British soldiers beat up kids while camera man cheers on

[Larry]

I wasn't referring to anyone posting here. I was referring primarily to liberal politicians and others in the media.

I would bet that you'd have a hard time finding one politician or one mediot who said it was America's fault. I'd bet that the closest you can find is along the lines of "well, if we weren't there, then it'd be a lot harder for them to kidnap Americans".

[Sarge]

You know, I'm all for nice, peaceful protests.

But when you start throwing rocks and bricks, you're out of line and need your ass kicked.

Anyone that thinks different, I'm retiring in 8 weeks. I'll finally be able to use my season tickets this fall and look forward to meeting some of you. But let's see how long you look forward to meeting me if I start throwing rocks at you.

[Larry]

Im not saying i would turn the other cheek. I wouldnt. Maybe you shouldnt assume that events like these automatically turn people into suicide bombers.

OK, so you have now stated that you, personally, would try to get even with the occupying soldiers who beat you up when you were an unarmed kid.

Please, pray tell us what method you would use.

[PleaseBlitz]

OK, so you have now stated that you, personally, would try to get even with the occupying soldiers who beat you up when you were an unarmed kid.

Please, pray tell us what method you would use.

I dont know. I havent been in that situation. Thats my whole point. For you guys to try and tell everyone what someone youve never met that lives thousands of miles away and grew up in a completely different culture and is in a circumstance that you cant possibly fathom, would do, is inane. So just stop.

I do know that I wouldnt become a suicide bomber, as you fellas have assumed those hoods would do. I guess assumptions come pretty easy though when you are sitting in front of your Dell in your comfy living room, possibly sipping on some nice tea and watching satelitte TV. Probably a little more difficult when it is an actual DECISION that you have to make that will accually AFFECT your life and possibly result in your DEATH.

[Teller]

I have just as much outrage when I see their deplorable actions, but you know what, they are not Americans. I expect them to act that way, because they are savages, we are NOT!!! Once we ignore our rules of law to fight the enemy, we have already lost. It is because doing this does FAR FAR more dammage to our country then 9-11 did.

We are a country who has ALWAYS held itself to a higher standard, and now, more then ever this should be the way we conduct ourselves. ESPECIALLY after the entire Abu Ghriab fiasco, as well as the Gitmo crap that has been going on. We are a CIVILIZED nation, who has a basis in LAW and ORDER. We are NOT savages like the people we are fighting, and we can not stoop too their level. For the second we do, we have already lost!!!

Sorry Larry, the official liberal position is that they ARE savages! :laugh: Sorry, couldn't pass up that opportunity to generalize.

Seriously though, I understand what you're saying chom. I too expect our troops to conduct themselves according to the laws of warfare. I had a "laws of warfare" class twice a year during my entire time in the military. I doubt any Iraqi insurgent has had such a class even once.

However, our media making a months-long story out of some pictures, with the SOLE purpose of disparaging our military is as harmful -- if not moreso -- than the pictures themselves.

Again, we've lost our perspective. Embarassing pictures = bad. Butchering civilians = infinitely worse. I almost feel like I'm watching "Insurgent TV" instead of United States media outlets. I'm tired of our men and women being made out to be the evil their fighting. It's just wrong -- morally AND factually.

[Larry]

I dont know. I havent been in that situation. Thats my whole point. For you guys to try and tell everyone what someone youve never met that lives thousands of miles away and grew up in a completely different culture and is in a circumstance that you cant possibly fathom, would do, is inane. So just stop.

I do know that I wouldnt become a suicide bomber, as you fellas have assumed those hoods would do. I guess assumptions come pretty easy though when you are sitting in front of your Dell in your comfy living room, possibly sipping on some nice tea and watching satelitte TV. Probably a little more difficult when it is an actual DECISION that you have to make that will accually AFFECT your life and possibly result in your DEATH.

And yet, there certainly is evidence that folks "over there" do regard becoming a suicide bomber as a not-unthinkable career choice. It doesn't appear to be the choice of the majority, but it's not exactly unheard of, either.

[PleaseBlitz]

And yet, there certainly is evidence that folks "over there" do regard becoming a suicide bomber as a not-unthinkable career choice. It doesn't appear to be the choice of the majority, but it's not exactly unheard of, either.

Welcome to being a moderate. We finally agree.

I cant see that any human being would make the decision to blow themselves up lightly.

"oh, that guy hit me! Time to strap it on and blow up a market!"

A few? Yes. Most? Not even close. Probably far less than 1%. But it makes a huge impact and headlines when that small fraction does carry out those actions.

Point being: To say that from seeing this video, that these Brits A. are totally in the wrong, and B. did more harm than good because now those thugs are definitely going to become suicide bombers and kill lots of people, is probably less than accurate. Then again, im making assumptions. :whoknows:

[ChocolateCitySkin]

No Sarge, They'll be strapping bombs to their bodies and blowing themselves up to take out MANY soldiers now :doh: This is part of the reason for all of the hatred towards the soldiers, and why so many think it is justified to attack them.

Man, when will you people learn crap like this IS the problem with Iraq? I mentioned this in the other thread on this incident, I think this is atrocious behavior, and it can not be condoned. The reason it needs to be punished severely and quickly is because it gives the other 99% of our soldiers doing yomans work a BAD NAME. . . and to have another soldier actually make fun of the situation is pretty bad Sarge. You of all people should know what behavior like this leads to.

No the problem is wussies that don't want to take action because you're afraid you're going to offend someone. *cough* you *cough* *cough* It's bs pc attitude people have these days where they are afraid to discipline their children because they're afraid of the repercussions.

Hows that going with not breaking an egg to make an omelete? Working out for you?

Frankly, these fanatical dopes over there are so brainwashed they don't know their heads from their *******s. And yes they represent the minority-- However, they represent the minority with guns. They need to be eradicated before they get a nuke.

The only problem I see with this Iraq war is the timing. We should've kicked the crap out of Iran and THEN Iraq.

[chomerics]

You have no idea WHAT they see on a day to day basis. Again, arrogance. Just because you are anti-war, you think everything every Iraqi sees over there is Americans doing evil.

Show me a poll where the average Iraqi WANTS the US over there. If you want to start saying that you know more then I do, and that your experience has told you something different, then bring something more to the table then "I just know." I told you about a poll on how the Iraqi's feel about our occupation. It was done in November I believe, but I would venture a guess that it hasn't changed much. In the poll, 45% of the people say that attacks on US troops are JUSTIFIED!!!! It is even as high as 65% in some reigons!!!

If you disagree, then show me WHY you disagree, and HOW I am wrong, because your "I've been there and seen it first hand" doesn't cut it. You're on a message board, and you could be Karl Rove for all I know, if you want to have some credibbility, then show me where I am wrong about their resentment towards us.

Dont even start your "you have lost the argument" bull. You said that the next logical step for Iraqis is to become suicide bombers. Dont you think that is kind of a big step? But hey! It sounds good from your POV. All Iraqis just want to be suicide bombers. :doh:

If you can't see the correlation, or the connection between hatred and the actions of these soldiers, then you are not being honest. You have admitted that you would not turn the other cheek, yet you don't want to make the jump to say this stuff causes terrorism. . . The truly ironic part about the entire debate is that you are just like the terrorists in terms of where you fall on an ideological spectrum. Both of you are right wing, yet you still fail to acknowledge that attacks like this cause people to become terrorists. . . even though you admit that you would become one. . . as you say here.

Im not saying i would turn the other cheek. I wouldnt.

Thanks for proving my point Blitz, you have discussed nothing about the ideology of the people you are fighting, and have not acknowledged why this is detremental to what we are trying to accomplish. But instead, used it as a pulpet to try and call me out. . .unfortunately for yourself, you ended up calling out yourself.

[chomerics]

No the problem is wussies that don't want to take action because you're afraid you're going to offend someone. *cough* you *cough* *cough* It's bs pc attitude people have these days where they are afraid to discipline their children because they're afraid of the repercussions.

What the hell does being PC have to do with soldiers beating the crap out of unarmed kids and laughing about it??? What are you saying here???

Frankly, these fanatical dopes over there are so brainwashed they don't know their heads from their *******s. And yes they represent the minority-- However, they represent the minority with guns. They need to be eradicated before they get a nuke.

The only problem I see with this Iraq war is the timing. We should've kicked the crap out of Iran and THEN Iraq.

Ahhh, nuke em all right? That's the way to go, just make a real big parking lot out of the Middle East, and the 20 million Muslims in the US would do nothing then huh :doh:

[ChocolateCitySkin]

What the hell does being PC have to do with soldiers beating the crap out of unarmed kids and laughing about it??? What are you saying here???

Ahhh, nuke em all right? That's the way to go, just make a real big parking lot out of the Middle East, and the 20 million Muslims in the US would do nothing then huh :doh:

I didn't mention nuke. Maybe you should have my sig. I don't see why I should have to feel sympathy for some punks attacking soldiers. Oh because you're a pansy and think knocking them around is going to turn them into a bunch of bombers. Case in point a majority of the middle east is pro-west. However, all the religious nuts have the weapons. Therefore, logically speaking you eradicate enough of these nuts with weapons than maybe the moderate people can have a chance of living peacefully.

I can totally see you being the guy arguing that America should have never been involved in WWII.

[chomerics]

I didn't mention nuke. Maybe you should have my sig. I don't see why I should have to feel sympathy for some punks attacking soldiers. Oh because you're a pansy and think knocking them around is going to turn them into a bunch of bombers. Case in point a majority of the middle east is pro-west. However, all the religious nuts have the weapons. Therefore, logically speaking you eradicate enough of these nuts with weapons than maybe the moderate people can have a chance of living peacefully.

So, I'm a "pansy" because I say beating up defenseless kids is wrong? Maybe you're just a rotten bully? Have you ever thought of that?

And the "majority of the Middle East is pro west?" Ummm, not any more. Maybe you should take a look at some polls from the past year, and look at what they think about the west, because you are so far off the mark here is it hysterical.

I can totally see you being the guy arguing that America should have never been involved in WWII.

Of course you could, and you would be 100% wrong. I am all for military intervention when it is needed. I have no problem with the using the military, but if you would have actually read my posts, you would see where the issue I have arises from. Maybe you should stop "assuming" things about other people and start "asking questions", because you assumptions are not even clost to being right. . . but then again, you were probably one of those guys that just "assumed" Iraqi's would shower us with hugs, kisses and roses, not roadside bombs and IEDs right?

[AbleDanger]

Where has a single person on this board said that one of the beheadings was "our" fault? Did you read what Tarhog posted a few posts ago? Where d o you get off saying something as completely ludicrous, and blatently false as this?

I have just as much outrage when I see their deplorable actions, but you know what, they are not Americans. I expect them to act that way, because they are savages, we are NOT!!! Once we ignore our rules of law to fight the enemy, we have already lost. It is because doing this does FAR FAR more dammage to our country then 9-11 did.

We are a country who has ALWAYS held itself to a higher standard, and now, more then ever this should be the way we conduct ourselves. ESPECIALLY after the entire Abu Ghriab fiasco, as well as the Gitmo crap that has been going on. We are a CIVILIZED nation, who has a basis in LAW and ORDER. We are NOT savages like the people we are fighting, and we can not stoop too their level. For the second we do, we have already lost!!!

I've already responded to this. My statement wasn't directed at anyone on this board specifically.

[Sarge]

So, I'm a "pansy" because I say beating up defenseless kids is wrong?

They were throwing rocks and bricks and crap, weren't they? They were only "defenseless" once they got caught.

They got caught and paid a stiff price. Maybe they shoud have been in school in the first place instead of playing jihad joe

[AbleDanger]

I would bet that you'd have a hard time finding one politician or one mediot who said it was America's fault. I'd bet that the closest you can find is along the lines of "well, if we weren't there, then it'd be a lot harder for them to kidnap Americans".

Nicholas Berg's father blamed U.S. policy for his son's death instead of blaming the terrorists that killed Berg.

[AbleDanger]

You know, I'm all for nice, peaceful protests.

But when you start throwing rocks and bricks, you're out of line and need your ass kicked.

Anyone that thinks different, I'm retiring in 8 weeks. I'll finally be able to use my season tickets this fall and look forward to meeting some of you. But let's see how long you look forward to meeting me if I start throwing rocks at you.

:laugh:

[ChocolateCitySkin]

So, I'm a "pansy" because I say beating up defenseless kids is wrong? Maybe you're just a rotten bully? Have you ever thought of that?

And the "majority of the Middle East is pro west?" Ummm, not any more. Maybe you should take a look at some polls from the past year, and look at what they think about the west, because you are so far off the mark here is it hysterical.

Yeah maybe I am. I don't generally feel sympathy for people that I perceive to have squandered their existence. Whether it be Americans or Middle-easterners.

As for polls I could give a crap what polls Al Gore been taking amongst his Muslim peoples. I think I'd rather go by talking with Middle easterners that actually have connections back to those countries.

As for what I said earlier the only problem I have with the Iraq war was timing. Should've gone after Iran first.

[chomerics]

Yeah maybe I am. I don't generally feel sympathy for people that I perceive to have squandered their existence. Whether it be Americans or Middle-easterners.

As for polls I could give a crap what polls Al Gore been taking amongst his Muslim peoples. I think I'd rather go by talking with Middle easterners that actually have connections back to those countries.

So in other words, you have nothing, just an "I say it is so, so it is". . . gotcha :doh:

[chomerics]

They were throwing rocks and bricks and crap, weren't they? They were only "defenseless" once they got caught.

They got caught and paid a stiff price. Maybe they shoud have been in school in the first place instead of playing jihad joe

I don't necessarily disagree with you here Sarge, but you are justifying what the soldiers did, and it is wrong to do so. You are a soldier, and you have your own set of rules you have to obide by. If they are broken, the soldiers should be punished, just as if they had committed other offenses. It is not only wrong, but it undermines our support from the inside out, and it does more to hurt our efforts to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis". . .but if you are not trying to do that any more then fine, just admit it.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

So in other words, you have nothing, just an "I say it is so, so it is". . . gotcha :doh:

I guess thats a lot better than "recent muslim polls." :doh::doh:

[Sarge]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here Sarge, but you are justifying what the soldiers did, and it is wrong to do so. You are a soldier, and you have your own set of rules you have to obide by. If they are broken, the soldiers should be punished, just as if they had committed other offenses. It is not only wrong, but it undermines our support from the inside out, and it does more to hurt our efforts to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis". . .but if you are not trying to do that any more then fine, just admit it.

Maybe they should have just shot them.

[nuposse87]

1- the kids are beyond retarded for throwing those rocks

2- the camera man has problems and deserves to be hanged

3- anyone who condones the beating of child (these kids couldn't have been older then 17) probably gottem as they were a kid cause they have archaic parents who broughtem up with that lifestyle. (I've gotten mine, don't you worry)

4- elminating radical islam will probably require killing 35 million+ muslims (YAY for genocide!!!)

5- I'll take muslim polls in depicting the state of the mid-east people's mind set over some asinine presumptuous piece of **** any day

6- Al Qaeda will definitly use this as bait for more suicide bombers. If anything these kids will helpem with their day-to-day operations. Put ur self in their shoes, you get paid to blow urself up, bring "honor" to ur family, life in "paradise" and revenge, you don't think they'd say yes. These kids got nothing goin for em. What have they to lose?

[ChocolateCitySkin]

1- the kids are beyond retarded for throwing those rocks

2- the camera man has problems and deserves to be hanged

3- anyone who condones the beating of child (these kids couldn't have been older then 17) probably gottem as they were a kid cause they have archaic parents who broughtem up with that lifestyle. (I've gotten mine, don't you worry)

4- elminating radical islam will probably require killing 35 million+ muslims (YAY for genocide!!!)

5- I'll take muslim polls in depicting the state of the mid-east people's mind set over some asinine presumptuous piece of **** any day

6- Al Qaeda will definitly use this as bait for more suicide bombers. If anything these kids will helpem with their day-to-day operations. Put ur self in their shoes, you get paid to blow urself up, bring "honor" to ur family, life in "paradise" and revenge, you don't think they'd say yes. These kids got nothing goin for em. What have they to lose?

I'm impressed you're from lorton and you can count all the way up to six!!! You should give yourself a pat on the back. Glad you could summarize the middle east in those steps.

[Bang]

I'll bet those kids won't crossing the Brits and throwing bricks at them anymore:laugh:

Here here.

Hey, here's a suggestion,, you don't want soldiers to beat your ass? Don't throw rocks and bricks at them.

As to the play by play,,, you can add audio to any piece of film rather easily,, not saying they did, but audio alone is not very strong evidence.

It's very easy to judge from an easy chair what is done in the heat of battle, and this is the sort of thing that ties our hands in the field.

I didn't see them really break any rules,, i saw one guy hitting them with a rod, hardly deadly force,, i saw some rock throwing young men getting roughed up by those that they tried to brain with said rocks.

I'd say they're extremely lucky that the Brits didn't open fire on them.

~Bang

[nuposse87]

well at least i got the presumptuous part right. How bout reply to my statements, rather then to where i'm from. State your rebuke to what I said or go away. Stereotyping ass clowns like you are the reason the US gets a bad rep. Go **** yourself.