Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest

[chomerics]

There is one God, The Christian God. There are many false gods...most likely demons who call themselves gods. This may not be popular but, yes I believe allah is one of them. Doesn't mean i hate or dislike a muslim, but I think they are greatly decieved... just like they think I am.

And this is exactly why evangelicals should keep their nose out of politics.

It has nothing to do with christian or racial hatred, but when you view another race, or religion as inferior to yours, you are undermining the constitution.

You have every right to believe this, and the other side thinks the same, I agree. . . but the second policy starts getting made with this mindset ingrained into peoples heads, the seperation of church and state is blurred, as well as almost all the principals our founding fathers build this nation on.

[prophet]

All the teachings, and stories in all three came from the Dead Sea scrolls. All have the same people in them, and same basic premises. Last time I checked, Luke Skywalker was fighting Darth Vader, not a T-1000.

side step...

ummm the torah is in the old testament... so yes its the same. nothing is the koran is line by line the same thing.... it may mention certain people... but go to barnes and noble, and you can find other books that do this as well. They are completly different books.

If you think otherwise... "again"

show me something side by side in the koran & torah that says they are the same?

luke (good: the choosen one", Terminator boy (the choosen one), fighting evil, robots... ect ect... same theme

[prophet]

And this is exactly why evangelicals should keep their nose out of politics.

It has nothing to do with christian or racial hatred, but when you view another race, or religion as inferior to yours, you are undermining the constitution. What a statement to make... You have elevated your "thinking & vaules" above everyone else's view. You take your belief system (ie your religion), and make it superier to everyone else's, and call it at the same time perfect politics. Do you understand how off base you are?

You have every right to believe this, and the other side thinks the same, I agree. . . but the second policy starts getting made with this mindset ingrained into peoples heads, the seperation of church and state is blurred, as well as almost all the principals our founding fathers build this nation on.

Do you mean like the a liberal hate against conservatives, and vise versa? This is a major bigoted statement by you.. You are saying what you believe is above what I believe, and therefore... people that have my belief have no place in politics... how communist is that?.... sound the hater siren.

You have "religion" wether you know it or not... its called your belief & value system. And you have elevated your "religious system" above all others... and you want that "religious" system in polotics and none other... are you wearing a arm band yet?

That is what separates you from me. I believe you can believe what you believe, and live how you want(within the law)... and have your hand in whatever politics you want... just like any people group should have. I thank God that "Christians will never" dominate American politics... just like I think God.. liberals or any other people group. Both would be disasterous

But I think... that with what you have said in your first sentence... people with type of elitist thinking should be put on a watch list... because it boarders on Hitlerism.

[Xameil]

side step...

ummm the torah is in the old testament... so yes its the same. nothing is the koran is line by line the same thing.... it may mention certain people... but go to barnes and noble, and you can find other books that do this as well. They are completly different books.

If you think otherwise... "again"

show me something side by side in the koran & torah that says they are the same?

luke (good: the choosen one", Terminator boy (the choosen one), fighting evil, robots... ect ect... same theme

I never said they were exactly the same. I said they were alike. Same BASIC stories, and people, different interpretations. Kinda like Beuwolf, and Grendel.

[prophet]

I never said they were exactly the same. I said they were alike. Same BASIC stories, and people, different interpretations. Kinda like Beuwolf, and Grendel.

I see what you are saying... but seriously I can't think of one story in either that are the same... Just some of the same people referenced in two different ways.

They are completly different books.

[twa]

If they have differences how can they be the same? come on seriously.

We believe Jesus is God, islam says only a prophet... If we believe Jesus is God its not the same as allah.

YHWH is not the same as allah.

The early Allah before Mohamadism was and continues to be GOD.

The fact muslims(as well as the jews) do not recognise Jesus as the Messiah does not change God

Many supposed christians doubt the virgin birth...does that change God? NO

You can certainly say it has a bearing on thier salvation,But thats another arguement. :laugh:

[Xameil]

I see what you are saying... but seriously I can't think of one story in either that are the same... Just some of the same people referenced in two different ways.

They are completly different books.

Well, then I must have been told completely wrong things by other people. But, from what I have read in certain little excerpts (and no I'm sorry I can't remembr specifics) they are similar in ways. But, I do know they all came from the same source. They all originated from the Dead Sea scrolls. And same characters and situations are similar are they not? Teachings of peace, are they different? What does the Koran say for Creation? Anything?

oh and here

http://www.answers.com/topic/similarities-between-the-bible-and-the-qur-an

[prophet]

The early Allah before Mohamadism was and continues to be GOD.

The fact muslims(as well as the jews) do not recognise Jesus as the Messiah does not change God

Many supposed christians doubt the virgin birth...does that change God? NO

You can certainly say it has a bearing on thier salvation,But thats another arguement. :laugh:

There is not a "true" christian that denies the virgin birth... just like there is not a true practicing jew or muslim.. that eats pork.

And the fact that you miss about Christianity is that Jesus is God. So therefore it would be different.

again I will ask the question... IF the Christian God is Father, Son, Sprirt... and islam does not belief Allah is this.... they are worship two different gods.

[twa]

Prophet ,do you agree they STARTED with the same God?(before Mohamed)

If so, THEY changed NOT God.

Jesus was (is)a aspect or form of God,but not seperate from the whole.

[prophet]

Well, then I must have been told completely wrong things by other people. But, from what I have read in certain little excerpts (and no I'm sorry I can't remembr specifics) they are similar in ways. But, I do know they all came from the same source. They all originated from the Dead Sea scrolls. And same characters and situations are similar are they not? Teachings of peace, are they different? What does the Koran say for Creation? Anything?

oh and here

http://www.answers.coopic/similarities-between-the-bible-and-the-qur-an

These were the books found in the dead sea scrolls.... none of them are in the koran

http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/library/scroll.htm

[Xameil]

There is not a "true" christian that denies the virgin birth... just like there is not a true practicing jew or muslim.. that eats pork.

And the fact that you miss about Christianity is that Jesus is God. So therefore it would be different.

again I will ask the question... IF the Christian God is Father, Son, Sprirt... and islam does not belief Allah is this.... they are worship two different gods.

umm actually the holy trinity is God is the father, son and holy spirit...not Jesus being God.

Jesus is the Son of God, not God himself.

[Xameil]

These were the books found in the dead sea scrolls.... none of them are in the koran

http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/library/scroll.htm

click on the link. It shows the similarities between the two. Obvioiusly not word for word, but the stories are there. One example is Adam and Eve. Genesis of the bible, and also mentioned in the Koran. Maybe not as emphasized, but there none the less.

[prophet]

Prophet ,do you agree they STARTED with the same God?(before Mohamed)

No, they did not start the same... Most people in Judaism & Christians belief allah is derived from a pagan moon god that mohamed severed... see earlier post. Do a search there are plenty of information on the internet about it.

Their essential characters of each God are completely different is another reason.

[prophet]

umm actually the holy trinity is God is the father, son and holy spirit...not Jesus being God.

Jesus is the Son of God, not God himself.

Jesus is 100% God & 100% man

[Xameil]

Jesus is 100% God & 100% man

So then you believe that there are 2 Gods. That's Blasphemy. Jesus sits on the right side of God. Therefore by your reasoning, God sits next to himself. Also, he talked and prayed to himself. Interesting.

[jpillian]

The trininty means God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three in one.

To say that Jesus is not God, is blasphemy.

Jesus sits on the right hand of the FATHER -- not God as you stated, Xameil.

If you can't fully crasp this concept, not to worry -- it's a mystery to all of humanity.

[prophet]

So then you believe that there are 2 Gods. That's Blasphemy. Jesus sits on the right side of God. Therefore by your reasoning, God sits next to himself. Also, he talked and prayed to himself. Interesting.

John 8:

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[a] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The Jewish picked up stones to stone Him, because He said he was I AM.

next

John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

There it is in plain english... take it up with Jesus... because he said it.

How it all works I'm not sure... i probably can come up with some inferior theory... but for now I'll leave it to Him... because he is the only one that really knows...

[Xameil]

That was plain English?!?

All I could get out of that was that Jesus was WITH God...not God himself.

Also, you can find passages I'm sure where Jesus calls to his Father. His Father is God, so either he has a split personality, or God is a separate entity. So if God is a separate entity, and Jesus is God, then there are 2. Plus, the word of John is not the word of Jesus is it? So I'm sure there was a tad bit of artistic freedom in the writing.

[rincewind]

Don't know why everyone is arguing with Prophet - i mean going by his name evidently God talks directly to him, so he should know. (that's a joke - sorta)

Prophet, my main problem is your attack against Chom and the way you compare him to Hitler, not a name that should be thrown around lightly. He only said that he feels the religious should stay out of politics (an extreme view of seperation of Church and State) and you compare him to a Genocidacial maniac? And this after you claim that Allah is a demon - nice.

[Xameil]

Don't know why everyone is arguing with Prophet - i mean going by his name evidently God talks directly to him, so he should know. (that's a joke - sorta)

QUOTE]

:laugh: :laugh:

I was thinking the same thing.

[jpillian]

Or maybe we just don't understand the nature of our Creator, Xamiel?

And as a created being, can never truly understand it?

All of your perceptions are based on the things of which you are familiar. In the created world, creatures cannot have several beings in one being (without being somehow schizophrenic or possessed).

Obviously, Christianity's contention is that God is made up of three beings, that are simultaneously seperate, and simultaneously together.

If you go back to the base assumption -- the story of creation in Genesis -- that God the Father is the Creator and we His Creatures, it is very reasonable that we would not understand our Maker.

[Xameil]

Or maybe we just don't understand the nature of our Creator, Xamiel?

And as a created being, can never truly understand it?

All of your perceptions are based on the things of which you are familiar. In the created world, creatures cannot have several beings in one being (without being somehow schizophrenic or possessed).

Obviously, Christianity's contention is that God is made up of three beings, that are simultaneously seperate, and simultaneously together.

If you go back to the base assumption -- the story of creation in Genesis -- that God the Father is the Creator and we His Creatures, it is very reasonable that we would not understand our Maker.

I completely agree with you here. No one on Earth can truely understand. That's why I find people who argue what they say is fact i have a problem with. It is known fact that the Bible was written years after the events took place. It is also a known fact that it was mis-translated in many ways. All I was saying was that Jesus is not the Creator. Jesus was the SON of God sent to us in mortal form. That doesn't make him God himself.

[prophet]

That was plain English?!?

All I could get out of that was that Jesus was WITH God...not God himself.

Also, you can find passages I'm sure where Jesus calls to his Father. His Father is God, so either he has a split personality, or God is a separate entity. So if God is a separate entity, and Jesus is God, then there are 2. Plus, the word of John is not the word of Jesus is it? So I'm sure there was a tad bit of artistic freedom in the writing.

John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Is that hard to read?

Have you ever heard of the concept of an avatar? A phyisical embodiment of God. God used a phyisical form (Jesus)to relate to man.

Have you ever held an inner conversation with your conscience? Body, Soul, Spirit. that is what we are... your soul is your mind, will, emotions... your spirit is the eternal essesence of your being. And your body is a dirt suit. So when anybody considers his actions... his spirit - reflects(talks to) his soul.

Man is 3 in 1 . God is 3 in 1

Now that i'm offically classified as crazy....I hope that makes sense :laugh:

[prophet]

Don't know why everyone is arguing with Prophet - i mean going by his name evidently God talks directly to him, so he should know. (that's a joke - sorta)

Prophet, my main problem is your attack against Chom and the way you compare him to Hitler, not a name that should be thrown around lightly. He only said that he feels the religious should stay out of politics (an extreme view of seperation of Church and State) and you compare him to a Genocidacial maniac? And this after you claim that Allah is a demon - nice.

for shock factor my friend...

but in reality how is it different...

One group can have a say in politics and push their "religious" system... yet my kind can't? Ask the holocaust surviver if he should of had a voice in politics in the 30's. He made a fascist statement.

[Xameil]

John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Is that hard to read?

Have you ever heard of the concept of an avatar? A phyisical embodiment of God. God used a phyisical form (Jesus)to relate to man.

Have you ever held an inner conversation with your conscience? Body, Soul, Spirit. that is what we are... your soul is your mind, will, emotions... your spirit is the eternal essesence of your being. And your body is a dirt suit. So when anybody considers his actions... his spirit - reflects(talks to) his soul.

Man is 3 in 1 . God is 3 in 1

Now that i'm offically classified as crazy....I hope that makes sense :laugh:

right God is 3 in 1. but not vice versa. God can speak through the mortal Jesus. Jesus does not speak through God. God SENT Jesus to us. Therefore Jesus is a different entity. Seriously, if you take the Bible word for word, you are nuts. It was commissioned by a Roman Emporer. That is how many centuries after? You look at the writings and see one thing, and show one example. If I had the time to I could quote you more that say Jesus is NOT God. The Bible contradicts itself all the time. This is because they are STORIES passed down from generation to generation. These are FACTS, not ramblings from someone standing in a pulpit asking for your money.