Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[lovetoaster]

Anyone watch Strikeforce on HDNet last night? I am usually a fan of their cards, but this one was not so great.

Among the notables:

Babalu won the LHW title from Bobby Southworth as the fight was stopped between the first and second rounds. Babalu caught Southworth with a nasty elbow that opened a bad cut above his right eye. Southworth wanted to continue, but it was a pretty nasty cut.

Scott Smith beat Terry Martin via first round KO, 23 seconds in I believe. I thought someone was going to get KO'd quickly, but I did not think it was going to be that fast.

Kim Couture beat the hell out of someone via first round TKO that was essentially running away and throwing flailing punches with her eyes closed. It is hard to guage Couture from that fight, but she does certainly have some power in her punches.

Duane Ludwig beat Yves Edwards via unanimous decision. I think Edwards got jobbed. I thought he won 29-28, but all three cards has Ludwig winning by that score. The commentators, Kenny, Bas and Josh Thomson seemed to think that Edwards was going to win 30-27, but I did not see that either. Ludwig landed some big shots, enough to win the second round IMHO, but Edwards controlled the fight and took Ludwig down pretty much when he wanted to. I thought he won the first and third. Whatever, it was not that good of a fight anyways.

[ZoEd]

Dana White is a douche! I'm telling you guys he's trying to turn UFC into WWE. All this guy cares about is $$$$$$$ and having his ugly mug plastered all over the TV. The MMA you love is going to the way of Brock Lesner getting a title shot after 3 fights while the guy who beat him doesn't. ?????? Dana is a DOUCHE!

[StillUnknown]

Dana White is a douche! I'm telling you guys he's trying to turn UFC into WWE. All this guy cares about is $$$$$$$ and having his ugly mug plastered all over the TV. The MMA you love is going to the way of Brock Lesner getting a title shot after 3 fights while the guy who beat him doesn't. ?????? Dana is a DOUCHE!

by time Couture came back, Mir & Nog were already in the process of shooting TUF. Mir was granted a shot at Nog who was the champ, so Mir did get his title shot

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Dana White is a douche! I'm telling you guys he's trying to turn UFC into WWE. All this guy cares about is $$$$$$$ and having his ugly mug plastered all over the TV. The MMA you love is going to the way of Brock Lesner getting a title shot after 3 fights while the guy who beat him doesn't. ?????? Dana is a DOUCHE!

The way the HW picture turned out is a little weird. It's hard to argue with Lesnar fans. One, he beat Randy; two, him winning has essentially given MMA a new Kimbo Slice - a guy that brings in a ton of fans. Of course Brock is 1000x better than Kimbo, but he was popular for his exploits before he got in to MMA. His WWE popularity and being an overwhelming physical specimen is what got him the shot, let's be realistic. But he was offered the title shot and accepted it. Like he said many times, who would turn that down?

Mir beat Brock, Nog beat Herring (so what if he got caught by Heath, he tallied a W). Nog gets the honor of being the "#2 champion" while waiting for Randy to return from hiatus. Yet, they don't even fight when he comes back, the big name in pop-culture is invited to butt in line. The belts are supposed to be knocked down in to one right away, like when Sherk came back to fight BJ, or when GSP fought Serra the second time after winning the interim belt. Do it right away!

Otherwise, if you're going to have a "tournament", do it the right way and have the winner proclaimed "champion". Especially when there are two belts in the division. Not Brock's fault, just Dana's bitterly-brilliant marketing scheme.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

by time Couture came back, Mir & Nog were already in the process of shooting TUF. Mir was granted a shot at Nog who was the champ, so Mir did get his title shot

That point negates everything I said. Thanks, SU. Now I have to rethink this whole god damned thing.

Although, the X-factor that keeps my point valid is Fabricio Werdum. He was more deserving than Brock.

Edited November 22, 2008 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[StillUnknown]

if Mir and Nog weren't involved in TUF, i think you would've seen an immediate unification fight between Randy & Nog

[ZoEd]

if Mir and Nog weren't involved in TUF, i think you would've seen an immediate unification fight between Randy & Nog

That would ahve been the right thing to do but god forbid you wait a little while, let the winner of Mir and Nog fight Randy then give Brock his shot. However, the money grubbing UFC had to water things down as usual.

I'm not saying Brock isn't deserving but there's a pecking order and allowing someone to jump to the head of the line is a foul IMO. When Hendo was allowed to go to the front of the line in two divisions he came with a resume and pedigree as long as your arm. What did brock bring? Two fights where he beat a nobody and a one trick pony and a L via leg bar by Mir. That deserves a shot? Foul!

[Sebowski]

That would ahve been the right thing to do but god forbid you wait a little while, let the winner of Mir and Nog fight Randy then give Brock his shot. However, the money grubbing UFC had to water things down as usual.

I'm not saying Brock isn't deserving but there's a pecking order and allowing someone to jump to the head of the line is a foul IMO. When Hendo was allowed to go to the front of the line in two divisions he came with a resume and pedigree as long as your arm. What did brock bring? Two fights where he beat a nobody and a one trick pony and a L via leg bar by Mir. That deserves a shot? Foul!

You're forgetting that Randy is old and getting older. He can't afford (and didn't want to) wait for Mir-Nog and then another 4 months to fight. He needed to fight right when they resolved all their issues.

Brock only had three fights, but he also has a tremendous amatuer wrestling record. Think of it as what if Paquiao decided he was going to MMA and looked great in his first three fights. Even though he might have lost one of them to a former champ he could be given a title shot.

Fact is that despite his lack of fights, Brock is a great fighter who would give almost everyone in the division trouble. He is not Kimbo. Everyone knew that Kimbo could be beat by anyone with any wrestling background.

Name the guys you would bet a paycheck on against Brock.

Fedor, Nog, Barnett,......

ummmm...

Gonzoga, Arlovski? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. That tells me that he belonged in that title match as much as anyone else in the UFC (since Nog and Mir were tied up).

[Chachie]

Fact is that despite his lack of fights, Brock is a great fighter who would give almost everyone in the division trouble. He is not Kimbo. Everyone knew that Kimbo could be beat by anyone with any wrestling background.

Name the guys you would bet a paycheck on against Brock.

Fedor, Nog, Barnett,......

ummmm...

Gonzoga, Arlovski? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. That tells me that he belonged in that title match as much as anyone else in the UFC (since Nog and Mir were tied up).

Brock's big and he punches and kicks like a small guy. I mean that as a compliment. I always root for David to beat Goliath but it's hard to have hope against a guy who's that big but also fast enough to catch you swinging before the fight ever gets to the ground where he would "use" his weight advantage. Tough matchup for any fighter.

[ZoEd]

You're forgetting that Randy is old and getting older. He can't afford (and didn't want to) wait for Mir-Nog and then another 4 months to fight. He needed to fight right when they resolved all their issues.

Brock only had three fights, but he also has a tremendous amatuer wrestling record. Think of it as what if Paquiao decided he was going to MMA and looked great in his first three fights. Even though he might have lost one of them to a former champ he could be given a title shot.

Fact is that despite his lack of fights, Brock is a great fighter who would give almost everyone in the division trouble. He is not Kimbo. Everyone knew that Kimbo could be beat by anyone with any wrestling background.

Name the guys you would bet a paycheck on against Brock.

Fedor, Nog, Barnett,......

ummmm...

Gonzoga, Arlovski? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. That tells me that he belonged in that title match as much as anyone else in the UFC (since Nog and Mir were tied up).

Again, I'm not questioning his skills or ability. He's a big mo fo who's freakishly athletic. However, like I already said there's a pecking order and IMO it's a slap in the face to the guys who have worked so hard to get a shot to simply allow someone to cut the line because he's making Dana and the boys some money. It goes back to my earlier posts a few months back about how they're ruining the legitimacy of the sport IMO.

As for Paquiao, him Mayweather anyone from boxing crossing over should have to pay their dues. No one IMO is heir to the throne without going to war and fighting their way to the top. It's just not right, no matter how you look at it.

[lovetoaster]

No one IMO is heir to the throne without going to war and fighting their way to the top. It's just not right, no matter how you look at it.

I don't know. I don't disagree with you, but I am not going to say that it is not right. It essentially boils down to being a four man tournament for the title. Looking at the depth of the heavyweight class in the UFC, I think Lesnar is one of the four best. Even before the Couture fight.

Everything will work itself out in the cage. I see Nog beating Mir and then beating Lesnar, but who knows what will happen. Lesnar has the talent to beat anyone right now, and I mean anyone. Once the skills catches up with that talent, it is going to be a scary thing.

If it were a deeper division, I might agree more, but aside of Werdum and maybe Gonzaga, there are not many guys that might have had an argument that they belong in that top four. Werdum is out of the equation, but Gonzaga will be back in it soon as soon as this title mess work itself out.

I am not going to kid myself and say that Lesnar was not originally being pushed because he generates cash, but I think that now his ability is a bigger consideration.

[ZoEd]

I don't know. I don't disagree with you, but I am not going to say that it is not right. It essentially boils down to being a four man tournament for the title. Looking at the depth of the heavyweight class in the UFC, I think Lesnar is one of the four best. Even before the Couture fight.

Everything will work itself out in the cage. I see Nog beating Mir and then beating Lesnar, but who knows what will happen. Lesnar has the talent to beat anyone right now, and I mean anyone. Once the skills catches up with that talent, it is going to be a scary thing.

If it were a deeper division, I might agree more, but aside of Werdum and maybe Gonzaga, there are not many guys that might have had an argument that they belong in that top four. Werdum is out of the equation, but Gonzaga will be back in it soon as soon as this title mess work itself out.

I am not going to kid myself and say that Lesnar was not originally being pushed because he generates cash, but I think that now his ability is a bigger consideration.

I was home in WV for the fight and it sickened me to hear all the rednecks cheer when Lesner won. I can't help but believe that anyplace with true MMA fans that night had a much different reaction. All them WWE fans were jumping for joy for their boy and it honestly sickened me. I dunno, maybe I'm just being a biatch about it but I can't stand how they've pimped him to the top and ahead of the crowd.

Brock is a freak of nature though and if that Ox ever learns how to really fight and tighten up his game he may stay at the top for a really long time. I still think he's getting by on brute strength with about this much __ skill. Did you see those gay little hammer fists he was throwing when Randy went to the mat? He won't phase Nog with that ****. If he don't come with more than that he'll get twisted up like a pretzel.

[Special K]

However, like I already said there's a pecking order and IMO it's a slap in the face to the guys who have worked so hard to get a shot to simply allow someone to cut the line because he's making Dana and the boys some money.

No one IMO is heir to the throne without going to war and fighting their way to the top. It's just not right, no matter how you look at it.

You are writing all this without knowing what Randy thought about the fight whatsoever, which is kind of funny. When Randy renegotiated his contract and settled his differences with the organization, he wanted to immediately secure a match: he said as much in pre-fight interviews.

When you are 45, a few months in MMA can be an eternity, a lot can happen. Randy wanted to get back into the octagon before Mir and Nog finshed TUF and fought each other, where the winner might or might not have been injured and further prolonged the fight wiith Couture. In the interrim, it would kind of make sense to throw Lesnar into the mix as he was a rising star in the UFC and is a legit wrestler, fighter, athlete. Furthermore, it was an interesting matchup to see the strategies two elite wrestlers would bring to the fight with them. That is what I was looking forward to most.

By the way, who else would you suggest Randy have fought that night?

I was home in WV for the fight and it sickened me to hear all the rednecks cheer when Lesner won. I can't help but believe that anyplace with true MMA fans that night had a much different reaction. All them WWE fans were jumping for joy for their boy and it honestly sickened me. I dunno, maybe I'm just being a biatch about it but I can't stand how they've pimped him to the top and ahead of the crowd.

Yeah, I'd say that is an accurate statement.

It's a little absurd to say someone was pimped to the top of a rather weak division. It doesn't take a lot to work one's way up to the top, especially in a division with a champion and an interrim champion (Nog) already tied up into a fight with the other top guy in the division, Mir. Again, who else do you suggest fight Randy?

Brock is a freak of nature though and if that Ox ever learns how to really fight and tighten up his game he may stay at the top for a really long time. I still think he's getting by on brute strength with about this much __ skill.

I don't understand how anyone with any knowledge of MMA whatsoever can deny that Lesnar has showed improvement in his fighting strategy and skill in each successive fight. :doh:

[Special K]

Brock's big and he punches and kicks like a small guy.

Yep, it's this exact reason there was such a fight between the NCAA D1 universities over Lesnar when he was wrestling in Bismarck. One of the scouts was astonished when he saw Brock and said something to the effect of "the dude has the mobility of and is cut like a 157 pounder but is a heavyweight."

[Chachie]

Yep, it's this exact reason there was such a fight between the NCAA D1 universities over Lesnar when he was wrestling in Bismarck. One of the scouts was astonished when he saw Brock and said something to the effect of "the dude has the mobility of and is cut like a 157 pounder but is a heavyweight."

4:10am? You night owl!

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Clear the room, Keeastman is multiquoting about Brock Lesnar.

Before you go crazy, Keeastman, Brock is the greatest fighter in the world.

Edited November 23, 2008 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Westbrook36]

Did you see those gay little hammer fists he was throwing when Randy went to the mat? He won't phase Nog with that ****. If he don't come with more than that he'll get twisted up like a pretzel.

You obviously didn't take physics 101.

[StillUnknown]

Did you see those gay little hammer fists he was throwing when Randy went to the mat? He won't phase Nog with that ****. If he don't come with more than that he'll get twisted up like a pretzel.

did you see Coutures face post fight as a result of those "gay little hammer fists"?

Brock basically used Randy's head as a basketball

[Special K]

4:10am? You night owl!

It's a sleepless life when one has to ride Lesnar's jock 24/7.

Clear the room, Keeastman is multiquoting about Brock Lesnar.

Before you go crazy, Keeastman, Brock is the greatest fighter in the world.

You really don't like those multi-quotes do you?

Also, you know very well that I don't think Brock is the best fighter in the world. Not even close.

[lovetoaster]

Also, you know very well that I don't think Brock is the best fighter in the world. Not even close.

We all know it is Bob Sapp.

[StillUnknown]

We all know it is Bob Sapp.

[Special K]

We all know it is Bob Sapp.

Well OF COURSE!!

[ZoEd]

You are writing all this without knowing what Randy thought about the fight whatsoever, which is kind of funny. When Randy renegotiated his contract and settled his differences with the organization, he wanted to immediately secure a match: he said as much in pre-fight interviews.

When you are 45, a few months in MMA can be an eternity, a lot can happen. Randy wanted to get back into the octagon before Mir and Nog finshed TUF and fought each other, where the winner might or might not have been injured and further prolonged the fight wiith Couture. In the interrim, it would kind of make sense to throw Lesnar into the mix as he was a rising star in the UFC and is a legit wrestler, fighter, athlete. Furthermore, it was an interesting matchup to see the strategies two elite wrestlers would bring to the fight with them. That is what I was looking forward to most.

By the way, who else would you suggest Randy have fought that night?

Yeah, I'd say that is an accurate statement.

It's a little absurd to say someone was pimped to the top of a rather weak division. It doesn't take a lot to work one's way up to the top, especially in a division with a champion and an interrim champion (Nog) already tied up into a fight with the other top guy in the division, Mir. Again, who else do you suggest fight Randy?

I don't understand how anyone with any knowledge of MMA whatsoever can deny that Lesnar has showed improvement in his fighting strategy and skill in each successive fight. :doh:

You're crush on Brock isn't too obvious.

For the millionth time, I'm not taking anything away from brocks physicality. Dude is one hell of an athlete and he has improved, anyone who has no job except training should. However, I don't think he's improved enough to be catapulted to the top of the division.

I'm really suprised that you feel so strongly about him being given a shot so early in the game. Someone with your knowledge and appreciation for the sport woud typically feel like someone needs to pay their dues before being allowed a title shot. If it wasn't for his WWE fame do you think it would have unfolded this way? Do you think he would have gotten this shot if he was simply a big dude who wrestled almost 10 years ago?

By the way, are you on the Randy speed dial list? Did he call you with his wishes for when and who to fight? Just wondering. Thought maybe you had some insider info. Either that or you're just making assumptions like the rest of us.

Edited November 24, 2008 by ZoEd

[lovetoaster]

I had a feeling that this would make an appearance when I mentioned Bob Sapp. :applause:

[Special K]

You're crush on Brock isn't too obvious.

For the millionth time, I'm not taking anything away from brocks physicality. Dude is one hell of an athlete and he has improved, anyone who has no job except training should. However, I don't think he's improved enough to be catapulted to the top of the division.

I'm really suprised that you feel so strongly about him being given a shot so early in the game. Someone with your knowledge and appreciation for the sport woud typically feel like someone needs to pay their dues before being allowed a title shot. If it wasn't for his WWE fame do you think it would have unfolded this way? Do you think he would have gotten this shot if he was simply a big dude who wrestled almost 10 years ago?

By the way, are you on the Randy speed dial list? Did he call you with his wishes for when and who to fight? Just wondering. Thought maybe you had some insider info. Either that or you're just making assumptions like the rest of us.

Yeah, well, you can keep talking about my "crush" on Brock but it doesn't make it true.

Couture is and always will be one of my favorite fighters. I have tremendous respect for him.

As for your question about "paying dues," and if I think he would have been in this situation if he had not been in the WWE...my answer is yes. Lesnar's popularity doesn't only stem from his WWE status, but from the fact that he is a freakishly athletic beastly looking guy. MMA fans have always loved that.

Let me ask you something, if Lesnar had not been a WWE star, would you take him a little more seriously? If he had gone straight from his NCAA win to MMA, would you take him more seriously? I suspect the answer would be "yes" as wrestling in the WWE tends to water down one's "serious contender" clout to many people.

I don't know why you seem so surprised that I am not against giving Lesnar a title shot. I already stated that it made sense beings that Nog and Mir were already tied into a fight with each other following TUF. You'd rather have Randy come back after renegotiating his contract and sit around and wait for the next several months to fight the winner of Nog and Mir? That makes no sense at all. In your haste to bash "redneck" fans for wanting to see Brock, you conveniently forget the fact fans wanted to see Couture again too...and sooner rather than later.

And yes, I'm on the Randy speed-dial list....or maybe I actually just listened to his interviews upon returning to the UFC and leading up to the fight with Lesnar where he said he was itching to get back into the octagon...kind of like I stated in my previous post about basing my opinion on Couture's actual interviews.