laurent Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 And this is why the DoD should release no information about the death of soldiers to the general public. I hate that he died, and even more that he died by fracticide. And yes, you can blame the media. How many other soldiers had their death as the lead story on SportsCenter? Or every network news show? No other soldiers are singled out by the national media. What Pat and Kevin Tillman did was no more heroic than Joe Schmoe from rural Anytown USA or the inner city of Gotham. Baseball and football players from WWII era did this, and it was commonplace. One guy does it now and he is THE hero? Come on... Completely disagree with that sentiment. The way I see it that's exactly why cases like this should be made public. To err is human, and I think we all realize that. When something like this happens though we have to learn from the mistakes and make sure that measures are put in place to minimize the likelyhood of such a tragedy occurring again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieJ Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 The Army brought this on themselves with how they reported the death when it happened and through the funeral. They had men get up there and lie about what happened at his memorial service. The piece that ESPN did on Outside the Lines last month had it in great detail and interviewed all of the soldiers involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Burning of clothing is fairly common procedure as well. Fair enough, I didn't know that was the case. May I ask what the rational for doing so is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Completely disagree with that sentiment. The way I see it that's exactly why cases like this should be made public. To err is human, and I think we all realize that. When something like this happens though we have to learn from the mistakes and make sure that measures are put in place to minimize the likelyhood of such a tragedy occurring again. No disrespect to you...but what measures are going to be put in place by the American public. Do you want a full accounting of every death? What makes this news is that the Army tried to sell a feel good story of heroism, when they should have just stuck to the truth that some of the best infantryman in the world messed up. The 75th Ranger Regiment is as good as we have...and there probably is none better in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Fair enough, I didn't know that was the case. May I ask what the rational for doing so is? It is a biohazard and quite frankly it is "trash" at that point. And that is what you do with trash and human waste in that part of the world. You burn it. Everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Fair enough, I didn't know that was the case. May I ask what the rational for doing so is? HAZMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Completely disagree with that sentiment. Why this country is great. We can all disagree... The way I see it that's exactly why cases like this should be made public. To err is human, and I think we all realize that. Yes, we all know this. But think about the soldiers that did this. They have to go to sleep every night with this memory burning in their heads. And then they wake up the next day to do it all over again. And now you want the general public to be able to scourge them over this, and press charges? War is hell. There is a reason this statement is true. When something like this happens though we have to learn from the mistakes and make sure that measures are put in place to minimize the likelyhood of such a tragedy occurring again. And what is Fred the Hippie in San Fran going to learn from this? Or Barney from Minnesota; Terry from Texas.... Nothing. It will happen as long as there is war. No matter how often you train them, soldiers are going to screw up. How many acts of fracticide have occurred since OEF/OIF kicked off? The fewest in the history of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yeah, I know this stuff happens. I've read enough friendly fire reports in multiple conflicts to know that it is an unfortunate part of war. In fact, we had more friendly fire deaths in WW2 then the total number of deaths in Iraq. (One attack on a Japanese freight ship killed nearly 1,800 American POW passengers...) But, with the coverage and indepth explanation of events, coupled with Tillman's own story and his brother's presence in the same combat area, it's just a solemn story. And the events of Tillman jumping up and down, frantically trying to get his mate's notice...it's just sad, even if his story is one in a million. I actually tried to finish my homework, but everything that is done great by government turned out to be local and state governments. So I am still trying to research what the Federal government actually does well. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I actually tried to finish my homework, but everything that is done great by government turned out to be local and state governments. So I am still trying to research what the Federal government actually does well. Any ideas? The military is about it Oddly enough, it's one of the few things actually mandated by the Constitution as a government responsiblity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I think that part of the reasons for the feel-good stories, and the investigation, comes from a desire to have heroes. There's this wanting for things to be neat and pretty and Good. That's one reason why I'll admit that I cringe a bit when I see a soldier's death being used as the jumpoff point for any story. To me, it doesn't matter who fired the bullet that killed him. Or which way he was facing at the time. To me, he didn't become a hero when he died. He bacame a hero when he volunteered. The (hypothetical) guy who was standing next to him, and who didn't even get scratched, took exactly the same risks as Tillman did, he simply was luckier that day. Doo-doo happens. But in a war, doo-doo has a considerably higher chance of being fatal. And every single person who put on that green suit knew it, and they did it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yes, we all know this. But think about the soldiers that did this. They have to go to sleep every night with this memory burning in their heads. And then they wake up the next day to do it all over again. And now you want the general public to be able to scourge them over this, and press charges? War is hell. There is a reason this statement is true. I'm not talking about singling out soldiers and quite frankly I'm shocked that the names of those responsible have been publicized. I know damn well that no amount of punishment is ever going to let those guys forget what happened and I understand fully that as a civillian I have no business judging them. And what is Fred the Hippie in San Fran going to learn from this? Or Barney from Minnesota; Terry from Texas.... Nothing. It will happen as long as there is war. No matter how often you train them, soldiers are going to screw up. How many acts of fracticide have occurred since OEF/OIF kicked off? The fewest in the history of war. I'm in full agreement. My problem isn't so much that it happened, my problem is with the handling of the investigation. That in my book was the real tragedy in this case. The people affected by this deserve closure and they deserve that incidents of this nature are investigated no matter how much dirt is uncovered in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I actually tried to finish my homework, but everything that is done great by government turned out to be local and state governments. So I am still trying to research what the Federal government actually does well. Any ideas? they're really good at ignoring the constitution. they're good at ignoring important issues and placing importance on issues with no good application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Unfortunately the Tillman controversy is far from a shock. It's symptomatic of the entire Afghanistan operation, which many rank and file coalition soldiers have defamed as a half-assed, wild goose chase through tiny mountiin villages for "Taliban/Al-Queda" cave dwellers. Very little was accomplished. God bless Pat Tillman and those like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Unfortunately the Tillman controversy is far from a shock. It's symptomatic of the entire Afghanistan operation, which many rank and file coalition soldiers have defamed as a half-assed, wild goose chase through tiny mountiin villages for "Taliban/Al-Queda" cave dwellers.Very little was accomplished. God bless Pat Tillman and those like him. I spent 8 months in Afghanistan with 800 or so of those rank and file soldiers. Not a single day or mission was "half-assed". You can't "half-ass" your way up and down those mountains and valleys. I would be interested in your source for "many rank and file coalition soldiers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I spent 8 months in Afghanistan with 800 or so of those rank and file soldiers. Not a single day or mission was "half-assed". You can't "half-ass" your way up and down those mountains and valleys. I would be interested in your source for "many rank and file coalition soldiers". My source is a very good BBC documentary containing extensive interviews with British coalition forces only. Obviously not as good a source as yours, but perhaps their experience was different than yours. I will try to find the link. "Half-ass" is meant to describe the overall strategy and focus of the coalition invasion leadership. The guys on the ground, the soldiers, busted their ass without a doubt...And continue to. Not the best choice of words on my part. I retract the comment. :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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