A Biker's opinion on Helmet Laws...

[Commander PK]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060614/cm_usatoday/itsourrighttodecide

It's our right to decide

By Charles C. Umbenhauer

Wed Jun 14, 6:35 AM ET

The voluntary use of helmets by adult motorcyclists, as part of a comprehensive motorcycle safety program, is a good idea.

Our group makes a distinction between the use of helmets and mandatory helmet laws. Some in society tend to view the helmet only as a mechanical safety device similar to seat belts. They fail to realize that motorcyclists view it as an accessory connected with their chosen lifestyle and their right as adults to make their own decisions.

Unlike seat belts, helmets represent a separate purchase. Helmet laws, on the other hand, are a manifestation of society's belief that its members lack the wisdom to make decisions about personal safety and must therefore be subjected to arbitrary laws. This is a concept we must reject.

Contrary to what some opposing organizations say, there is a motorcycle helmet law in Pennsylvania. Helmets are still required by law for all motorcycle riders younger than 21 and for those with less than two years of riding experience, unless they have successfully completed the free state-approved rider safety course.

While the law does allow freedom of choice in the use of helmets, it also contains safeguards for those not yet trained or skilled enough to make an informed decision. Enactment of the Freedom of Choice bill on helmets represents what our Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution: that government works best with the consent of the governed.

Laws mandating helmet use at all times have no significant effect on the safety of motorcycling in general, although they may or may not be beneficial in individual accidents. The decision on when to wear a helmet while operating a motorcycle should remain with each responsible adult rider.

For us, this is an issue of personal freedom. Mandatory helmet laws are annoying and unnecessary to an extremely small minority of citizens who would prefer to make their own decisions on an issue that has no effect on anyone else, other than to become a symbol of what's wrong with being free.

Charles C. Umbenhauer is the lobbyist for Pennsylvania ABATE (Alliance of Bikers Aimed Toward Education).

Personally, I respect a biker's decision to wear a helmet or not, but make no mistake. I will call him a fool for not wearing a helmet if he is unfortunate enough to get his brains splattered all over the highway.

Especially when he's a young millionaire QB with a career on the line, as well as his life.

[DeanCollins]

It's foolish to ride without a helmet, I'll never do it. But it's the process of natural selection at it's finest, as long as the dumb *****'s don't breed before they check out. Problem is that when they do go down they usually don't have insurance because most states don't require insurance on bikes. So when they head for the ER guess who pays thier bills :doh:

[Tarhog]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060614/cm_usatoday/itsourrighttodecide

Personally, I respect a biker's decision to wear a helmet or not, but make no mistake. I will call him a fool for not wearing a helmet if he is unfortunate enough to get his brains splattered all over the highway.

Especially when he's a young millionaire QB with a career on the line, as well as his life.

As long as an adult's decision doesn't negatively impact another human being, I truly don't care what anyone does. However, thats not the case with giving motorcycle riders the 'choice' whether to don a helmet or not. Every time a rider lays it down, sustains major injuries, and ends up in a hospital, he's taking up a bed, unnecessarily in many cases, that could be made available to someone else. He's using resources, such as blood products, OR time, and tying up physicians and nurses that could be used to treat other patients. And he or she is driving up the cost of insurance for all of us.

There are better arguments (like a rider not letting their misplaced emphasis on 'freedom' supercede protecting their family and loved ones from potentially having to go through a traumatic experience) but the one above is good enough.

Its rare that any decision we make impacts only ourselves. Riding without a helmet is irresponsible. Period.

Just my opinion

[stevenaa]

It's foolish to ride without a helmet, I'll never do it. But it's the process of natural selection at it's finest, as long as the dumb *****'s don't breed before they check out. Problem is that when they do go down they usually don't have insurance because most states don't require insurance on bikes. So when they head for the ER guess who pays thier bills :doh:

And that is the problem I have. I don't care if they want to bust their skulls open, I just don't want to pay for it.

[Fergasun]

And that is the problem I have. I don't care if they want to bust their skulls open, I just don't want to pay for it.

Exactly! Who ends up footing the bill?

Why do we have seat belt laws?

[ncsuapex]

^^

Amen Tarhog. haven't seen it put any better way. I could care less personally if riders do or do not wear a helmet. But I think you're a complete DUMBASS if you ride and don't wear one, just my personal opinion.. I don't care how "cool" or "safe" you are on a bike.. You lose when you hit the concrete or a car head first without a helmet on, PERIOD.

[Midnight Judges]

Let the states decide. I would vote in favor of helmet laws.

[Commander PK]

As long as an adult's decision doesn't negatively impact another human being, I truly don't care what anyone does. However, thats not the case with giving motorcycle riders the 'choice' whether to don a helmet or not. Every time a rider lays it down, sustains major injuries, and ends up in a hospital, he's taking up a bed, unnecessarily in many cases, that could be made available to someone else. He's using resources, such as blood products, OR time, and tying up physicians and nurses that could be used to treat other patients. And he or she is driving up the cost of insurance for all of us.

There are better arguments (like a rider not letting their misplaced emphasis on 'freedom' supercede protecting their family and loved ones from potentially having to go through a traumatic experience) but the one above is good enough.

Its rare that any decision we make impacts only ourselves. Riding without a helmet is irresponsible. Period.

Just my opinion

Hard to argue with you. I agree, it's very irresponsible to ride without a helmet on.

Although, it would be interesting to see how often a helmet, does or doesn't make a difference when a biker wrecks. Bikers are so vulnerable. I wonder in all biker fatalities, how many of those bikers had a helmet on, and if they didn't. Would it have made a difference anyhow.

The morons that zip around the beltway on their crotch rockets, through traffic, between cars, making their own lanes, etc. at 100 mph or better wouldn't stand a chance if they were wearing a suit of armor, much less a helmet.

Edit: and since I'm going there. Why don't we talk about these idiots for a second. Do buyers of crotch rocket style bikes just check their common sense at the door of the dealership? I'm going to open my car door up the next time one of these dumb *******s tries to pass me on the shoulder.

[Rumrunner6900]

As long as an adult's decision doesn't negatively impact another human being, I truly don't care what anyone does. However, thats not the case with giving motorcycle riders the 'choice' whether to don a helmet or not. Every time a rider lays it down, sustains major injuries, and ends up in a hospital, he's taking up a bed, unnecessarily in many cases, that could be made available to someone else. He's using resources, such as blood products, OR time, and tying up physicians and nurses that could be used to treat other patients. And he or she is driving up the cost of insurance for all of us.

There are better arguments (like a rider not letting their misplaced emphasis on 'freedom' supercede protecting their family and loved ones from potentially having to go through a traumatic experience) but the one above is good enough.

Its rare that any decision we make impacts only ourselves. Riding without a helmet is irresponsible. Period.

Just my opinion

Almost exactly what I was going to say....

As an EMS provider, I am all for helmet laws. The argument that the decision affects only the rider is not true at all. Tell that to the medics that had to pick up Big Ben. Tell that to the surgeons that had to fix his face.

MY ass is the one that is gonna have to scoop your damn brains up off the road. (Yes, it has been done) Or if you live through it, I'll be the one sticking all kinds of tubes in you and getting you to the hospital where they will stick more tubes in you, just to make sure you stay alive....

Not wearing a helmet affect plenty of folks!

[Fergasun]

D'oh... I didn't read Tarhog's post... but he hit the nail right on the head!

[Monkart]

It's absolutely crazy down here in florida considering I have to tell my 9 year old son it's a law (not the reason we insist) that he has to wear a helmet to ride his bike, but it's OK for a Motorcycle rider to do 70 mph without having to wear one. :doh:

[DeanCollins]

.

Although, it would be interesting to see how often a helmet, does or doesn't make a difference when a biker wrecks. Bikers are so vulnerable. I wonder in all biker fatalities, how many of those bikers had a helmet on, and if they didn't. Would it have made a difference anyhow.

no mystery there, check out the USDOT "Hurt report" on motorcylce fatality

statistics 1980 by John Hurt. Not wearing a helmet is a leading cause of death right up there with alcohol :doh:

[Commander PK]

Here's a start on finding some stats... interesting.

http://www.gametheory.net/news/Items/030.html

Let's go back to those CDC statistics that show helmets prevent deaths. If we use the same statistics, but count fatality rates per 10,000 registered motorcycles rather than per all residents, one finds that helmet-law states actually suffered a higher average fatality rate (3.38 deaths per 10,000) than non-helmet-law states (3.05 deaths). This is not sufficient evidence to prove that not wearing a helmet is safer, but it demonstrates that helmet laws do not reduce deaths.

I guess the question I have, will wearing a helmet make any real difference in whether or not a biker survives an accident. I would imagine that most bikers have their accidents at high speeds, because at lower speeds I think an exerienced biker would be able to manuever out of the way before impact. Where I'm going with this, is that, if you hit a moving vehicle while traveling 55 mph or more, your probably not going to survive anyhow, helmet or not. Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit here.

[Commander PK]

Another way to measure the difference is to look at deaths per 100 accidents. Not even helmet advocates suggest that helmets will reduce the number of motorcycle accidents. The purpose of a helmet is to help the rider survive an accident. The numbers indicate otherwise. During the seven-year period from 1987 through 1993, states with no helmet laws or partial helmet laws (for riders under 21) suffered fewer deaths (2.89) per 100 accidents than those states with full helmet laws (2.93 deaths).

From same article. Of course, one must take into account population differences, density of traffic, etc, but odd none the less.

[Destino]

Helmets shouldn't be an option. We wear seat belts because not doing so greatly increases injury in accidents. Same exact logic for bikers. I wouldn't even be against laws demanding that a certain level of protective gear other then a helmet be worn to ride a bike. There are many reasons, most of which Tarhog touched on.

[Fred Jones]

To add to Tarhog's good post, people blow through their insurance when they suffer a serious head injury. The common tax payer then starts picking up the tab. Talking to the trauma people at local Fairfax Hospital they said that head injuries were up in the states that got rid of their helmet law.

[DeanCollins]

Here's a start on finding some stats... interesting.

http://www.gametheory.net/news/Items/030.html

I guess the question I have, will wearing a helmet make any real difference in whether or not a biker survives an accident. I would imagine that most bikers have their accidents at high speeds, because at lower speeds I think an exerienced biker would be able to manuever out of the way before impact. Where I'm going with this, is that, if you hit a moving vehicle while traveling 55 mph or more, your probably not going to survive anyhow, helmet or not. Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit here.

that's contrary to all the studies I've read.

here's some facts and other data

Motorcycle crash statistics show that helmets are about 29 percent effective in preventing crash fatalities. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates an unhelmeted rider is 40 percent more likely to suffer a fatal head injury and 15 percent more likely to incur a nonfatal head injury than a helmeted motorcyclist.

Facts

• Head injury is the leading cause of death in motorcycle crashes. (U.S. Department of Transportation/National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, State Legislative Fact Sheet, 1999)
  
• The Crash Outcome Data Evaluation System (CODES) study found that motorcycle helmets are 67 percent effective in preventing brain injuries and that unhelmeted motorcyclists involved in crashes were more than three times more likely to suffer injuries than whose wearing helmets. (NHTSA, Facts Motorcycle Safety Helmet Use, October, 1999)
  
• Wearing a properly fitted helmet can actually improve the rider's ability to hear by streamlining the head and ear which can deduce wind noise allowing the rider to hear other sounds. (Safe Cycling-Motorcycle Safety Foundation Publication.)
  
• Helmets prevent eye injuries and distraction from dust, dirt and debris thrown up by other vehicles on the road. (Safe Cycling-Motorcycle Safety Foundation Publication.)
  
• Per vehicle mile, motorcyclists are about 26 times as likely as passenger car occupants to die in a traffic crash and about 5 times as likely to be injured. (NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts, 2002)
  
• Hospital stays are longer for unhelmeted riders and the cost to taxpayers is significantly higher since many motorcyclists are uninsured. (Michigan Traffic Safety Information Council.)
  

[Pete]

I didn't even have to read past the first three lines, and new he was an ABATE jockey. :doh: It's the same every time, like a resited prayer. I will say that ABATE does some great stuff for comunities around the country.

You can argue with them all day long, and they will still twist the facts to back up their ideal that it's safer without a helmet on. That's right, they not only believe that you should have the choice, but it's safer without a helmet.

Now, a time limit means little to someone in my business. I get bikes in on a regular basis that are three or four years old and have under 1000 miles on them. In this day and age, there's as many weekend warriors as regular riders, and there dangerous quite often. We have a "Bike night" every three months. We take bets on how many people fall over while trying to make their way through the ultra packed streets. The average is 11, with the next bike night comming up in late july, so it could go up or down.

These people buy all sorts of "Biker" clothing, polish up their scoot, and put the 10 miles on it to show there a biker :laugh: I've seen more chicks fly off the back of bikes there then you can shake a stick at. That doesn't effect the average unless the bike goes down. They drink and dance all night, play the game, and then get on the bike with a buzz on :doh:

Free state safety course.......... Adaquate at best, better then nothing, but that still doesn't give you real road time. I'm too lazy to look up the stats for FL, but fatal accidents have had a big jump since the changed the helmet law. You have to have 10K per person on the bike medical liability to ride without a helmet. Under 18 have to have a helmet on. 10K doesn't even begin to cover the medical cost with a severe head injury.

21 years of age is a hoot too. I'm a 17 year old in a 45 year old body, and there's plenty of us out there, but I guess being 21 means your mature enough.

Like I said in the Ben thread in the around the NFL forum, something which ABATE can never counter.

If I hit you in the head hard with a ball bat, odds are you will be seriously injured, or dead.

If I do the same while you have a helmet on, odds are you may be stunned for a few minutes, but will get back up and chase my sorry azz.

ABATE loby........... :doh:

Helmets save lives................. nuf said

[Ancalagon the Black]

Tarhog made a good point in his post. Here's another view on how helmets affect others:

It's a rainy night, and you're changing lanes. You signal and start pulling out. All of a sudden, a motorcyclist comes zooming out of nowhere in the lane you're pulling into, goes up against the side of your car, and then takes a spill onto the road.

With a helmet, he's probably shaken up and bruised, and you'd call an ambulance and be pretty shaken up yourself.

Without a helmet, he might have his brains all over the road. At best, you would have the memory of playing a part in someone's death your whole life. At worst, you'd be charged with manslaughter.

[HokieJ]

Real simple.

If a biker wrecks with no helmet on the insurance companies should be exempt for paying for their care. They took an undue risk in not putting the helmet on, let them pay the bill for their screw up. Then if they live let them explain to their family how their CHOICE ruined their financial future. Why should everyone else pay for their stupid decision?

Might make them think twice.

You can make a much better argument against the seat belt law then the helmet law. If you buy a bike, and your argument is that the helmet is a seperate purchase and costs too much, you can't afford the bike.

[Commander PK]

I totally agree that if a biker is hurt badly in an accident, and doesn't have a helmet on. The biker should foot the bill for his treatment. If you do this, most bikers are going to wear their helmets, and you won't need to legislate helmet laws. The fear of not being covered would probably be enough in most cases.

[AdamB]

I didn't even have to read past the first three lines, and new he was an ABATE jockey. :doh:

LOL... you too huh...

I'm too lazy to look up the stats for FL, but fatal accidents have had a big jump since the changed the helmet law.

Here ya go:

St. Petersburg Times - August 2005 Basically talks about the increase in fatal accidents after the helmet law was repealed in Florida and the possible reasons, including the repeal of the helmet law, as well as some of the costs associated with treating head injuries, etc.

3 years ago, my sister-in-law put her bike (Vstar 650) down coming back from a rally in Arkansas. She was going to fast for the road conditions and hydroplaned going ~70mph. The back of her helmet was pockmarked and had a decent size crack from the intial impact on the road. She walked away with a mild concussion and some road rash (ditz was wearing a tank top). The bike was totaled.

Living in El Paso, where the temps are already hitting 105, I still wear my full face helmet - talked to too many people who escaped serious head injuries because they were wearing a helmet.

[Thiebear]

A helmet should not be considered a "Seperate Purchase"...

You hit a car and die you ruin that persons life..............

You have a helmet you at least tried to live.

[SkinsNut73]

Almost exactly what I was going to say....

As an EMS provider, I am all for helmet laws. The argument that the decision affects only the rider is not true at all. Tell that to the medics that had to pick up Big Ben. Tell that to the surgeons that had to fix his face.

MY ass is the one that is gonna have to scoop your damn brains up off the road. (Yes, it has been done) Or if you live through it, I'll be the one sticking all kinds of tubes in you and getting you to the hospital where they will stick more tubes in you, just to make sure you stay alive....

Not wearing a helmet affect plenty of folks!

...you guys scoop the brains up? We just take the trash line off the fire truck and wash 'em down the nearest sewer

Not that these stats compare with others given in this thread, but over the last couple of years...in my small little town...we've responded to about a half-dozen motorcycle accidents. Real simple - EVERY accident that involved a helmet-less rider resulted in a death. Two guys survived accidents and both were wearing helmets.

The latest one was a couple of weeks ago...some dude decides to pull a wheelie when the stoplight turns green...falls right on the back of his skull. Dead by the time we arrived on scene.

A couple of years ago some guy pulled out of a McD's in his SUV and cut-off a biker. The helmet-less biker slams right into the driver's side door. When we arrive on scene, his face is missing...literally...no nose, no mouth, no eyes. In a similar accident about a year later, same type of accident, but the biker survived...he was wearing a helmet.

[Pete]

LOL... you too huh...

Here ya go:

St. Petersburg Times - August 2005 Basically talks about the increase in fatal accidents after the helmet law was repealed in Florida and the possible reasons, including the repeal of the helmet law, as well as some of the costs associated with treating head injuries, etc.

3 years ago, my sister-in-law put her bike (Vstar 650) down coming back from a rally in Arkansas. She was going to fast for the road conditions and hydroplaned going ~70mph. The back of her helmet was pockmarked and had a decent size crack from the intial impact on the road. She walked away with a mild concussion and some road rash (ditz was wearing a tank top). The bike was totaled.

Living in El Paso, where the temps are already hitting 105, I still wear my full face helmet - talked to too many people who escaped serious head injuries because they were wearing a helmet.

Same here, we're running in the high 90's and it's a full face all the time. There was an exception 2 days this week. I have a a syst on my neck that's gotten beyond painfull. Even with the neck padding, the full face is unbareable. I haven't ridden the bike to work, but still have to road test at work, so I've been forced to use one of the shops half shells.

Helmets have saved me at least 3 times. Once riding dirt, once on the track, and once in the street. The street accident would have no doubt left me without a left ear. The first thing to hit the street was the left side of my face. That helmet was every bit worth the 300+ I paid for it.