Okay, I think I got this Islam thing figured out.

[Mad Mike]

Who, you?

Whatever dude. This idiot has been spewing anti american propaganda worthy of an al Quada information officer. Maybe you don't have a problem with claiming moral equivalence between al Quada and the US; I do.

[webnarc]

Whatever dude. This idiot has been spewing anti american propaganda worthy of an al Quada information officer. Maybe you don't have a problem with claiming moral equivalence between al Quada and the US; I do.

But he isn't doing that, I've yet to hear him a moral equivalent between the US and al Quada; I hear him drawing it between the actions of the present administration and al Quada, and he's right, but he isn't making this claim of you as an American.

You have big issues with anyone who takes offence with the actions of Bush. You share this characteristic with a number of people on this board and 10000's around the country and world, but you have little concept of the scope. Not even half your country agrees with you anymore, so maybe 5% of the world does, that's a lot of people who disagree with the actions of Bush, yet you don't see it or their opinions as being worth anything more than a :doh:. There is nothing wrong with this, but calling for the ban of someone you view as being ignorant is ridiculous under these circumstances.

[Mad Mike]

But he isn't doing that, I've yet to hear him a moral equivalent between the US and al Quada; I hear him drawing it between the actions of the present administration and al Quada, and he's right, but he isn't making this claim of you as an American.

You have big issues with anyone who takes offence with the actions of Bush. You share this characteristic with a number of people on this board and 10000's around the country and world, but you have little concept of the scope. Not even half your country agrees with you anymore, so maybe 5% of the world does, that's a lot of people who disagree with the actions of Bush, yet you don't see it or their opinions as being worth anything more than a :doh:. There is nothing wrong with this, but calling for the ban of someone you view as being ignorant is ridiculous under these circumstances.

Dude. Having issues with Bush is one thing, but if you think Bush and his administration is a moral equivalent of al Quada, you're a moron.

[Sarge]

I'm still trying to figure out where the sane, moderate Christian world is.

Remember World War 11. The Nazi army was a Christian army, wasn't it? Oh, you forgot. Well, child. The Vatican received a cut of every Nazi's paycheck. Remember now? Remember Mussolini. Yea, him. The guy at confession. And then, of course, there's Nixon and Bush.

Who would Jesus bomb?-- thought for the day.

Umm, Nazi's weren't Christians

[PokerPacker]

didn't nazi's hate religion, because it drew loyalty away from the government?

[chomerics]

Whatever dude. This idiot has been spewing anti american propaganda worthy of an al Quada information officer. Maybe you don't have a problem with claiming moral equivalence between al Quada and the US; I do.

Yes, just like you Mike, right out of neoconservative (as well as fascist) camp. Supress the opinion of other people that have a different viewpoint then you

[chomerics]

didn't nazi's hate religion, because it drew loyalty away from the government?

It depends on what you are talking about. The Nazi Party oficially sponsered religion and used it in many of their propaganda speeches. It was instrumental in the rise of Hitler. As for Hitler himself, he was not religious, he just knew how to use it to get the reaction form the masses.

[PokerPacker]

It depends on what you are talking about. The Nazi Party oficially sponsered religion and used it in many of their propaganda speeches. It was instrumental in the rise of Hitler. As for Hitler himself, he was not religious, he just knew how to use it to get the reaction form the masses.

hmm, this sounds familiar, (Osama bin Laden)

[dfitzo53]

The Christians crusaders now attacking Iraq may also be considered similar to Al Queda in that they are improperly equiped by the great Christian leader in the WH.

If I'm going to defend the vast majority of Muslims as peace-loving people, I have to do the same for Christians here. Your posts are way off base.

[chomerics]

If I'm going to defend the vast majority of Muslims as peace-loving people, I have to do the same for Christians here. Your posts are way off base.

I agree totally, I missed that one earlier in the thread.

[Mad Mike]

It depends on what you are talking about. The Nazi Party oficially sponsered religion and used it in many of their propaganda speeches. It was instrumental in the rise of Hitler. As for Hitler himself, he was not religious, he just knew how to use it to get the reaction form the masses.

Hmmmm. Sounds like someone else we know as well...

U.S.S. Cole Bombing, October 12, 2000

"[iraqis] should intensify struggle and jihad in all fields and by all means..."

Iraq TV, October 22, 2000 (State-controlled)

"[september 11 was] God's punishment."

Al-Iktisadi, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

Begins with an S.....

"Will the concerned Arabs ever know that the enemy understands ? Our enemy understands but will the other concerned Arabs ever realized that the enemy is serious ? Are those who are directly involved in games of politics serious enough over what is a national and honorable ( issue ) ? Are they capable of protecting their sanctities now that the Zionists are openly insulting the messenger of mercy and virtue, the Prophet Mohammed ( may peace be upon him ) and are seizing his place of flight , the holy Quds ?"

Come on, You know who it is. :laugh:

[Mad Mike]

Yes, just like you Mike, right out of neoconservative (as well as fascist) camp. Supress the opinion of other people that have a different viewpoint then you

That's right, because the evil neocons are supressing free speech huh?

:laugh:

And asking that the discussions on an internet message board not contain support for an enemy who would kill us all, that's facism, right? Because god knows we dont agree and I've suggested you be banned how many times?

How about you take your righteous indignation over to DU where they proudly wave the "fascist" banner...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

"Who is Welcome on Democratic Underground, and Who is Not

Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."

[Johnny Punani2]

Anyone who tries to use a person's physical appearance as a basis for supporting them politically is a certified idiot.

crazyhorse you fit the bill...

Anyway back to the topic,

While I disagree with some of the teachings of Islam I don't think all Muslims are bad people. However, I do think there is a serious problem in Islamic culture in reguards to terrorism and violence and the seemingly laissez faire attitude over it. I see only a small minority with very narrow and radical political views talking for and leading the broader Muslim population. It's a dangerous mix of religion and totalitarianism. The people in power use religion to control the masses. They also use it to further their own political aspirations. A perfect example of this is the call for martyrs by radical leaders. They falsely use this religious sacrifice as a tool to further a political aspiration. A martyr is someone who dies in the defense of their religion not someone who dies to further a political cause.

[chomerics]

Hmmmm. Sounds like someone else we know as well...

No, only you would place a quote from a secular leader who abhored radical Islam as using Islam as propaganda to obtain power. You truly haven't a clue as to what Iraq was, who Saddam Hussen was, and how he operated, your ignorance of diplomacy shows in your post.

[chomerics]

That's right, because the evil neocons are supressing free speech huh?

:laugh:

No, because you want to ban somebody who disagrees with you. Do you deny that you want to ban him??? You were the one who posted that fascist crap.

:finger:

Someone ban this idiot.

Hell, can you even debate a single topic? Do you agree that banning people based on their ideology IS fascist? No, you will just continue to ignore everything, bury your head in the sand, pop up once in a while say Saddam was behind 9-11 and think you're right. Maybe one day you will actually debate a topic, but instead, all you feeble and infantile rants prove is that you have absolutely no point. This is whay your argument has been reduced to . . . Hey everyone, don't believe him, believe a right wing fruitcake who has been wrong on every single point he has argued for in the past 5 years.

Man, I used to think people like you were a figment of the tin foil hat crowd, but unfortunately they were right. . . You should be real proud.

[hoskins]

OMG, anybody who actually believes that Islam is a religion of peace needs to take a couple of months and read the koran, and then read the hadith. Start with Bukhari, because that's the one 90% of Muslims believe in.

And then go observe some of the internet boards like ummah.com and see how peaceful people are there.

And if you aren't white, go hang out in a mosque for a few Fridays and see what they talk about. Make sure you ask people to translate the arabic and urdu conversations. It won't work if you're white, I've taken white friends to mosque and everybody changes. Nobody dares to talk about death to jews and bringing down the great satan and how christians are the workers of Satan when white people are around.

There are two groups of "peaceful" Muslims. Those who have never taken to time to study their own religion. These are the neighbors down the street. That number is dwindling because people have more access to information now and Imams are getting bolder about teaching this stuff.

The other group are Muslims who know the goal of Islam is to re-establish the caliphate. And they know that beheading and all that are absolutely sanctioned by their religion. And they know that the age of PEACE in Islam is AFTER they've taken over the world and subjugated or converted everyone AS IS COMMANDED IN THE KORAN. And they know that violent jihad is a requirement of Islam, but they are just too chicken s*** to do anything about it personally. And so they just blend in.

Go buy a koran. Read the WHOLE thing. Not just the nice poetry in the beginning. Not just the nice sounding little catch phrases your Muslim buddy shows you. Read the whole thing. Then read as much Bukhari as you can stomach. Warning: Some of the Bukhari stuff is NASTY. Again, don't just read the 10% of nice stuff your Muslim buddy shows you. Read the other 90% (or as much as you can handle). It will wake you up.

[hoskins]

Another experiment: Go to mosque on Friday. Again, make SURE you get good translations of any arabic and urdu you hear. Then go to any mainstream protestant or Catholic church on Sunday. Compare the sermons. And then tell me you still think religions are all on the same moral plane.

If you're able to do this, try the same experiment in Europe or Asia for much greater effect.

[chomerics]

Go buy a koran. Read the WHOLE thing. Not just the nice poetry in the beginning. Not just the nice sounding little catch phrases your Muslim buddy shows you. Read the whole thing. Then read as much Bukhari as you can stomach. Warning: Some of the Bukhari stuff is NASTY. Again, don't just read the 10% of nice stuff your Muslim buddy shows you. Read the other 90% (or as much as you can handle). It will wake you up.

I've read it and as already pointed out, the Old Testament is quite similar in the fire and brimstone approach.

For you to profess that it IS a religion of hate shows your OWN hatred.

[chomerics]

Another experiment: Go to mosque on Friday. Again, make SURE you get good translations of any arabic and urdu you hear. Then go to any mainstream protestant or Catholic church on Sunday. Compare the sermons. And then tell me you still think religions are all on the same moral plane.

Well, there are a NUMBER of Muslim posters here, and one of them have stated that they are preaching hate in their Mosques. Why do you hate Muslims so much? Did one beat you up and take your lunch money as a kid?

[dreamingwolf]

chomo you gotta tell me why you defend islam but not christianity? Really, you attack christians at the drop of a hat. But when it comes to islam you fight tooth and nail for them it seems. I would expect more consistancy and equal hate for all those who worship the invisible.

So why do you have a crusade to bring down organized christrianity, but not organized islam?

dont get your panties in a wad over this question Im not calling you a terrorist supporter, but I am curious to why you have such a negitive stance to one organized religion but not to all?

[Sarge]

I've read it and as already pointed out, the Old Testament is quite similar in the fire and brimstone approach.

For you to profess that it IS a religion of hate shows your OWN hatred.

Problem is more and more of the radicals subscribe to the direct teachings now, unlike Christians who don't go for the literal "eye for an eye" thing anymore.

(That was you saying in all the other threads that George Bush has created more radicals, wasn't it?)

If you take to koran literally, what you get is exactly what hoskins describes.

[Sarge]

chomo you gotta tell me why you defend islam but not christianity? Really, you attack christians at the drop of a hat. But when it comes to islam you fight tooth and nail for them it seems. I would expect more consistancy and equal hate for all those who worship the invisible.

So why do you have a crusade to bring down organized christrianity, but not organized islam?

dont get your panties in a wad over this question Im not calling you a terrorist supporter, but I am curious to why you have such a negitive stance to one organized religion but not to all?

Because Christianity is what this country was built on, and since the country is so bad and is the root cause of all evil in the world, the religion it was built on must be part of the problem, right?

[hoskins]

Well, there are a NUMBER of Muslim posters here, and one of them have stated that they are preaching hate in their Mosques. Why do you hate Muslims so much? Did one beat you up and take your lunch money as a kid?

Lunch money? Try something just a little more valuable. And I was Muslim at the time. I was a Muslim for 25 years. 18 years outside of this country. You have NO idea what you're talking about. You haven't lived it.

Which translations of the koran have you read? Bukhari? Ever visit family members and have them say "Fantastic!, the way they finally hit those buggers in New York".

[hoskins]

Sorry to get so riled up about this, but it's frustrating when people who grew up in cushy lives in the west want to have this "see no evil" attitude. There is evil in the world. And the thing about Islam is it kills and hurts MANY more people in other countries than it does in the US. And yes, we're lucky to be here and be insulated from it except for 9/11, but that doesn't mean we should lie to ourselves and say we don't need to help fight evil in the world.

[Sarge]

Lunch money? Try something just a little more valuable. And I was Muslim at the time. I was a Muslim for 25 years. 18 years outside of this country. You have NO idea what you're talking about. You haven't lived it.

Which translations of the koran have you read? Bukhari? Ever visit family members and have them say "Fantastic!, the way they finally hit those buggers in New York".

I know you haven't been here long, so welcome aboard.

Just wanted to let you know that your own life experiences don't mean much to Chom, because he knows everything, despite what you've lived.

Hell, he's been telling me for years that clinton didn't gut the military in the 90's, all based on his experiences as a military brat years ago :laugh: