prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 What I've always been told in religious studies classes is that Allah is simply the Arabic word for god and that as far as it's used by Muslims it's referring to the same entity as the Judeo-Christian God. I'd go back to the religious studies class, and get my money ... because they lied to you. Another common belief amoung Christians & Judaism is that Allah comes from ancient Sumerians Moon-god named "sin" for Semites. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. Do a google search for the info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'd go back to the religious studies class, and get my money ... because they lied to you.Another common belief amoung Christians & Judaism is that Allah comes from ancient Sumerians Moon-god named "sin" for Semites. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. Do a google search for the info... Don't be offended if I don't take you at your word right away, but this is something I'll look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Don't be offended if I don't take you at your word right away, but this is something I'll look into. Not offended... I'm not even saying that this is the reason to debunk the whole thing..., I can't tell you if that is right or not. I'm just saying whats out there, about it. the real reason to debunk it is the first I gave you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'm not saying that, But I can guarandamntee you that many "christians" feel that way.Pat Robertson has said on his website and in public that methodists, presbetarians (sp?) and episcopalians (sp?) are all going to hell, they don't meet the "criteria" of being a christian. I grew up in a baptist church and I know that that's how many of the people there felt. Besides, I remember doing a poll a year or so ago asking about the definition of being a christian. It means different things to different people, but by definition, it's supposed to be the belief and acceptance of Jesus being the literal son of god that died for all of our sins. Not everyone thinks that is the sole definition. Specifically, I'm saying that out of the 70% or so of people in the US, that identify themselves as "christians" do not fit the definition. I was raised in a Baptist Church and I think what you are confusing is We do not believe ANY church membership saves you (even ours),it is a personal experience(recognizing sinfull condition,repenting,accepting Christ's sacrifice for us). I think many confuse the Baptists rejection of church membership for salvation with denying other denominations can be (or are) saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'd go back to the religious studies class, and get my money ... because they lied to you.Another common belief amoung Christians & Judaism is that Allah comes from ancient Sumerians Moon-god named "sin" for Semites. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. Do a google search for the info... Muslims BELIEVE it is the same God and that you guys just veered off the path. Of course you believe something different, but it is part of their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I was raised in a Baptist Church and I think what you are confusing is We do not believe ANY church membership saves you (even ours),it is a personal experience(recognizing sinfull condition,repenting,accepting Christ's sacrifice for us). I think many confuse the Baptists rejection of church membership for salvation with denying other denominations can be (or are) saved. No, I totally understand that. Here's my point, my uncle and aunt are methodist and I went to a methodist college. They don't "accept" christ in the same way that baptist and pentacostals do. I know this is over simplifying it, but they basically figure that if you go to church you are covered. Yes, I understand that for the most part, they believe that Jesus was the literal son of god, but they don't make the "born again" gesture. It's like catholics being cristened when they are a baby. That's not a decision a baby makes. They just have it done to them. The southern baptist church I grew up in does not recognize that as being "born again". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Muslims BELIEVE it is the same God and that you guys just veered off the path.Of course you believe something different, but it is part of their faith. I believe Allah is the same God I worship as a christian and the jews worship as Yaweh or Elohim . The differences are christians recognise Jesus as his son,while muslims consider him only a prophet and reject that he died as a sacrifice for our sins,much the same as the jews did not recognise him as the Messiah. Prophet...you may not agree ,but there can be only ONE . OR do you also claim the jews do not worship the same God as christians because they deny the Christ? God the father is still God even if someone does not recognise the son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartestmaninamerica Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Well Jesus of Nazareth is a historical character written about by historians of the day, so his 'existence' should be pretty easy to prove. As easy as proving the existence of Buddha or Mohammed or any of those folks. Proving that he is the Son of God, of course, would be more difficult as that is more of a matter of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 No, I totally understand that.Here's my point, my uncle and aunt are methodist and I went to a methodist college. They don't "accept" christ in the same way that baptist and pentacostals do. I know this is over simplifying it, but they basically figure that if you go to church you are covered. Yes, I understand that for the most part, they believe that Jesus was the literal son of god, but they don't make the "born again" gesture. It's like catholics being cristened when they are a baby. That's not a decision a baby makes. They just have it done to them. The southern baptist church I grew up in does not recognize that as being "born again". That goes back to the personal experience ...We believe once you reach a age where you recognize right from wrong(age of accountability) they must be Saved (recognise nature,repent,accept Christ's sacrifice). The Methodist I know call it confirmation I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I believe Allah is the same God I worship as a christian and the jews worship as Yaweh or Elohim .The differences are christians recognise Jesus as his son,while muslims consider him only a prophet and reject that he died as a sacrifice for our sins,much the same as the jews did not recognise him as the Messiah. Prophet...you may not agree ,but there can be only ONE . OR do you also claim the jews do not worship the same God as christians because they deny the Christ? God the father is still God even if someone does not recognise the son Exactly. The Old Testament, Tora, and Koran are almost all the same. Same basic "stories", and cast of "characters". They all have their prophets. Christians just believe that Christ was the chosen one, and was the son of God. As for proof of Jesus, the proof is in the Dead Sea scrolls. There are more then just the 4 Gospels. Those are just the accepted ones by the Catholic Church. There is the Gospel of Mary (yup, Mary Magdeline. I'm sure you will hear more about it after The DaVinci Code comes out in the theatres), there is the Gospel of Thomas, which was deemed heresy by the Catholic Church, and by some considered as close to the actual word of Jesus. My point is there are several documented things saying a man Jesus of Nazareth existed. A big main problem is that the Bible was written centuries after, and was translated from a dead language. So there are definitely issues with mis-interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Come on, Mike.Life and death situations, however you feel or believe on the issue are the proper purview of legal review. We may even disagree that the government should 'step in' but the setting of boundaries is not an insane idea. But proving Jesus exists is ridiculous. Prove any abstract concept is 'real.' I don't disagree, but I also thought Congress passing a bill specifically for one person and forcing courts to see the issue, after it had all ready been tried been ad-nauseum was worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 A big main problem is that the Bible was written centuries after, and was translated from a dead language. So there are definitely issues with mis-interpretations. Great post. We all know that consistantly, over time, stories get exaggerated. There are countless tails of great heros and the "magical" story of Jesus is not all that unique. There are other stories of immaculate conceptions and great deeds etc... IMO, this was a means of lending credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 I don't disagree, but I also thought Congress passing a bill specifically for one person and forcing courts to see the issue, after it had all ready been tried been ad-nauseum was worse. They just did it again for that silver medalist figure skater... I guess it depends on the issue on how outraged we get over a bill for one person on the democratic leadership side... Soldiers that fight and get wounded for out Country? Wait in line. Figure skater > front of the line. Terri Schiavo > outrage... But again, IF 3 billion people believe he was alive in one form or another, I think the Prove he existed is out of line in a courtroom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I believe Allah is the same God I worship as a christian and the jews worship as Yaweh or Elohim .The differences are christians recognise Jesus as his son,while muslims consider him only a prophet and reject that he died as a sacrifice for our sins,much the same as the jews did not recognise him as the Messiah. Prophet...you may not agree ,but there can be only ONE . OR do you also claim the jews do not worship the same God as christians because they deny the Christ? God the father is still God even if someone does not recognise the son If they have differences how can they be the same? come on seriously. We believe Jesus is God, islam says only a prophet... If we believe Jesus is God its not the same as allah. YHWH is not the same as allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 If they have differences how can they be the same? come on seriously.We believe Jesus is God, islam says only a prophet... If we believe Jesus is God its not the same as allah. YHWH is not the same as allah. So you are saying there's more than one "god". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Exactly. The Old Testament, Tora, and Koran are almost all the same. Same basic "stories", and cast of "characters". They all have their prophets. Christians just believe that Christ was the chosen one, and was the son of God.QUOTE] Please tell me how the Tora, & Koran are almost the same. Give references please. its like saying star wars & the terminator are the same moives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 So you are saying there's more than one "god". There is one God, The Christian God. There are many false gods...most likely demons who call themselves gods. This may not be popular but, yes I believe allah is one of them. Doesn't mean i hate or dislike a muslim, but I think they are greatly decieved... just like they think I am. Some one can say the Big Dipper is god... does that mean I'm suppose to say its the Same so called god as the YHWH? Its politicaly correctness to say allah, and the Christian God are they same. p.s. code are you going to answer my response to you from earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 p.s. code are you going to answer my response to you from earlier? I must have missed it, I'll scan the thread when I get back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Exactly. The Old Testament, Tora, and Koran are almost all the same. Same basic "stories", and cast of "characters". They all have their prophets. Christians just believe that Christ was the chosen one, and was the son of God.QUOTE] Please tell me how the Tora, & Koran are almost the same. Give references please. its like saying star wars & the terminator are the same moives. All the teachings, and stories in all three came from the Dead Sea scrolls. All have the same people in them, and same basic premises. Last time I checked, Luke Skywalker was fighting Darth Vader, not a T-1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Yeh, I was thinking of the Regulus (the cloth that supposedly wiped Jesus' face while he was walking up the hill, and also has his image. I mixed the two up. I was actually watching a show on the history channel today about some of the artifacts of the passion, and one thing they noted was that all these artifacts were lost, then surfaced again at least over 1,000 years later, if not more. My friend told me this one, but has anyone heard there is a church in Scotland that may contain the holy grail (in terms of documents and artifacts) buried below, but that the church will not allow excavation due to damaging the church and unwanted press/tourism should something be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Yeh, I was thinking of the Regulus (the cloth that supposedly wiped Jesus' face while he was walking up the hill, and also has his image. I mixed the two up.I was actually watching a show on the history channel today about some of the artifacts of the passion, and one thing they noted was that all these artifacts were lost, then surfaced again at least over 1,000 years later, if not more. My friend told me this one, but has anyone heard there is a church in Scotland that may contain the holy grail (in terms of documents and artifacts) buried below, but that the church will not allow excavation due to damaging the church and unwanted press/tourism should something be found? The church that your friend talked about is also in The DaVinci Code. It's a replica of a MUCH older building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 The church that your friend talked about is also in The DaVinci Code. It's a replica of a MUCH older building. i know of the church in the da vinci code with the 'rose line' and whatnot, he was saying it was a different one entirely, im not saying I believe him or anything. With regards to the da vinci code church and 'rose line' i think that has been debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 They just did it again for that silver medalist figure skater... I guess it depends on the issue on how outraged we get over a bill for one person on the democratic leadership side... Exactly my point, it isn't the "stupidist" thing our government has done by a long shot. But again, IF 3 billion people believe he was alive in one form or another, I think the Prove he existed is out of line in a courtroom... I never said it wasn't, but bear, please don't use majority as a justification for being right. Not only is it illogical, it is also one of the problems with society, and it has been since the advent of civilization. i could give countless examples, but I think you know where that would head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 At the risk of getting off topic, I'll make just one comment. It's more than a little bit misguided (wrong? dangerous? any number of words fit here) to believe your position is the "only true and just one." I never once stated that was how I think, but I put the reasoning down as to why it is done. Just as your side believes you are right, you always have to use modifiers, or sensationalistic adjectives to describe your opponents. Librals do not do that, for the most part, because they believe their argument will stand on the merits on the argument itself. The post was not meant to mean that my position is the only true and just position, but to give a discription as to not only why they fail to use modifiers when describing the right, but also the thought process behind it. More to the point, I wasn't aware that the existence of Jesus as historical figure was up for debate. That is because in your circles, it is not. God is not up for debat in your eyes either, but there are others who look at the world differently. It doesn;t make either side right, but it also does not mean that he definately existed by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, and Thiebear (I believe you were the one who made the comment) Allah and God are one and the same. Are they "one and the same" or are they "not the same"? 100% wrong. The Christian God is not the same as Islam god allah. Who is right prophet or dfitzo??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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