Drockvb Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Doesn't the Judge acknowledge Christs existance every time he writes or reads a date. Example Jan. 6 2006. 2006=A.D. Meaning A.D. started on Christs' birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I can kindof understand someone who says Jesus is not God... but my God... How much writings does there have to be about the "Fact" a man named Jesus actually walked this earth 2000 years ago.... Take the bible out of the equation... there are tons of historical facts. You miss the point completely and it also seems you don't know what side of this debate I fall on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Chom I have to strongly disagree with you. Evangelicals are no different then any other group. They have their beliefs and voters are smart enough to know what they are. They have as much a right to be involved in their nations politics as you or I do. I have no problem with evangelicals getting involved in politics as long as they view ALL religions equally. Prophet obviously has an inferior view of Muslims, as do most evangelicals. It is their reasoning process, and bringing religous superiority INTO politics is wrong. I personally have no issue with evangelicals, or Muslims, or Jews, or Shinto's etc etc, but what I DO have a problem with is looking inferiorly to others simply because of their religious views. Here, let me explain it like this. Prophet believes that Muslims are stupid. Why do I believe Prophet thinks Muslims are stupid? Because he believes that his god is the only god, and everyone else is worshiping false prophets (and no, the irony doesn't escape me). Now, would you think someone who spends their entire life worshiping a false god smart? The inference is there for all to see, and it is how prejudiced feelings are born. It is always based on one group of society believing the other group is wrong in their beliefs. This kind ot thought belongs nowhere in politics, and this is why the founding fathers wanted to keep the church seperate from the state. It is a fundamental rule of good government IMO. Now, that is not saying that evangelicals or any other religion can not get into politics, but if they do, they have to put our conuntries laws before their own beliefs. That is something I'm not sure many of them are willing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 :laugh: Chom, you're hopeless You do not see the elitism in your own views. At least I acknowlege I think I am superior to most of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Yet you deny the fact that your belief system about politics is your "religion". Yet its ok for you to believe the way you do... and allow it to effect your "political decisions. Yet its ok for you to say a person of "faith" should never be elected. That is fascism. Re-read what I said, I am talking about people who put their faith BOFORE the country. I have stated this ad-nauseum, but you chose to ignore the point. Here is the reason you chose to ignore it, because you would have to agree with what I said. It is much easier for you to look at your own image without questoning what beliefs you have should be modified, or even to question the fact that you think Muslims are inferior to you because they "worship a false god. . . probably a demon". It is not the religion that I have a problem with, it is the INTOLERANCE bred in the religion where the problem lies, and the fact that evangelicals would put their religion before their country. My thoughts have to do with putting my COUNTRY first, not a religous belief, or diety, but a document. The Constitution of the United States of America is what should be followed, and your beliefs keep you from following that document. Looking down on another religion, and considering their religion not equal to yours is not the intent of the law, nor was it in the minds of our founding fathers. If I was elected, and everyone knew my beliefs... why else would I get elected in the first place unless the majority felt that way? Why do people get elected... because people agree with what they believe. The majority is not always right, hell, they elected Bush last election :doh: You also make a gynormous mistake to think people would elect you SOLELY based on your religion, which is completely false in it's premise. People vote for many different reasons, and just because you recieve a majority does not mean they ALL voted for you because of your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 :laugh: Chom, you're hopeless You do not see the elitism in your own views. At least I acknowlege I think I am superior to most of you So show me WHERE I am elitist. Give me a specific example, and show me how what I am thinking is elitist. Is it because I want to put the Constitution before religion? That is not elitist, unless you think our founding fathers made an elitist document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 So show me WHERE I am elitist. Give me a specific example, and show me how what I am thinking is elitist. Is it because I want to put the Constitution before religion? That is not elitist, unless you think our founding fathers made an elitist document. I will let your posts speak for me You don't think the founding fathers were elitist? They were good men ,but come on ,you surely know your history better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 WRONG! you have said many times in signature and word that people that believe in God are intellectually dishonest at best and mental in some cases.You don't believe in God just as I am currently at... Lets not throw false statements up there unless you not only went from the Patriots back to the skins and from no God to God at the same time.... What, Nitzche? "Is man one of God's biggest blunders, or is God one of man's biggest blunders?" . . . How does this go against what I am saying? Because I don't believe in something intangible does not mean I look down on people because of religion. You mey THINK that I do, but I do not. My parents are religious, as is my entire family, I don't look down on them, I chose not to believe in the same things. If you want to call me out, then at least bring a post to the table, and one with context so we can discuss it. . . but the Nitzche quote has nothing to do with superiority, or is it intolerant. It is philosophical, and it makes you think, that is why I used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I will let your posts speak for me You don't think the founding fathers were elitist? They were good men ,but come on ,you surely know your history better than that. Actually, I do. That's why placed the focus on the Constitution itself, and not the men who created it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 So show me WHERE I am elitist. Give me a specific example, and show me how what I am thinking is elitist. Is it because I want to put the Constitution before religion? That is not elitist, unless you think our founding fathers made an elitist document. Everything you stand for IS YOUR "RELIGION" comerics. Its ok to bring your biased belief system into politics, and change whatever law or challenge any part of the consituitoin that seems to fit your belief system. I should have the same right to take what I believe into any situation. One thing you may not know, about God's word is... as a christian I am instructed to 1 Peter 2: 13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men As a Christian I am told to follow the law of the land. Since we live in a democracy.. I also have the right to do whatever is within the law (just like you) and pursue whatever avenue that I feel is right. Name any key issue.. you will choose your side, and I will be on oneside or the other on it. I have the right to be on whatever side I feel is right, and pursue the correct avenues to have things altered. 1 Peter 2:17 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. You may say what does this have to do with it? "honor the king" He is speaking of nero. Nero one of the most cruelist individuals in the history of chrisitiandom. Who slaughtered thousands of christians, and crazy laws against them... yet Paul says honor him, and his rule as king? Why... Because God has placed in him in that place of leadership to start with. For what reason... I don't always know, but I take it for what it is. Just another piece to throw in... This means... how Clinton was treated was wrong. I do not believe he should have been dishonored world wide even in his moment of weekness... because as our leader he should have been given respect as a leader. Same goes for Bush he should garner from the liberals respect & honor regardless... because he is the "leader" of the country. Lastly, I also know this is not my time as a Christian on this earth. And the only thing I can do to bring about my time is to "watch & pray". So if I was in a leadership position here in America. There is no choice I could make as a leader that would make the "return" of Jesus happen. The only thing I can do is pray... This is what i'm commissioned to do. This is the only thing I can do to bring about "the coming". Do I hate muslim.. nope. I hate no man... I believe what I believe is right just like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Everything you stand for IS YOUR "RELIGION" comerics. Its ok to bring your biased belief system into politics, and change whatever law or challenge any part of the consituitoin that seems to fit your belief system. I should have the same right to take what I believe into any situation.One thing you may not know, about God's word is... as a christian I am instructed to 1 Peter 2: 13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men As a Christian I am told to follow the law of the land. Since we live in a democracy.. I also have the right to do whatever is within the law (just like you) and pursue whatever avenue that I feel is right. Name any key issue.. you will choose your side, and I will be on oneside or the other on it. I have the right to be on whatever side I feel is right, and pursue the correct avenues to have things altered. 1 Peter 2:17 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. You may say what does this have to do with it? "honor the king" He is speaking of nero. Nero one of the most cruelist individuals in the history of chrisitiandom. Who slaughtered thousands of christians, and crazy laws against them... yet Paul says honor him, and his rule as king? Why... Because God has placed in him in that place of leadership to start with. For what reason... I don't always know, but I take it for what it is. Just another piece to throw in... This means... how Clinton was treated was wrong. I do not believe he should have been dishonored world wide even in his moment of weekness... because as our leader he should have been given respect as a leader. Same goes for Bush he should garner from the liberals respect & honor regardless... because he is the "leader" of the country. Lastly, I also know this is not my time as a Christian on this earth. And the only thing I can do to bring about my time is to "watch & pray". So if I was in a leadership position here in America. There is no choice I could make as a leader that would make the "return" of Jesus happen. The only thing I can do is pray... This is what i'm commissioned to do. This is the only thing I can do to bring about "the coming". Do I hate muslim.. nope. I hate no man... I believe what I believe is right just like you. A "belief" is not necessarily a religion here is a definition of religion. Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion There a lots of sources to get definitions for the wqrd but all contain a belief in the supernatural. I haven't heard chom argue for the supernatural in his posts. Political beliefs are not necessarily a "religion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Here is the reason you chose to ignore it, because you would have to agree with what I said. It is much easier for you to look at your own image without questoning what beliefs you have should be modified, or even to question the fact that you think Muslims are inferior to you because they "worship a false god. . . probably a demon". It is not the religion that I have a problem with, it is the INTOLERANCE bred in the religion where the problem lies, and the fact that evangelicals would put their religion before their country. My thoughts have to do with putting my COUNTRY first, not a religous belief, or diety, but a document. The Constitution of the United States of America is what should be followed, and your beliefs keep you from following that document. Looking down on another religion, and considering their religion not equal to yours is not the intent of the law, nor was it in the minds of our founding fathers. Chom, don't you think that just about EVERY religion believes they are the only right belief and all others are wrong? Shoot even athiests believe that. That's exactly what a belief is: "Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something". If you believe something is the truth, you can't very well give equal credence to others' beliefs that something else is the truth. Especially when, the very nature of the truth makes it impossible for it to be true, if another truth is also truth. (perhaps I should use a thesaurus nex time... :laugh: ) I can certainly agree with the sentiment of leaving each man to choose his own beliefs and live his own life without persecution as a result. But I think that anyone who doesn't acknowledge that he holds his own perspective of the truth higher than the perspective of an unbeliever -- is probably trying to sell you something. And I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 A "belief" is not necessarily a religion here is a definition of religion.Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion There a lots of sources to get definitions for the wqrd but all contain a belief in the supernatural. I haven't heard chom argue for the supernatural in his posts. Political beliefs are not necessarily a "religion". I am not talking about the supernatural in this converstaion with chom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I am not talking about the supernatural in this converstaion with chom. Originally Posted by prophet Everything you stand for IS YOUR "RELIGION" comerics. Its ok to bring your biased belief system into politics, and change whatever law or challenge any part of the consituitoin that seems to fit your belief system. I should have the same right to take what I believe into any situation. You just said it was his "religion" if you are discussing religion you are discussing the supernatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 In my circles? What circles are those, exactly? You've made the wild assumption that not only do I hold monotheistic beliefs, but they're fairly closed-minded Christian ones as well. False on both accounts. I suppose you could categorize me as "agnostic," but I don't really like the term. When I initially wrote that passage, I thought it was prophet I was replying to, not you. Sorry about that, it's because both of you have the same avitar. When I went back and edited the post, I missed the assumption part. Point noted. Either way, there wasn't supposed to be any religious undertone to my post at all, which is why I stressed historical figure. As far as I knew it was pretty widely accepted by the archaeological and historical communities that a person named Jesus lived in the Middle East in the first century A.D. That was all I was saying. Sorry about the confusion, like I said before I thought initially I was replying to prophet, but when I re-read the post, I saw that it was you, and I edited. the last part. I probably should have just edited the entire thing. As for this part. . . In particular, look at the bolded section. Who can "they" possibly be referring to other than liberals? It sure looks to me like liberals "believe their position is the only true and just one." (Your words, not mine.) If that isn't what you meant, I'm willing to leave it at that. Let's continue... I do believe that is how a lot of liberals think, but I do not think that way. The question was asked as to why use the sensationalistic adjective, and I replied my thoughts on the manner. I have a pretty good bead on the liberals of the world, and I do know how a lot of them think, I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, but I believe I know where they are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 When I initially wrote that passage, I thought it was prophet I was replying to, not you. Sorry about that, it's because both of you have the same avitar. When I went back and edited the post, I missed the assumption part. Point noted. Sorry about the confusion, like I said before I thought initially I was replying to prophet, but when I re-read the post, I saw that it was you, and I edited. the last part. I probably should have just edited the entire thing. As for this part. . . I do believe that is how a lot of liberals think, but I do not think that way. The question was asked as to why use the sensationalistic adjective, and I replied my thoughts on the manner. I have a pretty good bead on the liberals of the world, and I do know how a lot of them think, I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, but I believe I know where they are coming from. Clears a lot of things up. Thanks. Probably got a little too defensive there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Chom, don't you think that just about EVERY religion believes they are the only right belief and all others are wrong? Shoot even athiests believe that. That's exactly what a belief is: "Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something". If you believe something is the truth, you can't very well give equal credence to others' beliefs that something else is the truth. Especially when, the very nature of the truth makes it impossible for it to be true, if another truth is also truth. (perhaps I should use a thesaurus nex time... :laugh: ) I can certainly agree with the sentiment of leaving each man to choose his own beliefs and live his own life without persecution as a result. But I think that anyone who doesn't acknowledge that he holds his own perspective of the truth higher than the perspective of an unbeliever -- is probably trying to sell you something. And I'm not buying it. I understand what you are saying, and I agree. I just want to make sure their religous beliefs stay the hell away from our government!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Clears a lot of things up. Thanks. Probably got a little too defensive there. Not at all, I always come across as abrasive, but that is just my ummm . . . style :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I understand what you are saying, and I agree. I just want to make sure their religous beliefs stay the hell away from our government!!! Then what you believe about how things should be should stay away from goverment as well... otherwise its a double standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 :doh: First thomas was not the closest to Jesus... actually read the bible, and find out... John was. and do you even read what you write? YOU JUST SAID YOU DIDN'T DO ANY OF THE RESEARCH... YET your previous post says this Originally Posted by Xameil "and I'll base my beliefs on what I was told from a pulpit mixed in with my own research from supposed experts from the region, various religions, and historians." I see why you are confused... i can not respond to you again... I think i'm actually getting dumber by the second every time you post some hairball thought. wrong again. I read the Bible, and John was not the closest sorry. And funny you should say that. I felt I was getting dumber reading your idiotic closed minded bible thumping posts. And of course you can't respond...your IQ is WAY too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 The "beloved disciple" was closest to Jesus (if that was his real name..no real proof). Although he must have been pretty fond of Lazarus too considering. Love the Gospel of Thomas..He probably was pretty close to him seeing as how he was his "twin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Then what you believe about how things should be should stay away from goverment as well... otherwise its a double standard is our Constitution a double standard? Because I believe in our constitution it is not a double standard, you just fail to see it. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly to you, but this has never been about religion, but religion AND politics. Because I think they should be kept away from each other isn't a double standard, it is what our country is BASED ON!!!! Because I believe in our Constitution, and I think it should be followed is now a double standard in your eyes. . . yet extoling your version of reality, looking down on other religions, not treating them as equals is A-OK in your book. Hell, you have every right to think like that, but you should not be runnig in politics, because you would be contradicting the constitution. The reason you run for office is to UPHOLD the constitution, not to eliminate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Religion and Politics has NEVER been about seperations.. It's ALWAYS been about all inclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 IMO religion should be allowed in politics. I wonder why an Atheist has never been elected to high office in this country. Because people do care about religion in their politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 IMO religion should be allowed in politics. I wonder why an Atheist has never been elected to high office in this country. Because people do care about religion in their politics. Your opinion would be wrong according to the founding fathers, and our Constitution. Just so you understand this, you are saying you don't believe our Constitution was right, and that we should change one of the basic tenents of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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