The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[BigMike21]

Mr. Johnson will go when his acting career dies down.. And trust me it will.

And maybe sooner than you think if you have seen the trailer for The Tooth Fairy........GOOD GAWD!!!!!

[TK]

AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle was THE match this past Monday night.

Last Thurs TNA ran for 4 hours with a tourney for the #1 contender for the KnockOuts Championship & sprinkled in 3 PPV matches from last year. Including AJ vs Sting for the title & a 3 way with AJ, Daniels, & Joe.

And they're now going to be running a classics show after iMPACT.

[addicted]

Man how can you guys who've been watching TNA for the past several months be impressed by Monday's show? I watched this last night, and think we just witnessed the worst Imapact and the ending of TNA not the beginning. That looked like it had all of the problems that killed WCW and that the idiots in charge showed they hadn't learned anything. My issues with TNA's 3 Hour special:

1. Hulk Hogan. First of all this isn't 1996 and it's not 1987. Hogan's best days are over. WAY OVER. He isn't nearly the star or the draw that he once was. Every single segment had Mike Tenay and Tazz mentioning Hogan over and over again ignoring the in ring action that was much more interesting. The business with the limo being escourted by police was insulting and way too cartoonish for TNA. If your a wrestling historian you would remember that WCW used to force the talks to constantly be about Hulk Hogan because they thought it meant ratings but in fact it tuned the fans out and that was 13 years ago. Hulk Hogan was known to be a cancer then with an ego out of control and that's exactly what this was, Hulk Hogan's ego. Sure Hulk Hogan's good for a single pop and he is a cult hero but that won't last. TNA's biggest moment in it's history and the face of TNA is a broken down old Hulk Hogan? TNA is beyond stupid for allowing Hogan to bring in his guys and take over the show. Does anyone think that will have traction in 2 months? Who cares about the Nasty Boys, Scott Hall, and X-Pac anymore? Although I have to admit I laughed when I saw Sean Waltman's reaction to Hall when Hall said his name wrong, that was funny. This is old old news and stupid. TNA boasting it was an alternative to the WWE just went out the window and shows they are living in the past. Way to let the hardcore TNA longterm fans down Dixie

2. They showed two ppv main event matches on free TV for ratings. What the ****!!! Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles could main event any ppv of the year. The first ever meeting between Samoa Joe vs. Abyss...if it was built up right that could main event easily. These ppv main event quality matches were not even advertised before this show. That was a huge mistake for WCW and its a huge mistake for TNA. That never should have happened. If it did happen they had to swirve the ending so people would buy a ppv that wanted to see it. If you don't understand what I mean, think about the recent Cena vs. Shamus Raw moments. They teased these two fighting for 3 weeks then had a match at the ppv. Then they teased the rematch for weeks then finally delivered on New Years but gave a swerve ending. If you want to see the real ending you have to buy the ppv. The reason the WWE does that and TNA should have done that is they have to support there business. Giving away the best matches for free on TV gives a fan no reason to buy a ppv. Why buy the cow when the milks free? That was beyond stupid for them to do.

3. Old over the New. TNA's best asset is it's younger under exposed stars. These guys are the backbone of TNA and must be put over by the old guys. The old guys can't hold the spot light because people have seen that before and will turn off. What did we see Monday? Kurt Angle burying AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and Abyss in a meaningless match (was Joe crying before entering the ring? I swore I thought that at one point). A meaningless 8 man cage match that ended horribly. The Moter City Machine Guns laid out? They buried the younger stars. As for the older guys, sure that was sorta interesting but they have no direction for these men. What are they going to do with Sting? Why all the shots of him in the rafters? That made no sense. What about Ric Flair stumbling out to the ramp during the main event taking the spotlight away from AJ Styles then doing nothing but walking away never saying anything. What about the mess with the Nasty Boys ruining Team 3 D's locker room? What wrestling fan out there wants to see that crap? This was stupid. The worst was when Hulk went over Jarret and buried him right after Jarret thanked the fans for there support.

4. Dixie Carter and the Ratings. Who gives a **** about the ratings? Seriously? Who cares about that? Why should I give a damn about this? This isn't 1996. Ratings wars? You've got to be kidding me

I have been a fan for a very long time. I remember the 80's, the 90's, and the 00's. Every time wrestling tried to build on past stars it's ended badly. It's even put companies out of business. What I saw on TNA's biggest ever Impact was terrible. If this is the direction they are going this will end very badly. TNA is about the younger wrestlers, it was never meant to showcase old farts who can't walk let alone wrestle anymore. Absuing the young guys is not a good direction to go in. I really hope they stop craping on themselves before they committ suicide

Edited January 6, 2010 by addicted

[blue collar]

You should care about the ratings because: Low ratings=no sponsers=no TNA iMPACT

Everyone has a right to his opinion, but I disagree with you.

Edited January 6, 2010 by blue collar

[That Redskins Fan]

Monday impact should have been called nitro

caus ethat is what it was.. I was not impressed at all

1. Tna was trying way to hard monday

the val venis and the beautiful people skit was done during the attitude era get real

and speaking on that tna hired every mid card wrestler vince and company release venis orlando jordan one guy who was over Venis and another who never could get over and was mid card for life in jordan

the Nwo reuion who cares- hall is overweight, nash is fifty , waltman is recovering from attmpted sucide and drugs abuse blah at this storyline

and the kicker to me was when Hogan and bischoff said if you cannot talk and work a match pack your bags and go up north

lol so that includes abyss rhyno lashley and the machine guns, jay lethal and consquences creed

that is there mid card talent right there...

not impressed i give 12 ti 18 months and tna will be wcw all over again with the problems of the old wcw

Edited January 6, 2010 by That Redskins Fan

[addicted]

You should care about the ratings because: Low ratings=no sponsers=no TNA iMPACT

TNA has been around for 7 years without winning a single ratings battle and has had TNA Impact on TV for years. The only thing the ratings mean to fans is the better the rating the more money to spend on talent. However if all your going to bring in is washed up 50 year olds then what's the point of that? The reason the wrestlers want ratings is it means more money for them. Low ratings hasn't hurt TNA in the past but I argue that in the persuit of ratings TNA sold it's soul Monday night. TNA, cross the line, is the alternative to the WWE. They have great talent without the need for guys like Scott Hall, Xpac, Hulk Hogan and focusing on those men only takes away from the company and doesn't add anything to the company.

Everyone has a right to his opinion, but I disagree with you.

With what exactly?

[addicted]

1. Tna was trying way to hard monday

the val venis and the beautiful people skit was done during the attitude era get real

Those three are amazing. The skit was stupid I do agree but DAMN I love those girls. They are what's RIGHT about TNA. :grouphug:

and speaking on that tna hired every mid card wrestler vince and company release venis orlando jordan one guy who was over Venis and another who never could get over and was mid card for life in jordan

the Nwo reuion who cares- hall is overweight, nash is fifty , waltman is recovering from attmpted sucide and drugs abuse blah at this storyline

No kidding right? Who thinks these are the right guys to bring in? Stupid stupid stupid

and the kicker to me was when Hogan and bischoff said if you cannot talk and work a match pack your bags and go up north

lol so that includes abyss rhyno lashley and the machine guns, jay lethal and consquences creed

that is there mid card talent right there...

Those men can work. Watching the way they were buried I honestly wondered if this was a rib and not serious or worse yet, is Hogan secretly hired by Vince to stomp out TNA?

not impressed i give 12 ti 18 months and tna will be wcw all over again with the problems of the old wcw

I give them 2 weeks

[ACW]

Beautiful People :hump:

[SkinzFoLife]

TNA has been around for 7 years without winning a single ratings battle and has had TNA Impact on TV for years. The only thing the ratings mean to fans is the better the rating the more money to spend on talent. However if all your going to bring in is washed up 50 year olds then what's the point of that? The reason the wrestlers want ratings is it means more money for them. Low ratings hasn't hurt TNA in the past but I argue that in the persuit of ratings TNA sold it's soul Monday night. TNA, cross the line, is the alternative to the WWE. They have great talent without the need for guys like Scott Hall, Xpac, Hulk Hogan and focusing on those men only takes away from the company and doesn't add anything to the company.

With what exactly?

Are you serious? Who cares about the Ratings? Um, let see. The Network, The people who sell ADs, TNA. No Ratings=No Ad Dollars. How do you think they get their money? Their not the WWE who can sell out 10-15K Seat venues. But now they can become more legitmate. Do you remember WCW back in the 80's when they had their weekly show in a TBS Studio??

Then with Nitro then went big. I'm pretty sure thats the same business model TNA is going for.

[addicted]

Are you serious? Who cares about the Ratings? Um, let see. The Network, The people who sell ADs, TNA. No Ratings=No Ad Dollars. How do you think they get their money?

If you know TNA as well as I do then you'd see a few things.

First they never have had good ratings compared to the WWE in the history of the company and have been in business for 7 years.

Second you'd know for the first two+ years of the company's existance they had no real TV show to generate ad revenue. TNA Xplosion was there only show in those days and not broadcast to a large audience. They ran weekly ppv's to pay the bills and sold tickets in the arena for revenue. They did fine without it

Third, the TNA show that was aired on Monday was a complete basterdization of TNA's last 7 years. That was not TNA. That was more of a Monday Nitro then a TNA show. We all know how successful that was. Hogan does not equal ratings. Hogan is not relevant anymore. TNA should not be spending money on crappy talent like they did just fior ratings. Immediate ratings does not equal immediate revenue.

Their not the WWE who can sell out 10-15K Seat venues.

You do know that the ppv's draw no more then 5000 fans right? There is no way in hell that the NWO ressurection will bring in another 10,000 fans to the gate. And for that matter where are you expecting to put them? The Impact Zone doesn't hold that many seats. And to keep costs down TNA has hardly ever traveled. That's not going to change or should because they don't need to travel like the WWE. TNA in other arenas is good for a gimmic but not much more

But now they can become more legitmate. Do you remember WCW back in the 80's when they had their weekly show in a TBS Studio??

Then with Nitro then went big. I'm pretty sure thats the same business model TNA is going for.

It is the same model, and did you know that WCW was known as the NWA in the 1980's and was bankrupt and then bought out by Ted Turner and became World Championship Wrestling, and then again went bankrupt? TNA's 7 year run has been possible by making there own way and by ensuring they didn't fall into the same mistakes that WCW did. Guess what, Monday they acted like they didn't learn anything. Long time fans used to shout things like "who needs HOGAN", I bet that chat returns once the ratings show that Hogan doesn't equal ratings.

Edited January 6, 2010 by addicted

[addicted]

I finally got around to watching Monday Night Raw. My impressions:

1. Bret Hart rolling his eyes when he hugged Shawn Michaels to me stood out. Was that pushed on him by the WWE? Made me wonder

2. The action on Raw failed to compare to TNA. It hardly ever does which is TNA's best strength, again not that they have some old 50 somethings on TV. Match of the night was Orton vs. Kingston but that can't compare to Angle vs. AJ Styles at all.

3. What's the deal with Smackdown? Why did the WWE writers trash the show? Jericho wanted to stay on Raw and lost his match and is forced to go to Smackdown. That's the storyline, but the way they played it out over the past several weeks it's as if Smackdown is the much worse brand and show then Raw. Why are they tearing Smackdown down? And why wouldn't they want Jericho on RAW? He's one of the few old wrestlers they have that can still truely work. Why not give the belts to JericShow and allow them to bless the fans of both shows? I don't get that

4. Finally, McMahon vs. Hart. Stupid. I have to think that Brets down on his luck and needed a payday to go on Raw and agree to do any of that. Hart for the past 13 years has stood by his grund that he wouldn't work for the WWE or get in a WWE ring ever again. In his shoot interviews and public appearances he's never waivered on his distain for Michaels and McMahon. He sold out for this ratings boster and became a McMahon puppet again. As a fan of the man for 20 something years I felt dirty watching the ending of Raw. That was sad to me.

[TK]

Well for those wanting the Monday Night Wars it seems like TNA has moved back to Thursday night.

[blue collar]

Actually, they never left Thursday Nights. The Monday Night show was a one time deal. That doesn't mean that in the future they won't be permanetly on Monday though.

[lovetoaster]

Well for those wanting the Monday Night Wars it seems like TNA has moved back to Thursday night.

Yeah, I think it was just a one night thing for now. I think they had already planned to go back to Thursdays for a while and then re-evaluate things soon.

[TK]

PAUL HEYMAN: The Real Story Behind "The Monday Night War 2010"

[addicted]

Thanks for posting this TK. I found the article at the end really hit the nail on the head for me:

The key for TNA to take advantage of this programming decision is to use the increased attention to finally BRAND their company. Pick a direction, and stick with it. So far, the only hype has been Hulk Hogan declaring himself "The Vince McMahon of TNA" (sounds like the opening line for a Wrestlemania return), and everyone else saying "The Monday Night Wars Are Back! The Monday Night Wars Are Back!"

I need a reason to care about AJ Styles. Seriously, how anyone in TNA can look at themselves in the mirror and accept the fact AJ, the promotion's World Champion and one of the most consistent performers in the industry for over half a decade, is not nearly as well known as Sheamus is simply a crime. I like Sheamus' push, and think WWE made a fantastic decision to elevate a new character into the main event, and present him not as a fluke, but as a real deal.

But for Sheamus to be so much better known to the general public at this point in his career than AJ Styles is not only a sign of WWE's marketing success, but TNA's most glaring failure.

I know why as a fan, Sheamus is to be hated. I don't know why, as a fan, I am supposed to care about AJ Styles. I need a reason to believe in the Motor City Machine Guns. Besides being every school boy's masturbatory fantasy, why should I spend my time thinking about Lacey Von Erich? Is Awesome Kong the Cris Cyborg of pro wrestling? If so, demonstrate that to me.

TNA has a chance to capitalize on its home network's desire to derail USA Network's momentum. Character development and TNA-brand-building are key. Tonight, TNA has the opportunity to declare to the public something far more substantive than "check out a bunch of former WWE big name stars in a six sided ring with some of our own guys who aren't quite so recognizable."

Tonight, TNA has a chance to deliver. Deliver to their own audience. Deliver to the 8pm Eastern Time curiosity viewers Hulk Hogan's involvement may bring in. And most importantly, deliver a market study for SpikeTV execs to learn a little more about the true Ultimate Champion of the Monday Night

That's exactly how I saw things too and exactly why I crapped all over the show after seeing it. Any one's who's been watching for the past couple of years knows that the in ring action in TNA is there best selling point. What they did on Monday was try and kill all of the young stars in TNA. Why? Because Hulk Hogan still has stroke and his guys will always steal the spotlight from the younger guys.

Hogan's not a guy who's going to act like the members of the main event mafia did and put over unknown men like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Abyss, Motor City Machine Guns, Daniels, and all of the others. He doesn't care about selling the company, he cares about himself. The sooner that Dixie Carter figures that out the sooner this abomination ends. Or fans are gonna watch as guys bail on the company and leave. And if your shows nothing but stars 20 years past there prime no ones gonna watch.

[blue collar]

That was a very good read. I particularly agree with what he said about the WWE's Sheamus and TNA's AJ Styles. It is a crime that Sheamus after a few months is more famous than AJ styles even though AJ has been one of the best wrestlers for almost a decade.

[blue collar]

I don't know if it's official, but I've heard rumors that TNA will be going to the traditional four sided ring.

[Galvatron]

I don't know if it's official, but I've heard rumors that TNA will be going to the traditional four sided ring.

Thats great news. I could never get into TNA because the six sided ring seemed so silly looking to me.

[addicted]

That was a very good read. I particularly agree with what he said about the WWE's Sheamus and TNA's AJ Styles. It is a crime that Sheamus after a few months is more famous than AJ styles even though AJ has been one of the best wrestlers for almost a decade.

Completely agree, but there lies a problem with AJ. Did you know that AJ Styles was once in the WWE?

If not there is one of his matches. Why didn't AJ Styles get a push while he was in the WWF? To me it comes down to size. Smaller guys like AJ won't ever be considered worthy of the WWE. Today they still value size over skill. Sure there are a few guys out there today that are small but they aren't ever going to get the kind of push they should. Evan Bourne has much more skill then Sheamus does but does anyone think he'll ever get a world title push? Why has a big man with zero charisma or ability like Mark Henry continue to turn out match after match taking up valuable TV time but guys like AJ and Samoa Joe get a cup of coffee match and shown the door? Size doesn't mean ability but until the WWE pushes guys like this all they have is TNA to earn a living from and when you see old run down guys like Hulk Hogan steal the spotlight like they did Monday you know this is never going to ever change

[addicted]

I don't know if it's official, but I've heard rumors that TNA will be going to the traditional four sided ring.

This favors the big men, not the smaller stars who use the corners and top ropes much more. I hope this is not true, if it is it's just another sign to me that TNA is in it's last days.

[Redskinzfan30]

Thats great news. I could never get into TNA because the six sided ring seemed so silly looking to me.

Same with me. I haven't watched wrestling in a while but I may give TNA a chance if this happens.

[TK]

Thats great news. I could never get into TNA because the six sided ring seemed so silly looking to me.

See, to me, the six sided ring is what helped make TNA's brand because it was different. More then Vince's four sided ring, but not MMA's octagon either.

[addicted]

Anyone catch Mike Tyson on Raw last night? I really marked out when he was in the ring pushing Michaels around. Overall wasn't a bad show at all. Saw this today and thought some might enjoy it:

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Canadian+wrestling+icon+Bret+Hitman+Hart+returns+after+years/2426606/story.html

I'll be at this Wrestlemania too so I hope this happens!

[blue collar]

If you thought last nights show was good, then you guys have really lowered your expectations. IMO, Mike Tyson was horrible on the Mic and in the ring. Who didn't see a triple threat match with Cena, Kofi and Orton for a chance to face Sheamus at RR and who didn't see Tyson double crossing Jericho to end the night with him and DX posing in the ring coming?

The only good part of last nights show was MVP and The Miz.