reasons. Sweat, sand, exhaustion, maybe PRK. This article doesn't do nearly enough for me to say he should, or should not, have been out there.

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rincewind

rincewind

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And this is why the DoD should release no information about the death of soldiers to the general public. I hate that he died, and even more that he died by fracticide. And yes, you can blame the media. How many other soldiers had their death as the lead story on SportsCenter? Or every network news show? No other soldiers are singled out by the national media. What Pat and Kevin Tillman did was no more heroic than Joe Schmoe from rural Anytown USA or the inner city of Gotham. Baseball and football players from WWII era did this, and it was commonplace. One guy does it now and he is THE hero? Come on...

I agree that his death was no more or less tragic than any other soldiers. But to say it shouldn't make Sportscenter is just naive. He was a professional athlete - and a very popular one. Of course his death is going to make it into the media. If any famous person dies, it makes it into the media. This famous person just so happened to be an athlete.

Edit: When Elvis and Joe Dimaggio joined the Army it was HUGE news.

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laurent

laurent

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Sometimes CPR is done in order to "medically retire" a service member instead of have them die while on active duty. So yeah, that stuff does just happen. I've seen it in peace time, and in combat.

How long does it take to recover from Lasik?

That still doesn't explain the burning of clothing and body armor. It's pretty safe to say that the incident was caused by terrible decision making and gross negligence by those involved.

What's sad is the cover attempt made by those to blame and the fact that it took so long to uncover the facts.

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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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And this is why the DoD should release no information about the death of soldiers to the general public. I hate that he died, and even more that he died by fracticide. And yes, you can blame the media. How many other soldiers had their death as the lead story on SportsCenter? Or every network news show? No other soldiers are singled out by the national media. What Pat and Kevin Tillman did was no more heroic than Joe Schmoe from rural Anytown USA or the inner city of Gotham. Baseball and football players from WWII era did this, and it was commonplace. One guy does it now and he is THE hero? Come on...

The problem here is that the military sold his enlistment. They capitalized on the fact that a well known sports figure was giving up millions of dollars to serve, in a combat arms MOS no less. Tillman was honorable in that he wanted no attention, he wanted to be like Joe Schmoe. Couple that with the fact someone decided to further the image in his death, using a fictional account of what happened.

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Redskins Diehard

Redskins Diehard

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That still doesn't explain the burning of clothing and body armor. It's pretty safe to say that the incident was caused by terrible decision making and gross negligence by those involved.

What's sad is the cover attempt made by those to blame and the fact that it took so long to uncover the facts.

Burning of clothing is fairly common procedure as well. Like the article says if this happened in the USA the scene would have been taped off and an investigation conducted. Well guess what...it didn't happen here. It happened in an ambush, where enemy WERE present, just didn't fire the shots that killed Tillman.

The incident was caused by many things. Terrible decision making and negligence were involved. No question about that.

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