It's no Surprise -(I don't trust Gibbs and Williams)!

[Guest santana4prez]

The Redskins overpay (and overcharge) for everyone and everything!

Do you really think we could not have to Rocky 5-10 picks later?

And to pay what we did for the move-up?

It's the same thing we did last year for Jason C. We did not need to move up so many spots to get him.

We're over-valuing players in the draft, and free agency (Antwaan, for example).

I mean, OK Synder (Redskins), we get it. You love to spend money... but be smart! Don't over-value and don't overpay. You could have waited more picks to trade up for Rocky and you could have given less for it. Why do I care? Cause we're the ones paying the price for these blunders @ 119 a ticket.

Eventually all of this is going to catch up to us. We can't keep overextending ourselves by pulling magic to get under the cap and trade away picks like their free candy. Eventually we're gonna have to say, "You know what, let's just be like a normal team this year and not trade up and pay for what we did the year before. We put ourselves in this place, we gave away our pick." EVENTUALLY this system will collapse under its own bloated weight... Obviously we're trying to win now, but after Gibbs leaves there are going to be DARK years around here as we pay the price.

Randle El - We overpayed a little so the Bears couldnt get him.

Campbell - Was a damn good trade if Campbell is a franchise QB and we did have to move where we did to get him. Campbell was rising on draft boards.

As for todays trade maybe next years 2nd was to much but to get a LB that they really wanted and they know will start is a plus. You cant be certain that Rocky would of been on the board at #53.

Cool down buddy Gibbs and Gregg Williams are legends. I think they know what is best for the Skins. Last season shows they are going in the right direction. Maybe the Skins dont care as much about next years 2nd rd pick if they think that Rocky is the last starter needed on this football team this year.

[Davethegolfguy]

Why not go ahead and get the guy you really want. If anybody else from this draft makes the team, I'll be surprised. I think we gaot a sleeper. I don't know what the rest of us do for a living, but that is their job to find the right kind of players for the team we love so much. Have some faith!!!

[NoVaSkins21]

Hey at first I was feeling like the original poster and serious doubting the thought process behind the pick but Coach Gibbs and G. Williams have a method to their madness. This guy's versitility is an incredible asset, especially since it allows M. Washington to rush the passer. I hope now that the Skins go ahead and address pressing needs at CB and OL with their remaining selections.

[HailfrmDEN]

we should hasve taken williams we dont have harris to mess up like a vetran who stinks and lets touch downs go like bailey this is baileys third yuear there watch him go for the big play and take them from first to last

[SkinsDukes]

we should hasve taken williams we dont have harris to mess up like a vetran who stinks and lets touch downs go like bailey this is baileys third yuear there watch him go for the big play and take them from first to last

Punctuation is your friend...

[HailfrmDEN]

lets hope we get mcphearson the maryland corner

[HailfrmDEN]

its the miami linebacker to go with taylor motovation kill therm i say

[playoffsplz]

this post=:pooh:

I'm not sure if you got the memo but negative fans went out of style after last years playoff season.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Some past ExtremeSkins members' thoughts on Rocky McInto...um, I mean, Chris Cooley:

"I think we overpaid for this guy ... next year's second round ... ugh!!!"

"A second round pick? blah. For a TE?"

"Too high a price IMO. 2nd rounders are potential starters."

"A second rounder is far more valuable than a third rounder. Next year we'll be shaking our heads that we traded a friggin second rounder away for a backup TE / H-back."

"every team is dieing for a 4.8+ TE....not....this guy was drafted to do yeoman-like work. he improves us at a position where the talent is thin....but he doesn't elevate the offense to a different plane. this is a big yawner in my opinion."

"Yeah, just looking at the picks for this, we are basicly using next years 2nd for thins guy, and we lose, like 20 spots in the 5th. This guy better be worth it"

:doh: :doh: :doh:

[nonniey]

My first thoughts on the trade up was that we paid too much and that we could have waited and got McIntosh at 53 (or at least a few picks lower). Research and events proved that my first thoughts were wrong. The value of the Redkins traded picks was 550 pts and the value of pick #35 was 550pts, we didn't overpay. Howard, the next lower rated LB, went at 39 showing the Redskins guessed correctly to move up that high.

[herrmag]

One thing I've learned over the past few years...Never freak out about a draft pick. It may make you look stupid. Remember this board after we took Taylor over Winslow? I was one of the idiots.

[tex]

not every team wants to trade. you go with what you can get. rocky might have been there a little later. question is could the redskins acquire the appropriate pick to make it work later? from the sound of things the redskins were very happy to get that phone call from the jets.

[PleaseGoForTheWin]

they know how to play the system aggressivley and perfectly.

Agressively, but not perfectly. I don't mind the FA moves, but losing all of these picks hurts the team. This draft is very deep, and we missed out. Some teams were able to get 2 or 3 probable starters yesterday, and we only got one. Furthermore, we've lost a 2nd rounder next year and our 4th (or was it third) next year due to the Lloyd trade.

That said, Rocky gives us the depth we need at LB. Here's to hoping we find a good corner, because our secondary sruggled against the long-ball last year.

[ZoEd]

Why would we close a thread that can be discussed?

People are gonna start gettin smacked for the famous "in before close" post.

As for the topic, these moves that we have made in the past haven't bitten us yet. How can someone say that a player is over valued until we actually see how he pans out over the course of a season or two.

I have to agree with you here. The only FA player we've brought in that hasn't really made an impact is Holdman. Every high pick we've used has started and made an impact except Campbell who was drafted as a project and FUTURE starter. Rocky was drafted to fill a specific need, the only hole on our team WLB. He's built to play this and all other LB positions. This will free up MW and allow him to be the beast that he is.

So I don't really see why there is so much crying by fans. Honestly we keep going after proven NFL players. How does that not make sense? Why waste money on draft picks that have have never played a down in the NFL? Seems like we're the only team playing it smart. Sooner than later other NFL teams will follow.

This FA frenzy philosophy has done nothing but give us a young team that full of proven talent. You couple that with the best coaching staff, arguably ever, in the NFL and you have a recipe for a batch of good old fashion but whoopin. Honestly people should look at the big picture before starting a whinning thread. This team is finally headed in the right direction and you still find people complaining about it. :2cents:

[raperry2]

i think he has a good point about overvaluing players but i still think gibbs, cerrato, snyder, williams are all trustable guys.

[ZoEd]

Agressively, but not perfectly. I don't mind the FA moves, but losing all of these picks hurts the team. This draft is very deep, and we missed out. Some teams were able to get 2 or 3 probable starters yesterday, and we only got one. Furthermore, we've lost a 2nd rounder next year and our 4th (or was it third) next year due to the Lloyd trade.

That said, Rocky gives us the depth we need at LB. Here's to hoping we find a good corner, because our secondary sruggled against the long-ball last year.

My only problem with your logic is this. We only had one glaring hole on our team, LB. We filled it. You said 2 or 3 PROBABLE starters. I'll take proven players over probable rookies anyday. The FA's we've signed are all young guys, not Deions or Bruce Smiths. Furthermore we still have some cap room and there will be plenty of opportunities to get depth at CB, O-line and any other position needed. With this coaching staff servicable players are all that's needed for depth and there are plenty out there.

[FootballGuy2677]

I don't think alot of fans understand how the Redskins work in the draft.

We fill most of our holes with veteran players through free agency. When were done with that we add quality players from the draft. When we add quality players from the draft we often try to go for the best avaible that fits our system(Roger McIntosh for example). We don't care how much rookies we get, we just want the best we can get to fill our holes even if it means only drafting two players out of the draft.

Sorry if that dosnt make any sense. Sorta hard to explain

[ZoEd]

i think he has a good point about overvaluing players but i still think gibbs, cerrato, snyder, williams are all trustable guys.

You're right, we probably paid too much for several players. Over valuing them? I don't know. Here's an analogy for you.

I look at it like this. You have this autographed Art Monk rookie card. How much is it worth to you? How much is it worth to a Dallas fan?

You see a player is worth as much as a team is willing to pay. Lloyd may not be worth much to a team like Arizona who is stacked at WR but for us he fills a glaring hole so why not pay him for it. ARE is a unique player that fills several holes on this team, return man, receiver, and a threat to keep defenses on their toes with the the old trick play. Why not pay him for it?

We identify players that could make an impact and we go get them and pay them for it. All of you saying we over pay are ignoring the fact that we passed on players like John Abraham and TO. The pre Gibbs front office would have been throwing money at these guys to "buy" a championship. Instead we acquired young players that can make an impact for this team for many years to come. What part of this logic is flawed?

[TheGreek1973]

After reading today's post about how we had trageted Rocky with our 53 pick and how all the LBs were going like its out of style I like this move to get him. When you have a need and target a player YOU MUST do a deal. We have a need, and we did the deal. End of story.

As for JC and last year's trade apperently Joe loved the Kid and wanted him. The way things turned out I also love that move because JC is now at least familiar with the NFL, the system, and can take over from Brunell. Now if you think JC would/could have been taken in the 2nd round all I got to say that is BS. Joe apperently thinks this kid can be the QB of the skins for the next 10 years and you think he should not have tried to trade up to get him? What are you smoking?

The only mistake that I can see from Gibbs last year was the White instead of Chris Canty pick because first Canty was a projected high second late first if not for the injury AND was a HUGE need, much bigger than White IMO.

[PCRoughrider]

According to the trade value chart the 53rd pick is worth 370 points, the 189th pick is worth 15.8 points. The 35th pick is worth 550 points. So, we gave up 385.8 points plus a second round pick next year (which is worth less this year than it will be next year) to get a 550 point value.

It's probably works out about even.

[jeronimobrat]

I am viewing alot of post replies on here that are suggesting that we gave up too much for McIntosh. Let's say if we had given up the 1st and 3rd in 2007 along with a 2nd rounder of this year to draft Cromartie- would that price had been too steep. Most definately! It does us very well in the first round of next year to find Shawn Springs prodeccesor then!:gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck

[Bad Man Burgendy & Gold]

I am hearing far to much of this, always trust the staff BS. Listen Gibbs is the man, but Cerrato doesn't get a free pass, and as a fan why should I give him a free pass if he made a mistake? Some of you act like this is a cult, and you can never question the moves the Redskins make, least you then must be considered not a fan. That is seriously the most convuluted way of thinking I've heard in a while, get a grip.

[JimmiJo]

I am hearing far to much of this, always trust the staff BS. Listen Gibbs is the man, but Cerrato doesn't get a free pass, and as a fan why should I give him a free pass if he made a mistake? Some of you act like this is a cult, and you can never question the moves the Redskins make, least you then must be considered not a fan. That is seriously the most convuluted way of thinking I've heard in a while, get a grip.

You make a good point inasmuch as we should be able to analyze what our team does without criticism. However, some of us who were around during two strike-year SB runs remember what Gibbs is capable of doing with talent, remembering how we beat a dallas team featuring mostly pros using only scabbs.

Gibbs (and Williams as well) have the ability to get players to play beyond themselves - ala UFAs who started here for years and the manner in which the defense performed through injuries the past two years, bringing in guys off the street who played well.

You may want to consider that after so many years watching this and other teams, some of us may have a good perspective on what this coach and staff are capable of, as we have seen time and again how Gibbs wins with no-names.

By all accounts this kid has talent. Kipper et al assert that he is starting-caliber material. We needed a starter and it appears we got one. We still have 5 picks today remaining and who knows what may happen by next year's draft.

[Bad Man Burgendy & Gold]

I'm not even questioning the pick, I hated it at first, but the more its talked about the more I like it, sounds like this guy not only is a real good linemen, but has a great vertical leap and will be a threat to intercept passes over the middle. I just don't like it when fans who disagree with something have their "fanship" questioned, but I know what kind of results Gibbs produces, which is why you will not hear me criticize Gibbs. Like I said, Cerrato is open game fo me though

[Sknsnation]

I don't think some of you are thinking clearly to think McIntosh would have fallen to 53. There was a tremendous run on backers. There were legitimately TWO backers left of any real value, McIntosh and Howard. We picked Rocky. Three picks later Howard went. No backers since. The Raiders obviously would have taken a backer and could have taken our guy. A number of teams could have taken Rocky had we not moved up after Jackson went. The way the draft fell dictated we move up to assure we got the guy we wanted. The team identified McIntosh as the guy they wanted and had trades mapped out with each team in the second round, ready to pull the trigger and make calls based on their internal board showing how many players at each position were falling. Seeing quality backers falling off the board dictated the move.

:applause: I wish everyone else could see this logic.