Senate GOP to push to end Iraq war

[chomerics]

n a sign of increasing unease among congressional Republicans over the war in Iraq, the Senate is to consider on Tuesday a Republican proposal that calls for Iraqi forces to take the lead next year in securing the nation and for the Bush administration to lay out its strategy for ending the war, The NEW YORK TIMES will splash on page ones Tuesday. Excerpts.

The proposal from Sen. Bill Frist, the majority leader, and Sen. John W. Warner, R-Va., and chairman of the Armed Services Committee, also requires the Bush administration to provide extensive new quarterly reports to Congress on subjects like progress in bringing in other countries to help stabilize Iraq.

The plan, which will be debated as part of a Pentagon policy measure that also contains new limits on the legal rights of terror detainees, stops short of a competing Democratic proposal that moves toward establishing dates for a phased withdrawal of troops from Iraq. But it is built upon the Democratic approach and makes it clear that senators of both parties are increasingly eager for Iraqis to take control of their own country in coming months and open the door to removing American troops.

Warner said the underlying message was, "we really mean business, Iraqis, get on with it." The senator, an influential party voice on military issues, said he did not interpret the wording of his plan as critical of the administration, describing it as a "forward-looking" proposal.

"It is not a question of satisfaction or dissatisfaction," he said. "This reflects what has to be done."

source

Well see what happens in the morning, but yet more revolt and splitting in the ranks of republicans.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Chomerics, you doing the Chad Johnson jig now?

[chomerics]

Chomerics, you doing the Chad Johnson jig now?

:laugh:

I just hope this is true. It is from a left wing hack site, but they said it will be front page news on the NYTimes tomorrow. . . we'll just have to wait and see.

As for the jig, I'll do it the second the last troop is back home. . . hell I'll even videotape it and put it up on ES for the whole world to see :laugh:

[Spaceman Spiff]

:laugh:

I just hope this is true. It is from a left wing hack site, but they said it will be front page news on the NYTimes tomorrow. . . we'll just have to wait and see.

As for the jig, I'll do it the second the last troop is back home. . . hell I'll even videotape it and put it up on ES for the whole world to see :laugh:

That should be a show :laugh:

And at least you can admit when your source is a left wing hack site

[luckydevil]

Hope it's true

[Burgold]

On the Today show this morning, Frist said that what the Repubs are demanding are monthly accountings of progress in Iraq to Congress. No timetables, no landmarks to be reached. He then said the Democrats are also proposing this morning a "cut and run" strategy. Basically, Frist indicated they want a proposal that does nothing, imposes no limits, presents no guidelines, and completely endorses that status quo... as long as they get briefed.

[Larry]

Must just be my cynical nature, but when I see a bill, associated with Frist's name, calling for quarterly progress reports, the thought that comes to mind is "earnings statement".

[airborneskins]

I don't think that the Iraqi forces are ready to take control. If that happens you will see a revolt in the country faster than you can blink your eye. They are not ready, YET. I do feel as thought hey can slowly start taking control, but to pull out our forces in the near future would be disastrous.

[wskin44]

I suspect that it's a little early to expect Iraqi troops to cover our backs as we withdraw. There are many, including McCain, who believe that we need more U.S. troops there, not less. Obviously there are many areas we don't have the manpower to control. Attacks on our troops are happening from those areas. An undermanned force is costing American lives.

Frist is full of it. The Congress has the responsibility to oversee the war. They have been giving the Administration a pass for two years. Now suddenly they want to know what's going on? Senators like McCain and Biden have been saying forever that the reports from the Pentagon have been pie in the sky. Suddenly Frist is on to it? B.S. He is just playing politics because the polls show that the voters are getting fed up.

[Larry]

Well, I'd really like to see the situation, when we withdraw, where the Iraqi people trust their new government and their security forces.

OTOH, I don't see that as likely any time soon. And I don't think they trust us a whole lot, either, so it's not that big a loss if they don't trust the new army, either.

[@DCGoldPants]

Of course they're not ready.

This is going to get sticky. Because, the admin can get up there and say how many Iraqi forces are trained and ready to take over, as long as they don't really need to!

Remember when the number coming from the White House was over 100K? Then that number didn't jive with the Pentagon, or the Senate. Everybody had a different figure.

[Larry]

I suspect that it's a little early to expect Iraqi troops to cover our backs as we withdraw. There are many, including McCain, who believe that we need more U.S. troops there, not less. Obviously there are many areas we don't have the manpower to control. Attacks on our troops are happening from those areas. An undermanned force is costing American lives.

Frist is full of it. The Congress has the responsibility to oversee the war. They have been giving the Administration a pass for two years. Now suddenly they want to know what's going on? Senators like McCain and Biden have been saying forever that the reports from the Pentagon have been pie in the sky. Suddenly Frist is on to it? B.S. He is just playing politics because the polls show that the voters are getting fed up.

Oh, I agree.

I think Frist is doing this because he's noticed that McCain is getting publicity and traction with his torture ammendment.

I don't really have even a biased opinion on which to base a judgment of Warner, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the two names in this article are both thinking about running for President.

[wskin44]

Oh, I agree.

I think Frist is doing this because he's noticed that McCain is getting publicity and traction with his torture ammendment.

I don't really have even a biased opinion on which to base a judgment of Warner, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the two names in this article are both thinking about running for President.

You're not getting the Republican U.S. Senator from VA, John Warner mixed up with the Democratic Gov. of VA, Mark Warner are you?

[stevenaa]

The democrats would love to cut and run and see the country implode. Then they could claim a victory in a situation they are to blame for undermining. That is the status quo.

[gbear]

stevenaa,

I'm a little confused at your logic. How did you get from A)the Senate (controled by Republicans) has agreed to consider a plan put forth by a republican to B)your conclussion that the Dems want us to cut and run and they want Iraq to implode. I obviously missed a step in your logic. Care to fill me in? I might need a map to get from that point a to that point B. It just came across as a random "I hate Dems post." Was there more?

[Burgold]

The scariest part to me is the inferenence that Even Senate Republicans think that the current administration has been faulty or negligent in its sharing or the quality of its intel... even to Congress... even to its own members of Congress. Frist said in the Today interview, that they don't really know what's going on... that there are great accomplishments in Iraq in terms of schools and health center construction, but the word ain't getting out... even to them. That the Republican leadership in Congress feel like the Administration has failed in its duty to report accurately or thoroughly to the degree that they want to pass an ammendment forcing how intel is shared may actually say a lot.

[jbooma]

:laugh:

I just hope this is true. It is from a left wing hack site, but they said it will be front page news on the NYTimes tomorrow. . . we'll just have to wait and see.

As for the jig, I'll do it the second the last troop is back home. . . hell I'll even videotape it and put it up on ES for the whole world to see :laugh:

It is true but kind of sad the dems couldn't think of it first, brilliant by the repubs

[Burgold]

except that the dems are proposing something on same day. It's news when the repubs do it because it is more surprising and sounds like an act of no or diminishing faith.

Come to think of it didn't the Dems close the doors of the Senate one day to demand accountability and stop the stonewalling?

[Redskins Diehard]

:laugh:

I just hope this is true. It is from a left wing hack site, but they said it will be front page news on the NYTimes tomorrow. . . we'll just have to wait and see.

You already acknowledged you got it from a left wing hack site...who cares if they put it on the cover of the print edition tomorrow?

[chomerics]

You already acknowledged you got it from a left wing hack site...who cares if they put it on the cover of the print edition tomorrow?

Ummmm, I was saying where the information came from. . . as in they got a scoop. This story was not reporting "bad evil repubilcans", they were reporting there was a push from the GOP to close down Iraq. . . a good thing :doh:

[gbear]

Ah come on Chom, the NYtimes could tell them the sky is blue, and they would say "it can't be true. The Nytimes said it and everybody know they're just a liberal rag."

[webnarc]

I don't think that the Iraqi forces are ready to take control. If that happens you will see a revolt in the country faster than you can blink your eye. They are not ready, YET. I do feel as thought hey can slowly start taking control, but to pull out our forces in the near future would be disastrous.

Actually, it sounds like they are ready to pick up where Saddam left off.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/15/iraq.main/index.html

Iraq official acknowledges new detainee abuse

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 Posted: 1700 GMT (0100 HKT)

"I saw signs of physical abuse by brutal beating -- one or two cases were paralyzed, and some cases of skin peeled off various parts of the body," the official, Hussein Kamal, told CNN.

"I have never seen such a situation like this during the past two years in Baghdad. This is the worst and cannot be denied."

Kamal blamed a lack of jail cells in Iraq.

"A major problem we face is that there are not enough places to contain these detainees after the preliminary investigation is through with them," he said.

The U.S. military found the detainees Sunday when they entered a building controlled by the ministry while looking for a missing 15-year-old boy.

Brig. Gen. Karl Horst of the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division said Monday the prisoners were found "in need of medical care -- so I brought medics in."

Kamal said the facility housed 161 detainees. "There were other registered names in that facility who were interrogated by the Special Investigation Unit, then sent to court," he said.

The U.S. military did not confirm the condition in which they found the detainees, but Iraqi police said they had been tortured. Kamal confirmed human rights abuses had taken place.

He added that the ministry cannot deny "knowledge of previous abuse cases where human rights were broken during the past two years."

The U.S. military has taken charge of the building and the detainees, he said.

Horst said Monday he had brought in a legal team to go through the detainees' files and a joint U.S.-Iraqi investigation was under way.

[Larry]

Ummmm, I was saying where the information came from. . . as in they got a scoop. This story was not reporting "bad evil repubilcans", they were reporting there was a push from the GOP to close down Iraq. . . a good thing :doh:

I think his point is "I've discovered that a liberal has been somewhere near this story, therefore I can just ignore it".

[airborneskins]

Actually, it sounds like they are ready to pick up where Saddam left off.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/15/iraq.main/index.html

Precisely why we cannot leave yet.

[NavyDave]

Its one thing if this is only a periodic feedback or staus report and not underming the primary goal which is victory and democracy in Iraq.

And yes the democrats are hoping for defeat, they still revise the original Iraq War (Bush didnt finish the job) when everyone with a brain knew the alliance only wanted Saddam pushed back into Iraq otherwise there wouldn't have been an alliance.

And back in 1991 Iraq was needed as a buffer between Kuwait and Iran who looked at Saudi and Kuwait at the time as being too liberal along the same lines as I see frisco, oregon and seattle today.